Features for trimming

[Valkrionn]

Things I want gone

Worker XP
Ranged attack for bow units/gargoyles- keep it for siege/naval
minor trait
fort commanders
hawks

Worker XP -> Can be made a game option easily, which Ahwaric already suggested.
Ranged -> Really? That's one of the features most people like... And Xienwolf is working on fixing it to prevent it causing OOS's.
Minor Trait -> You share Opera's feeling there.
Fort Commanders -> Half gone already, next patch. The improvement itself will generate culture... Commanders are just there to allow you (and the AI, more importantly) to defend the fort.
Hawks -> Most people agree there, myself included.

 

[arstal]

Worker XP -> Can be made a game option easily, which Ahwaric already suggested.
Ranged -> Really? That's one of the features most people like... And Xienwolf is working on fixing it to prevent it causing OOS's.
Minor Trait -> You share Opera's feeling there.
Fort Commanders -> Half gone already, next patch. The improvement itself will generate culture... Commanders are just there to allow you (and the AI, more importantly) to defend the fort.
Hawks -> Most people agree there, myself included.

My main reason for disliking ranged is the Guardians and barbarians having it.

I don't want it gone completely, just from tier 1 archers (pre-Longbowmen) and the Guardian (who should spawn Iron Golems instead of Gargoyles perhaps, or a unique unit?)

 

[Valkrionn]

Ah, the Guardian... Yeah, doing something different there for my own mod. Merged in Cyther's Leash system, so I can tie a unit to a set range around a plot, and am now leashing them to 5 tiles from the Pass. If you can kill them all, you are allowed to claim the Pass as a super-fort.

 

[Schwarzbart]

This sound like a great Idea Valkrion

 

[Valkrionn]

Actually, just finished testing it.

 

[Fluesterwitz]

Also, how about allowing workers mountaineer promotion? That would make a change...

So, workers could enter mountains and build roads? What would happen if an enemy commando unit with ranged attack ability entered the tile and destoyed the road?

 

[Ahwaric]

So, workers could enter mountains and build roads? What would happen if an enemy commando unit with ranged attack ability entered the tile and destoyed the road?

Roads, but also mines. I have yet to chck, but I do not think units can enter mountains without special promotion, even if following a road. But even if so, they can just leave the tile they can no longer enter.

In next Orbis version, all recon units will be able to enter mountains. That should be nice replacement for hawks. I also think of nerfing base strength of higher tier recon units - while scouts are still ok, rangers got ability to use metal weapons. So, I should either disallow metal weapons again (but at least assassins should be able to use these, don't you think) or lower their base strength to maintain balance.

I have added mountaineer promotion that requires guerilla I and allows entering mountains. No other bonuses for now, but will probably add bonus to attack & defense in peaks.
Also, dwarven racial promotion allows entering mountains.
Even without any promotion workers can build improvements on peaks (well, only mines as other are not allowed... and yes, mines and not quatrries for peaks). But I think only mechanos zeppelin can carry them there.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Having a road on a Peak tile would not give units the ability to pass through it.

There are currently blocks hardcoded in the DLL stopping workers from building improvements on Peaks, but they can still build Roads there. There are also blocks stopping peaks from having any resources or yields when a new map is generated regardless of how you change the xml. You can however still ause worldbuilder or python to add bonuses, improvements, yields (python only), etc.

 

[Valkrionn]

Those blocks aren't in Orbis anymore.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I think allowing all recon to cross mountains is too much.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Oh, nice. I tried removing them from my version a few difference times, but tended to mess something else up in the process.


Letting all recon units or all Dwarves move through peaks does seem like too much. I think it would be better to just allow recon units to purchase the Mountaineer promotion, and let Dwarves get special permission to purchase the promotion (and probably the Guerilla promotions too) regardless of unitcombat.

 

[Opera]

But aren't Dwarves already able to do that...?

 

[scutarii]

speaking of access to peaks, do not forget paratroopers, angels finally get a chance to demonstrate that their wings are more than rudiments, and at the top of peak even blinds should get sentryIII promo...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Are they? I know they aren't in ummodded FfH, but I haven't had time to play Orbis (or really any Civ IV, although I have played by slightly modded FF some) recently.

 

[Bootsiuv]

But aren't Dwarves already able to do that...?

I don't think MC plays Orbis. When I first started playing it I almost couldn't help but feel that the ability to cross mountains made the dwarves slightly OP.

I like the change to recon units....when I played as Khazad I would have almost the entire map explored by the second century . You can use the mountain chains on an erebus map to be invulnerable to attack and have a great line of sight. I'm used to it at this point, and dwarves would be weird without the ability, but it's nice other civs will have access to this type of exploration now.

Regarding metal weapons for the recon line, my vote is that they shouldn't be allowed metal weapons (assassins could be an exception, that seems ok). I think metal is thrown around a little too much in orbis, and detracts too much from the melee line.

 

[Ahwaric]

I think allowing all recon to cross mountains is too much.

Why? It is not that unbalanced, and makes recon more distinct. Not to mention removing of birds...

But aren't Dwarves already able to do that...?

They are and did anyone complain? Now it will be less racialy restricted. I think proposed worker change has more impact.

Those blocks aren't in Orbis anymore.

Yes, peaks are no longer considered impassable in dll, but I have blocked some things manually. So they can't be settled (before I blocked that back dwarves liked that option and once summoned basium to one of such cities... ) or entered unless allowed.
But I still set base yields to 0 for peaks. I do not think it really matters what kind of terrrain is below, the climate at peaks is always simillar. Also, no resources are generated on game start for peaks, but that is just xml thing. And only mines are bpeaksmakevalid improvement.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Letting mere Scouts cross Peaks seems like too much to me, and will make early exploration too easy. I liked FfH better back when Rangers and Beastmasters could cross peaks, and will almost certainly go back to that in my version.

If the ability of recon units to cross peaks is being added to compensate for the loss of the ability to carry birds, then i think it should only apply to those recon units that currently can carry birds (Hunters, Rangers, Beastmasters, Druids).

 

[Ahwaric]

Actually, that is why I asked. My bottomline are rangers, beastmasters and druids able to enter peaks.

I do not feel that good with assassins and shadows. They are too much suited for city life

Scouts - I think I might agree.

That leaves hunters...

 

[Bootsiuv]

If scouts can't cross mountains, then dwarves will remain the ultimate explorers IMO, at least on the erebus mapscript. Not that it's particularly powerful, but, for whatever reason, it doesn't seem to fit that well flavorwise. I don't recall much in the Lore about dwarves being great explorers (more the opposite IIRC, as in isolated from the rest of the world in their mountain cities).

 

[Ahwaric]

Have I mentioned that mountains now cost +3 movement points? So no single unit will be able to move more than one peak tile per turn. Only travel through hills ut finishing turn in mountains can be fast & safe...
So yes, they are quite safe (should change that, true... lizards?), but elves wll explore faster.
Or hippus once they get horse units.