FEB 2011 Patch Details

Well, Civ 4 had jails and Civ 5 doesn't yet, so maybe it will be a new cultural building and be named jail.
Although it would make a bit more sense to rename the existing Courthouse the jail and have the new building be a called a Courthouse considering that Legalism opens it up.

I agree. I was just thinking what would happen if you pick Legalism and you have already build a Monument but haven't researched Philosophy yet?
 
Without the Oligarchy bonus, the possibility of using the meritocracy GE to build the Himeji Castle is really appealing in Deity. You even get a nice culture bonus to keep those policies coming.

The new Oligarchy bonus still looks pretty useful though. You can garrison a mounted or ranged unit in a city to give it the 100% bombard bonus, shoot an approaching unit with the city to put it in the yellow or red, and then mop it up with your garrison. I never though archers were that useful in fighting barbs in your own territory because they couldn't kill them in one turn and can't block them from pillaging and harassing your workers like melee units can, but under the new rules you can probably kill them the turn they show up within range, and if not, adding a Wall would be very useful. Would be cool, although possibly overpowered, if there was a way to extend the bombardment range of a city to 3, maybe if you build a city on a hill?
 
very confusing policie. which makes me wonder about the risk of them messing up the game even more with these new changes (also, the changes in policies look exciting, but they really weren`t necessary).
 
Having a wall extend the city bombardment range to 3 would indeed be too powerful.

Remember that the AI loves 3 tile placement, so:

1. Choose Arabs, Mongols, or anyone else that has a unique land unit that moves after bombardment

2. Wait until your target has road connected their cities & you have two or three of your UU.

3. Capture a border city.

4. If there's not already walls there then as soon as it comes out of resistance annex it and cash rush walls.

5. Now use that city to help bombard the enemy's next city along with your UU using the portion of the road network you now have so that you bombard that city while moving them outside of range, with no retaliation

6. As soon as you've redlined the enemy city, send your troops in to easily capture it.

7. Chances are this city is 3 tiles away from the next city so repeat #4 thru 6 until you've knocked the enemy off the landmass.

and if not, adding a Wall would be very useful. Would be cool, although possibly overpowered, if there was a way to extend the bombardment range of a city to 3, maybe if you build a city on a hill?
 
Having a wall extend the city bombardment range to 3 would indeed be too powerful.

Remember that the AI loves 3 tile placement, so: (removed due to being wrong)

Don't forget.. cities must now be one more tile away... so this can't happen post-patch.

As per the suggestion, I wouldn't mind seeing that (range increase), but not til a Military Base is built. Make it worth going there.
 
Having a wall extend the city bombardment range to 3 would indeed be too powerful.

Remember that the AI loves 3 tile placement, so:

1. Choose Arabs, Mongols, or anyone else that has a unique land unit that moves after bombardment

2. Wait until your target has road connected their cities & you have two or three of your UU.

3. Capture a border city.

4. If there's not already walls there then as soon as it comes out of resistance annex it and cash rush walls.

5. Now use that city to help bombard the enemy's next city along with your UU using the portion of the road network you now have so that you bombard that city while moving them outside of range, with no retaliation

6. As soon as you've redlined the enemy city, send your troops in to easily capture it.

7. Chances are this city is 3 tiles away from the next city so repeat #4 thru 6 until you've knocked the enemy off the landmass.

Won't be a problem in the upcoming patch as city must have a minimum of three tiles between them.
 
Current patch allows:

C - X - C . (Within range of 2 tile bombardment; common with ICS players, but not much with the AI unless islands are involved.)

New patch min is C - X - X - C. That is not within range of 2 tile bombardment but would be with three.
 
Current patch allows:

C - X - C . (Within range of 2 tile bombardment; common with ICS players, but not much with the AI unless islands are involved.)

New patch min is C - X - X - C. That is not within range of 2 tile bombardment but would be with three.

that's only with islands. You can't place a city C-X-C right now on land without changing the XML. (min distance is 2 tiles *between* the cities - IE, no sharing the first ring - so C-X-X-C)
 
RE: Meritocracy, if you have a population high enough to one-turn it, grabbing the GE from Meritocracy and getting Porcelain Tower for its GS is smart, both for AI prevention and for the GS point/culture it provides. That's if you wanted a GS to begin with.
 
RE: Meritocracy, if you have a population high enough to one-turn it, grabbing the GE from Meritocracy and getting Porcelain Tower for its GS is smart, both for AI prevention and for the GS point/culture it provides. That's if you wanted a GS to begin with.

Why just get one GS when you can get two?

The Porcelain Tower is the one Wonder I can rely on getting, since I beeline Education so aggressively. I can usually even get it after Hagia Sophia when the AIs let me have that one.
 
it only costs 400 to build (4 pop). i'd rather get chichen or hijemi.

I'd say Himeji castle is the most important of those two to get if for no other reason than to prevent the AI from getting it. After all, it's much easier to capture the AI city that beat you to the Chichen Itza than it is to capture the AI city with the Himeji Castle.
 
* Forge adds +1 production to each source of Iron ???

I've had a city with 14 iron resources in 3 spots, so what does this mean? THIS city will get an extra 14 production which is huge, it can't mean empire wide...I hope?

Or I might read it as EVERY TILE WITH IRON, will add another hammer, which in my city would be 3 extra hammers, which I wouldn't spit at. :)

I'm guessing the latter and only city-wide bonus.
 
I'd say Himeji castle is the most important of those two to get if for no other reason than to prevent the AI from getting it. After all, it's much easier to capture the AI city that beat you to the Chichen Itza than it is to capture the AI city with the Himeji Castle.

i agree castle is better, but if you get the policy way before chivalry, you could get chichen, and with stonehenge / pyramids / angkor or workshop produce a natural GE for hijemi.

I'm guessing the latter and only city-wide bonus.
it's pretty much exactly what it says... instead of iron giving a tile +1 prod, it will give +2.
 
* Forge adds +1 production to each source of Iron ???

I've had a city with 14 iron resources in 3 spots, so what does this mean? THIS city will get an extra 14 production which is huge, it can't mean empire wide...I hope?

Or I might read it as EVERY TILE WITH IRON, will add another hammer, which in my city would be 3 extra hammers, which I wouldn't spit at. :)

I'm guessing the latter and only city-wide bonus.

And I Think it is only Iron that has been mined.. not sure though.


Anyways... any guesses as to the Aqueduct's stats, I'm guessing Engineering Tech...200 hammers,... 2 or 3 maintenance... meaning Civil Service isn't the immediate rush for the OCC anymore.
 
Anyways... any guesses as to the Aqueduct's stats, I'm guessing Engineering Tech...200 hammers,... 2 or 3 maintenance... meaning Civil Service isn't the immediate rush for the OCC anymore.

Way too pricy to have an impact.

I'm guessing 100:c5production: and 2:c5gold: at Construction. I can't see them having any impact on the flow of the game at a cost above 120:c5production:.
 
Anyways... any guesses as to the Aqueduct's stats, I'm guessing Engineering Tech...200 hammers,... 2 or 3 maintenance... meaning Civil Service isn't the immediate rush for the OCC anymore.

20 bucks says aqueduct's are accessed through mathematics.

I'm guessing 100 and 2 at Construction. I can't see them having any impact on the flow of the game at a cost above 120.

Given they have nearly the same effect as granaries did in civ4 and there is more overall food available sooner in civ5, this building is going to be an obv. must build in almost every city, even if it's 200+ hammers. Also you are not taking into account the increased hammer yields of cities. But yeah, I'd guess somewhere around 120 hammers and 2 maintenance.
 
Way too pricy to have an impact.

I'm guessing 100:c5production: and 2:c5gold: at Construction. I can't see them having any impact on the flow of the game at a cost above 120:c5production:.

2KGreg said it was going to be at Engineering (and the icon for the Engineering tech even shows an aqueduct), which seem slightly late, although from a game playing perspective Engineering was the only tech that didn't give either a building or a unit.

A Granary is 100:c5production: and a Watermill is 120:c5production:, so I'd expect the Aqueduct to be more expensive than that. The Hospital, which is only 25% better than the Aqueduct, is 400:c5production: in the current patch.
 
Given they have nearly the same effect as granaries did in civ4 and there is more overall food available sooner in civ5, this building is going to be an obv. must build in almost every city, even if it's 200+ hammers.

No. Let me show you why.

I can pay 150:c5production: for Colosseum in a new city, ultimately yielding 3 pop at a cost of 2:c5unhappy: (assuming non-India). Alternately, I can pay X:c5production: for an Aqueduct in an existing city, yielding 2 pop for a cost of 2:c5unhappy:. Granted, I have to pay 80ish combined :c5production: and :c5food: (after Collective Rule) to get the Settler to make the new city, but the improved :c5happy: numbers mean that investment's going to pay off in the long run. Also notice that the existing city is eventually going to grow, Aqueduct or no.

It follows that some X exists where it makes sense to build another city rather than an Aqueduct, given the :c5happy: constraint. That's before we account for the effects of capturing additional luxuries, additional specialists and bonus Maritime :c5food:.

As X gets large, ICS remains optimal. A more reasonable :c5production: cost on the Aqueduct forces the player to make a choice early on: go vertical and risk losing out on luxuries in order to get some large :c5production: streams for slapping up multiplier buildings, or stay horizontal and try to grab the luxuries before they get gobbled up.

2KGreg said it was going to be at Engineering (and the icon for the Engineering tech even shows an aqueduct), which seem slightly late, although from a game playing perspective Engineering was the only tech that didn't give either a building or a unit.

Engineering's pretty deep. That requires a serious commitment to unlock early. Another point in favor of horizontal play.
 
A question for the more mathematically inclined -- how cheap will America's Land Buy get if they go Tradition and then snag the Angkor Wat? Will that be countered by lower trading post output? I ask mainly for silly play. ;)
 
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