Features for trimming

[Opera]

I know. Looking forward to do it

Remember that you can always ask the player base to give you some help for this Especially if they play much more than you.

Yeah, it needs some extra stuff. Currently it is in quite raw state. But I did add a lot of things compared to BtS, trust me

Oh, yeah, I guess so. A few raw thoughts on it: it comes too late and is quite out of the way... Poisons is a really hard tech to get early; Spy specialists/GP should come back!; we could use Spies with Influence Driven War... they could spread influence as a new mission.

[Casts bless on opera]

Did you see my thread about reworking it? I don't remember you posting in it

They go into the wild and look for ore veins/promising new plants and animals. And then dig/start breeding program. There is no magic in it, it happens every day here too.
Prospecting and breeding are hardly overpowered now (it is quite hard to find a proper spot for the spells to be castable)

Yeah... Well... I don't like the idea, but I will give it some more tries in the future

Also, worker xp and forts will stay. I like these too. But maybe some streamlining on forts could help... ?

First, you could make the whole mechanic a DLL thing rather than a python one. I'm not sure how they work right now but I'm pretty certain it could be easily ported into the DLL.

Ok, done.

Thanks

 

[Dominicius]

The reason why Scions are overpowerd is because of the +2 hammer&gold bonus they get from haunted lands. Remove that and they should be balanced.

Edit: The other alternative is to make haunted lands much, MUCH harder to get. Having such a huge bonus attached to such a low hammer cost building is really flawed.

 

[scutarii]

The reason why Scions are overpowerd is because of the +2 hammer&gold bonus they get from haunted lands. Remove that and they should be balanced.

Edit: The other alternative is to make haunted lands much, MUCH harder to get. Having such a huge bonus attached to such a low hammer cost building is really flawed.

or since haunted lands are actually haunting, (Ninja smiley ain't appropriate but at least ninjas move like ghosts, right?) there should be a chance that resources are wiped out. overall, cut haunted land bonuses by half, increase unhealthiness penalties, remove "goodboy" castable bonuses from scions: bless, valor, courage, etc.

 

[Rosetint]

I play a ton of Scions and, yes, they are very strong early on. However, they can get screwed relatively easily if you can't get ready access to another civ to attack and produce Reborn.

The major reason they are so good is the haunted lands bonus, but rather than remove or nerf it, I like the idea of making it harder to get haunted lands. The Temple of the Gift is what makes this possible. Another thread was talking about how the Emperor as a leader is clearly inferior to Korinna because he is Agnostic. Perhaps the best thing to do would be to restrict access to Temple of the Gift and their priests to the Emperor or players without a religion. If that is too nasty, you could always make the temple only convert the 8 square immediately around the city. Both of these would force the player to use Reaching Creepers to get the rest of their haunted lands.

 

[Belizan]

Scions spread like weeds, they get superior defensive units, and because they have no need for food, have vastly improved production. The Scion war machine is more then sufficient to murder any nearby player or spread fast enough to gain an unimpeachable lead in tech production in the event no nearby player can be found. They love all features, because food is irrelevent to them--haunted lands are just "extra" bonus. I can easily crush my neighbors under a metric ton of swordsman and javelineers (whatever their pseudo Roman names are again) in the early game without ever seeing a haunted land square. Their modified light house and fishing villages make even their port cities very powerful.

Once they start capturing enemy cities... Well, it's all over. I like to use the Scions as bad guys. We usually create the evil Scion empire bad guy in our games. Risen Emperor and Korina typically, although I think Publius is the most powerful of the three. I have not bothered to play them extensively, everything is just a bit too easy for them :/.

That being said, I don't think it's particularly a big deal. Having factions with differing power levels allows one to choose their difficulty both in terms of their own faction as well as the factions they will face. Elves will kick your *** in exploration. Any faction you team with Lanun will tech well. And so on.

If you are curious, though, our "can't play list" is Doviello, Grigori and Scions in that order. You have to actually play the game to win as the Scions. Doviello and Grigori can just win on heroes 8).

 

[Valkrionn]

Firstly, moving the Fort Culture into DLL isn't hard... It's already done in a modcomp, allows a new improvement tag for culture. I'd add it to Enclaves too, actually. I believe there's a link in the FFPlus Ideas thread.

Second, the Scions are stronger in Orbis. Korinna was NOT designed to have access to the Emperor's Cult... She gets normal religions instead. And the Temple of the Gift is not supposed to generate HL. It's supposed to be Redactors mainly, Ghostwalkers to a lesser extent... Recently FF added a passive system but it is still based on those units.

 

[sputnik323]

play list amongst my friends (we play 2-4 player IP games a lot).

How the hell do you get 4 playerS? what are your settings??? I have tried so many times to get a game without OOS problems, they just never go away!

 

[Ahwaric]

Second, the Scions are stronger in Orbis. Korinna was NOT designed to have access to the Emperor's Cult... She gets normal religions instead. And the Temple of the Gift is not supposed to generate HL. It's supposed to be Redactors mainly, Ghostwalkers to a lesser extent... Recently FF added a passive system but it is still based on those units.

I did not like that all spreading had to be done manually. But I will keep the current system, but probably limit temple HL spread to 8 tiles around the city. Rest will require creeper/blighter.
Also, I thought that Korrina should have access to the cult. I do not think it is really that powerfull, and if I have to choice, for flavour reasons I would probably make her agnostic. Publius is a better candidate for religious non-believer (in emperor cult sense). I see him as a senator of old Patrian republic that does not entirelly agree with the cult.

I can easily crush my neighbors under a metric ton of swordsman and javelineers (whatever their pseudo Roman names are again)

Hey, that are actually roman names Took me some time to research all of them. The terminology comes from before marcius reforms, and hastati were the youngest, first line of troops, principes were the second, a core one, and triari were elite veterans that were used in dire need. Same for velites (javeliners) - auxiliaries.

everything is just a bit too easy for them :/.
That being said, I don't think it's particularly a big deal.

I do. If civ is to strong to be challengew in playing, it is not fun. So, I decided to at least reduce HL bonuses in the next patch. Any other suggestions?

Risen Emperor and Korina typically, although I think Publius is the most powerful of the three.

I think Korina is not that strong. Both Publius and Emperor get her as a hero and she is much better than emperor - comes early and that is great. I do not think
Publis might be a part of bigger problem. I need to change how civs work. And also, really need to find a way for things like special yields (and not just buildings/units) carry over for tolerant leaders. Together with including fallow into civ characteristics rather than trait it would make only scion cities under publis not require food. Anyone volounteers for coding the above?

If you are curious, though, our "can't play list" is Doviello, Grigori and Scions in that order. You have to actually play the game to win as the Scions. Doviello and Grigori can just win on heroes 8).

Looks like Lucian needs to say goodbye to his hero promotion. Will probably change it to adventurer.
No idea how to change grigori, they seemed quite ok. But could be scary in human hands...

Firstly, moving the Fort Culture into DLL isn't hard... It's already done in a modcomp, allows a new improvement tag for culture. I'd add it to Enclaves too, actually. I believe there's a link in the FFPlus Ideas thread.

You mean CultureControl by Jeckel? It is already in (not released yet), just tweaking it to suit fort commanders. And it resists... Some changes will come with it, too.
Also, I was quite disappointed to find that it is not a real culture, added each turn, but culture control, a kind of border enforcment, but overwritten by normal culture. A bit like current fort commander enforcement, but still, more flexible and in dll, not python.

How the hell do you get 4 playerS? what are your settings??? I have tried so many times to get a game without OOS problems, they just never go away!

I would like to know that, too Have to do something with OOS at some point.


Regarding the original topic, I will probably make Alcinus be a bit more controllable. Also, will never go to another civ. If captured, he will always join scions.
But I also think of making him only AI conbtrolled most of the time, not a betrayer.
Better spell is probably needed. It is as someone called, a mini-game to gather all councilors for a mediocre benefit.
Still not sure about Melante...

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

FF 051 patch C is gonna have a new scion worldspell, although I have no idea right now what it does.

 

[Valkrionn]

I did not like that all spreading had to be done manually. But I will keep the current system, but probably limit temple HL spread to 8 tiles around the city. Rest will require creeper/blighter.
Also, I thought that Korrina should have access to the cult. I do not think it is really that powerfull, and if I have to choice, for flavour reasons I would probably make her agnostic. Publius is a better candidate for religious non-believer (in emperor cult sense). I see him as a senator of old Patrian republic that does not entirelly agree with the cult.

That's understandable, I always wanted an automated method myself. I think the range change is for the best, though.

Also, by Cult I didn't mean the culture building but the Temples and Priest line. Korrina gives up the state-sponsored worship in return for standard religions... Having the Emperor's Priests alongside normal ones is a bit much, I think.

You mean CultureControl by Jeckel? It is already in (not released yet), just tweaking it to suit fort commanders. And it resists... Some changes will come with it, too.
Also, I was quite disappointed to find that it is not a real culture, added each turn, but culture control, a kind of border enforcment, but overwritten by normal culture. A bit like current fort commander enforcement, but still, more flexible and in dll, not python.

Yes, yes I did... Haven't started merging it myself, so I suppose at this point I'll just 'borrow' your version so I can see how you did it.

Disappointing to find out it's not real culture though. Might have to work on that... I know there's a mod for Fall Further that includes a reworked Fort Commander system including some small permanent increases to culture on a tile, so as time goes on the tile will eventually become truly your territory... Could apply it in the DLL maybe.

At the very least though, it's more easily used and is not in python anymore.

 

[Imuratep]

I would like to know that, too Have to do something with OOS at some point.

Actually I consider this the most important thing to do in Orbis. The modmod itself is almost perfect, but if you have to have to reload your well-developed game every single turn to be able to continue playing it, the best mod becomes unplayable.

 

[Dominicius]

I did not like that all spreading had to be done manually. But I will keep the current system, but probably limit temple HL spread to 8 tiles around the city. Rest will require creeper/blighter.

Like I said, if we are not making the haunted lands harder to get then the bonus they give needs to go. Eight tiles is still too much.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

except for the fact that they will give +1H+1C instead of +2+2 in patch I

 

[Ahwaric]

So every land terrain with haunted lands is equal 1 1
The only exception are plains hills with 2 and 1
It is as much as forest for plains and hills, but 1 is traded for , and a bit more for other flat terrains

The only real pro compared to forest (as HL are unhealthy) is scion ability to build in HL.

 

[Rosetint]

Another reason to reduce the Haunted Lands from the Temple of the Gift is that the temple can be a devastating weapon. If you can just hold a city for a few turns, you can use a priest to build a temple of the Gift and you have destroyed any other civs ability to use that city productively. Personally, I like moving to just 8 squares around the city.

 

[Turpitude]

Just posted this in the bug thread but I'll post it here too: please cut out Guardian of Pristin Pass, it completely borks the AI.

 

[Belizan]

What does it do to the AI?

 

[Rosetint]

I would second the call to remove worker promotions or change them. My main issue with them is that there isn't really much choice. Basically you either get slightly faster workers or slightly tougher. Generally I pick either one or the other but find myself constantly having to find workers and promote them up. Perhaps you could add some more promotions to them to give them more variety. E.g. Miner (%50 build for mine/quarry), Green Thumb (%50 buidl time for farms/plantations), Inspired (hard to get but lets them build improvments you don't have the tech for)., Tree Hugger (can build without removing forests).

 

[Falc]

Or how about creating upgraded versions of workers? Or allowing the corporation units to build certain improvements? A Farmer unit could build farms in half the time of a regular worker, a few other food-related things in 3/4 time, but no mines or quarries.

 

[Valkrionn]

Hmm... I like the buildspeed promotions. Would need to allow build-orders to be added/removed via promotions, but should be possible...

At the least, I'll have to remember that for later.