Features you would NOT like to see repeated in Civ 7

What I'd like to see removed completely : Immortal leaders, 1UPT, City States, tunnels, canals, bridges

What I'd like to see completely changed : Diplomacy, Religion, Spy, Districts, Combat, Governors, Great People, Victory conditions, Culture/Tourism

And the jersey system must be removed if it can't be an option.

Immortal leaders have been a fixture of the franchise forever, of course, but I wouldn't miss them at all. I'd rather see something where the leader unique bonuses came with a new kind of GP or a golden age or something like that.

I won't repeat myself about 1UPT, but I totally agree.

Tunnels and canals would be OK if they had reasonable limits. Tunnels are particularly goofy.

I'm not totally against the Jersey system, I mostly wish it had a wider palette. However, I always mod my own color scheme onto the game anyway so it hasn't been too much of an issue.
 
What's wrong with City-States? They take up too much space?

No point in getting rid of the immortal leaders. It's part of what makes Civilization Civilization. Otherwise, it will be something like Humankind. They can definitely tone down the leader animations if that takes up too much resources. Talking Civ Leaders was what drawn me into Civ in the first place (with Civ5).
For City-States I don't like how they force 2 diplomacy systems in the game (maybe 3 with the next Barbarian update ?), both quite limited, with separated "diplomatic currencies".

I'd much prefer an unified but deeper diplomatic system, with one currency, and more dynamism, when a "player" (human/AI) can evolve both way like this:
Tribes (aka "Barbarians") <-> City States <-> Civilizations

In the same way, if leaders are to stay (and they will stay, removing them is just a preference that I now is not shared a lot, except maybe by Boris Gudenuf here) I could play with dynamic leaders instead of static representation. Remove the magnificent but useless full screen diplomacy, bring back a partial screen where you can consult everything else in your empire before making a diplomatic decision, use the new available development time on providing more leaders (or more "persona") that could (as in "optional") change mid-game with Eras/Governments.

here is my controversial take of the day. get rid of range, except in the modern era. first of all, archers can't shoot over 50 km. second, humans ability to abuse range and the AI's incompetence using it is one of the key reasons why AI combat is so poor.
I fully agree with that, parts of the Combat overhaul I'd like to see to help the AI.
 
I wouldn't be at all opposed to having a separate battle map pop up in style of HoMM3 or similar. I would like to see battles be more rare and much much more definitive when they do happen.
 
And what would be a purpose to have an archer unit then? They would be melee. The only solution is humankind style battles.
support fire role on the tile defended/attacked when using more than 1UPT (I'd love to see them try something like 2-3 at start up to 5-6 at the end of the game depending on techs/eras/supplies), or ambush attacks depending on terrains/features for quick examples.

edit: they would be the recon/skirmisher line in a strict 1UPT setting.
 
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I don't know how Humankind approaches battles but there are alternative mechanics that can simulate ranged capabilities without having archers firing across 2 tiles. In Civ4 each combat was resolved in multiple rounds and ranged units could deal damage in earlier rounds without taking any in return. In Battle for Wesnoth some units can have both ranged and melee attacks and can use the former risk-free unless they're facing another ranged unit. There are options.

It took me a long time to get past the way the Civ franchise has dealt with ranged combat post-Civ4, in fact it's the primary reason I played very little Civ5. It was just so immersion-breaking.
 
We already have “multistacking as tech progresses” with the corps/army system but I think it needs more levels to it, starting out with one per tile and progressing upwards with the various military civics/techs

Military Training lets you stack 2
Military Tactics lets you stack 3
Printing lets you stack 4
Nationalism lets you stack 5
Mobilization lets you stack 6
Combined Arms lets you stack 7
Robotics lets you stack 8

Ranged weaponry has a range of one. Period, because I fracking hate “archer peekaboo”. This also indirectly shows the devestating impact of having command of the air.

Naval ranged units can only bombard coastal cities. History has dramatically shown that having a swarm of battleships does absolutly nothing to prevent a superior land army from curb stomping your continental allies

You can mix and match different types of units in a stack. Losses are taken from the unit with the most health first, melee units win ties.

I think this gives you flexability and avoids most of the 1PT issues without turning into Stacks Of Doom

One other factor I think could be interesting is having stacking limits based on terrain, with woods and rainforest reducing it by one, marsh, tundra and desert by two, and snow being capped at one. You can always stack at least one unit per tile regardless

Germany ignores stacking limits in woods, and Vietnam in jungles, as the Romans and Americans found out the hard way.
 
And what would be a purpose to have an archer unit then? They would be melee. The only solution is humankind style battles.
Not necessarily. They would be like slingers having one range and not take damage when attacking.

Of course I like the idea in Civ 6 that you start out with a weaker one range unit and upgrade into a 2 range archer, just point out that you don't need two spaces to be considered a ranged unit.
 
1. Agendas, I think everything has already been said by the others.

2. Cutting the Atomic Age, I like immersive games, and cutting the atomic age would make the earlier ages bigger and more immersive. Not to mention that the late game is long and boring, and having three ages to represent ~150 years is completely unnecessary for me.
As for the future era, it's ok for me, but I don't like how it's implemented. If you are not playing scientific victory you have no incentive to go into the future era.

3. Cutting 1UPT, this makes war logistics quite complicated. I think this is why AI is hardly able to conquest another civ.

4. Some ridiculous AI behavior, it does not make sense to me for a leader to hold a grudge against a war that happened centuries ago, or a leader on the other side of the world complaining that you are making war.

5. Reshape religious victory and religion as a whole.
All of these.

Regarding 3, corps, armies, and support units were a step in the right direction, but IMO a soft limit on unit stacking instead of a hard limit would be better. Like for example, a Grassland has a "supply limit" of 4 units normally, going up with tech, and going over that will increase the possibility of units taking damage exponentially because there are not enough supplies in that region. A desert could be 0. Something like that. I don't like doomstacks, I prefer 1upt but it was an inelegant solution/
 
We already have “multistacking as tech progresses” with the corps/army system but I think it needs more levels to it, starting out with one per tile and progressing upwards with the various military civics/techs

Military Training lets you stack 2
Military Tactics lets you stack 3
Printing lets you stack 4
Nationalism lets you stack 5
Mobilization lets you stack 6
Combined Arms lets you stack 7
Robotics lets you stack 8

Ranged weaponry has a range of one. Period, because I fracking hate “archer peekaboo”. This also indirectly shows the devestating impact of having command of the air.

Naval ranged units can only bombard coastal cities. History has dramatically shown that having a swarm of battleships does absolutly nothing to prevent a superior land army from curb stomping your continental allies

You can mix and match different types of units in a stack. Losses are taken from the unit with the most health first, melee units win ties.

I think this gives you flexability and avoids most of the 1PT issues without turning into Stacks Of Doom

One other factor I think could be interesting is having stacking limits based on terrain, with woods and rainforest reducing it by one, marsh, tundra and desert by two, and snow being capped at one. You can always stack at least one unit per tile regardless

Germany ignores stacking limits in woods, and Vietnam in jungles, as the Romans and Americans found out the hard way.

My problem with the corps/army stacking in 6 is that it doesn't allow for mixed units, it's basically just a way to spend production to make a 'super warrior'.

I would much rather see a Total War/Crusader Kings style army system where you are limited to a certain number of stacks, each of a certain size, and where you are encouraged to mix unit types inside to better deal with enemy army stacks.

Sizes and the number of army stacks you can run increases with military civics and from retirement bonuses from great generals.

Such an army system could also allow for a supply system, just as in TW/CK, where armies outside of your territory progressively become weaker when running low on supply, eventually losing units to attrition.
 
My problem with the corps/army stacking in 6 is that it doesn't allow for mixed units, it's basically just a way to spend production to make a 'super warrior'.

I would much rather see a Total War/Crusader Kings style army system where you are limited to a certain number of stacks, each of a certain size, and where you are encouraged to mix unit types inside to better deal with enemy army stacks.

Sizes and the number of army stacks you can run increases with military civics and from retirement bonuses from great generals.

Such an army system could also allow for a supply system, just as in TW/CK, where armies outside of your territory progressively become weaker when running low on supply, eventually losing units to attrition.

That is pretty much what I was describing
 
Being able to change leaders might be a great "1/3 new" feature for Civ. It might also make the Agenda and Diplomacy aspects a lot better.

For instance, let's say that we get rid of Governors and instead adopt a panel of potential leaders. Each has his or her leader ability and agenda. Some might sync better with a type of government, and all bring new diplomatic opportunities. Let's say the game enters the modern era, and Russia adopts Communism. The Russia player gets to choose to keep playing as Peter (bonus to culture), or switch to Ivan, Stalin, Catherine, or Gorbachev. The player picks Stalin (bonus to spies), because few other players have Communist governments and the player anticipates taking a diplomatic hit. However, China has also adopted Communism and switched from Zetian to Mao. Whereas Russia and China had been denouncing each other and racked up grievances, they now have similar governments and China's agenda switched from "building wonders" to "industrial development," which makes them more favorable to Russia. BOOM - you now have an opening at detente that you didn't have before. Russia now has to choose whether to move closer to China or risk the opportunity by using its empowered spies to cripple a potential Chinese competitor.

That sounds like fun to me.
 
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I have another point: Combined sea and land trade routes.

This is something that on the surface seems good/convenient, but in practice I think it is actually vastly inferior to the system of civ 5. In 5, sea and land trade routes were launched seperately, and sea routes were several times more effective/profitable as compared to land routes. This helped make coastal cities highly valuable trading hubs, despite the fact they were now vulnerable to naval units.

In the same fashion, allowing non-coastal cities to produce naval units/sea trade via the harbor district I think is also a mistake. Navies are notoriously useless in 6, while in 5 they were dominant. This is because of how essential coastal cities are in 5 for trade, and how vulnerable coastal cities then likewise are to naval units.

I think both of these points should be reverted in 7.
 
I wouldn't be at all opposed to having a separate battle map pop up in style of HoMM3 or similar. I would like to see battles be more rare and much much more definitive when they do happen.

Oh my god please no tactical battle map. Sid himself said that this slowed the game down and he was completely right. I will always auto roll Endless Legend battles because I dislike it so much.

And what would be a purpose to have an archer unit then? They would be melee. The only solution is humankind style battles.

I think that is putting the cart before the horse. First they should create a 1upt game system that the AI can live with. then, figure out what role these units can play.

a few other comments:
  • despite being a big IV fan, I think UPT is here to stay. literally every other 4x has adopted the idea. the era of the stack of doom is long, long gone.
  • corps and army stuff is just a side issue IMO, and wouldn't offer any serious solution to any of the issues (well it does in Endless, but at the cost of having a horrid tactical battle system).
  • in my limited study of ancient (Western) warfare, the guys who shot stuff just weren't that big of a deal. they were mostly skirmishers who were there to disrupt the enemies' lines, not to do damage. total war has probably given us an inaccurate picture here with a few exceptions. Instead, what ancient histories emphasize is the game-breaking role of horse mounted warriors, and indeed, horse-mounted archers. I think if there was a historical example where ranged units seriously made a difference, that would present a good start to modeling the game mechanic. but i am inclined right now towards a mosh pit melee game with much more emphasis on how mounted soldiers disrupt this approach.
 
Ironically, even as a colorblind player the jersey system sort of annoys me; I liked each Civ having a unique color, and they all feel basically the same now that their colors use a limited palette and are pretty much interchangeable. The sad thing is that this could've easily been resolved through a number of methods:
  • Making the current system an optional "high-contrast" setting
  • Using a larger palette of colors, that could potentially be substituted for current ones with a toggle (e.g. "limited colors", "many colors", and "unique colors")
  • Keeping unique colors, but grouping them into "sets" in which one might get forced out if more than two Civs are in that set (with doubled weight being given to the player.)
Ironically it doesn't even fully succeed at being a colorblind mode since some of the colors can still be difficult to differentiate if you're only seeing a limited palette.

Anyway, the big thing for me would be less focus on unique leaders. I'm fine with keeping them, broadly, but I'd rather have quantity over quality considering how many good leader choices there are throughout history (and how many Civs I'd like to see.) The current compromise is especially underwhelming when you consider that even Civ 6's "quality" is spotty between some of the uncanny-looking early leaders (many base game leaders like Gandhi, some DLC leaders like Alex) and the semi-recycled NFP leaders.

Aside from that, just reset great work theming and the world congress to how they worked in V. They weren't great there, either, but they were passable and strictly better than whatever the hell these mechanics are trying to be in VI.
 
There are a few choices they made for units that I disagree with.
#1: when the game launched there were large intentional gaps in the unit tree, basically a hard rule of 1-2 era gaps for everything. I recall the state reason was for faster game pacing because people didn't like getting units upgraded and then having them obsolete by the time they get to the front lines. However, this is a symptom of game pace and not the other way around; this only creates more problems unless all units that need to interact with each other upgrade at the same time.

It's a well intentioned idea, but if you think out what the result will be, it's pretty obvious why it didn't work: Any unit that upgrades in era X has an implicit advantage in units that upgrade in X-1 during era X. This is extremely problematic if unit A counters unit B (swords->spears etc) because there will be eras where unit A will be extremely strong against B, such that there will not be any point using B, and thus there will be no B's to upgrade in era X+1. The conclusion of this is that units of a certain class won't even be built. Which ones exactly depends on who starts with what in the first era and who upgrades in the second era.

#2 the economics of unit upgrades are so massively favorable to upgrading that i really really think this specific aspect needs to be re-evaluated in the future. If it's a problem for the AI just give them a discount. It create sa number of downstream issues for the economy.

#3 there are 4 main melee unit classes in civ6- Melee, Anticav, Light cav, and Heavy cav. I would give a lot of thought into how to differentiate them at the class level so that you don't end up in the situation that civ5 and civ6 both experienced at launch - the dominating stats for usefulness were strength and movement, so welcome to Sid Meier's Horseman Rush. In civ6 the dominance of Knights for all of vanilla and RF (they are still quite potent now, even) speaks to this issue not being resolved well.

I am not pointing these out because I disagree with the current balance point of civ6, but because they greatly restrict the universe of possible balance points and consistently generate balance points where some units are useless. By working out some of these issues, you can still implement the same kinds of balancing but leave the door open to others - particularly ones that I believe would be better for the game's health.
 
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Oh God the World Congress needs to die in a fire. I just had a bloody game where I was short on coal, made it to oil, and then was forbidden to convert my coal plants to oil because some people I never met held a meeting on the other side of the world

What is this even supposed to represent? I was swimming in oil but nope the UN sez no so my power engineers just shrug and roll with the blackouts?
 
I agree that the WC needs some balancing at the very least. Maybe give the option to defy it at the cost of a heavy diplomatic penalty.

Oh my god please no tactical battle map. Sid himself said that this slowed the game down and he was completely right. I will always auto roll Endless Legend battles because I dislike it so much.

Slows down the game more than micromanaging individual units on a strategic map? I don't buy it. Did Sid make that statement before or after 1UPT?

Although tbh, if I had a tactical battle map plus a quick-resolve option, I'd probably use the latter most of the time. Maybe only for battles that were big enough to be interesting. I just don't enjoy tactics that much in a game like Civ. However, I enjoy them even less because 1UPT is so cumbersome.
 
I agree that the WC needs some balancing at the very least. Maybe give the option to defy it at the cost of a heavy diplomatic penalty.



Slows down the game more than micromanaging individual units on a strategic map? I don't buy it. Did Sid make that statement before or after 1UPT?

Although tbh, if I had a tactical battle map plus a quick-resolve option, I'd probably use the latter most of the time. Maybe only for battles that were big enough to be interesting. I just don't enjoy tactics that much in a game like Civ. However, I enjoy them even less because 1UPT is so cumbersome.

I don't know if you have played the Endless Legends game, but a single tactical battle can easily take 30 minutes. And because they have 1UPT (in a sense) as well, they have similar 1UPT problems as well.

Oh God the World Congress needs to die in a fire. I just had a bloody game where I was short on coal, made it to oil, and then was forbidden to convert my coal plants to oil because some people I never met held a meeting on the other side of the world

What is this even supposed to represent? I was swimming in oil but nope the UN sez no so my power engineers just shrug and roll with the blackouts?

If you don't want to just scrap world congress, which I can see both sides of, they definitely need to add a "defy resolution" option. After all, the history of the LoN and UN in the real world is literally full of countries defying the consensus.
 
Does the Jersey system count? Because I'd like for it to be removed from my games. Sweden should be blue and yellow so why is white an option sometimes? I know some people like it, and it might help people with vision problems, so I'm fine with making it optional. But that's one option I'd like to turn off personally.

Well, firstly is not just yellow and gold, altough mainly yellow and gold, white is also prominent in the greater coat of arms of Sweden (see spoiler below). I personally consider a blue on white scheme for sweden a funny nod to its (temporary) domination of Finland.
Spoiler :
120px-Great_shield_of_arms_of_Sweden.svg.png

Nevertheless, on topic, I think it has to be kept as others have said...

I think it was a practical step that needed to happen with so many civs in the game--ever seen Sweden, Pericles, CdM, and Lautaro next to each other? Or Hojo and Tamar? I have. But some jerseys could be better chosen.

I had enough vanilla games with Arabia-Kongo being a yellow blow (it was the same yellow), or Pericles-CdM, which only were differentianted by a slight shade of blue (really difficult to tell apart units when some had the transparency for having been moved.

I agree the choice and the reduction/simplification of colors that came with the Jersey system should be removed as well as the awful selection of some jerseys, but not the Jersey system itself.
Ideally, you shold be able to re-pick one of the civ jerseys at any time in the game (i.e. having it as a selectable menu in the leader portrait).
I've modded my own colors in the game (you can expand the pallete as much as you want), and re-colored all civs to make use of it while having all interesting and relatable colors, and I love it.


I'll add maybe a slightly contentious point: One unit per tile (1UPT).
here is my controversial take of the day. get rid of range, except in the modern era. first of all, archers can't shoot over 50 km. second, humans ability to abuse range and the AI's incompetence using it is one of the key reasons why AI combat is so poor. if we are going to do 1upt, just go all in and make every war a horrible mosh pit.

I won't like the old Stacks of Doom, so I won't say completely unit-per-tile limit should be removed, but clearly the system could get greater reworks. Some good ideas have been posted. I've been thinking lately also about some army-combined arms implementation, in which each tile could fit different kinds of units providing specific benefits. This would also allow protecting siege and archers, allowing to reduce range to 1, except for late game units, which is more sensible.

In the same fashion, allowing non-coastal cities to produce naval units/sea trade via the harbor district I think is also a mistake. Navies are notoriously useless in 6, while in 5 they were dominant. This is because of how essential coastal cities are in 5 for trade, and how vulnerable coastal cities then likewise are to naval units.

I disagree about harbors. Previous civ games, your city placement was heavily influenced if you had coastline available, as only coast spots were valid if some tiles would fall in water (Civ V -and by extension VI- extended city range), just made it worse. Breaking this was necessary. Navy warfare is still useful in Civ VI, altough some steps could be taken to improve it, yes.


Some other things that need to be improve rather than go:

> separated science and civics is ok, along with eurekas and inspirations, but progress should be tailored so these do not speed-up the movement trought the tree that much as it is now. To be clear: it is not that the later ears are that bad, is that you spend a lot of time on these because you just had 20 turns in each of the previous ones. Either give more techs/civics there, or make them longer to investigate.

> religious combat is interesting, but ends being tedious as hell. Religious may need to be reworked to work more passively (i.e. missionaries, apostles and inquisitors have area of effect which slowly influences cities, instead of charges). Some kind of religious combat, in which religious units slowly take "damage" when entering the area of other unit, could be considered, but it should not be as active as the military layer.

> world congress needs to be improved. A lot has been said on this an other threads.
 
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