Feedback thread

[Maniac]

Speaking of my current game: here's a save when nothing I do will prevent a crash next turn. And I was so looking forward to do my first conquest rather than the subspace generator...

Fixed in patch a.

The supply pods can build the Unity wonders in one move (with a separate button), but if you decide to start building the wonder and use them to hurry up, it just provides less hammers (diamonds?) so you can't finish it in one move. Can you make those supply pods provide more hammers?

I don't understand the problem. Doesn't the instabuild button work anymore once some minerals have been accumulated to the project?

Sorry to hog this thread, but I think the Gaians are often very low in score because they don't remove fungus from their land, which makes them grow very slowly. If they don't spawn in a fungus-free zone, that is.

I don't share your experience that the Gaians are often very low in score. Plus leaving fungus alone is a good idea if you're following a pro-Planet strategy.

 

[Pfeffersack]

I don't understand the problem. Doesn't the instabuild button work anymore once some minerals have been accumulated to the project?

He means that he can complete an unstarted Unity SP when he just wents with supply pod to base which hasn't started the project yet. But if the base has already started the project, this button is no longer there - instead the one to hurry things is available. But using it will yield less then 120 minerals for some reason (I believe 80 something), so it is often not sufficient for completing the SP alone.

I remember having had that issue in the past as well (but somehow I adjusted then to never try to finishing started project with the supplies and forget about it then)


@ Deidres performance

Deidre is rarely last or first in score in my games - she is most of the time somewhere in the middle. She usually isn't up to the newest techs, but she makes up for it with many bases and units. But that doesn't show in the tech-biased Civ 4 score.

Leaving fungus is a must for her. Her route is the green and industrialization is just not part of that strategy. Nor are big bases (she is the only leader I have never seen with bases having a pop bigger then 20 - 12 to 15 is quite high for he) - she has to rely on many small bases - they yield more positive PV, which means more mindworms. Maybe here the AI could be improved - Deidre should care a lot less over overlapping base radii. I wonder if there is yet a difference between the leaders in this special aspect?


Edit: Speaking about weak-performing factions, The Pirates come to my mind. While I'm ruling the game with the Drones, Aki and Roze have at least a decent standing...but Svensgaard somehow can't cope with the game (a game with high sealevel!) I haven't found a reason yet, but what I noticed so far is that for some reason he doesn't expand like the others. I have never seen him with more then 3 bases in all games. Maybe native life on sea makes him trouble or he just has the wrong building priorities. I will try him as next leader. Of course such an attempt is from limited use, as the AI isn't just as capable, but it might tell at least if his boni are as useful as the those of the other factions.
If time should show that he needs further boosting, I would favor something which makes him truly fearsome on sea (e.g. land units starting with amphibious) - at the cost of distracting him from land colonization (e.g. land bases of him suffer extra unhappy- and unhealthiness, because his people just don't like living there - depending on number of land squares in the base radius; that would also avoid coast-hugging behaviour). Also a special bonus for the submarine-line of units would make sense - the faction is called the Nautilus Pirates.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Maniac, thanks for the patch. (I won that University game in 2308--Domination. Near the end I had a negative 9! planet attitude and natives were spawning every turn in my new conquests)
I agree with Pfeffersack. The Gaians just have lots of unimproved empty land, especially near the borders. I have never seen a city beyond size 8 for them.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I really, really don't like the fact that fungal towers with their 3 minions can spawn any time right next to a city, when all I have are flame throwers. It just doesn't give you enough time to mount a defense, and a blockade just kills your city before it has a chance to expand its cross. And this just ruined a nearly perfect game of Peacekeepers when I had almost a whole continent to myself except for Zakharov--lost 2 out of 4 cities in a row even with 3 defenders each (one of them an expert chopper), and I was only at -0.4 for planet attitude but running terraformed.

Can you please make it so that fungal spawns happen more so on the outskirts of a fat cross rather than next to a city, unless you're at -3 or 4 planet attitude (by then you should have enough production to mount an offense)?

 

[GeoModder]

I really, really don't like the fact that fungal towers with their 3 minions can spawn any time right next to a city, when all I have are flame throwers. It just doesn't give you enough time to mount a defense, and a blockade just kills your city before it has a chance to expand its cross. And this just ruined a nearly perfect game of Peacekeepers when I had almost a whole continent to myself except for Zakharov--lost 2 out of 4 cities in a row even with 3 defenders each (one of them an expert chopper), and I was only at -0.4 for planet attitude but running terraformed.

Can you please make it so that fungal spawns happen more so on the outskirts of a fat cross rather than next to a city, unless you're at -3 or 4 planet attitude (by then you should have enough production to mount an offense)?

How early in the game is this?

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Well, just after I researched polymorphic software and starting the Unity Library, so this cannot be more than 40 turns. (I researched Centauri geology, defense logistics and soil enrichment before, and finished the all-ecology civics wonder)

Correction: it's turn 68, (time flies when you have fun) but my point still stands regardless of the time. There is simply no counter to fungal towers until psionics. I vote for giving flame throwers and plasma throwers a small but tangible benefit to defending against towers.

 

[Maniac]

He means that he can complete an unstarted Unity SP when he just wents with supply pod to base which hasn't started the project yet. But if the base has already started the project, this button is no longer there - instead the one to hurry things is available. But using it will yield less then 120 minerals for some reason (I believe 80 something), so it is often not sufficient for completing the SP alone.

Using the Unity Supplies should work at any time now.

Maybe here the AI could be improved - Deidre should care a lot less over overlapping base radii. I wonder if there is yet a difference between the leaders in this special aspect?

Actually, just like Creative leaders in vanilla civ, factions with a positive Planet Attitude (and thus free culture) will tend to build their bases further apart, not closer. That way they have a bigger chance to grab bonus resources, and are denying expansion room to other factions.

Speaking about weak-performing factions, The Pirates come to my mind.

That is to be expected. I have made no effort at all yet to improve pirate performance (or that of any SMAX faction for that matter). For the record, the view I improve AI performance is by playing a game with them as a team mate, and see what they do wrong.

 

[GeoModder]

Well, just after I researched polymorphic software and starting the Unity Library, so this cannot be more than 40 turns. (I researched Centauri geology, defense logistics and soil enrichment before, and finished the all-ecology civics wonder)

Correction: it's turn 68, (time flies when you have fun) but my point still stands regardless of the time. There is simply no counter to fungal towers until psionics. I vote for giving flame throwers and plasma throwers a small but tangible benefit to defending against towers.

Erm, am I wrong in assuming that fungal towers are immobile, so can't attack? AFAIK They can only do bombard damage, something a player can do too by building a perimeter defense. Or are you talking about spore launchers?

 

[Pfeffersack]

Actually, just like Creative leaders in vanilla civ, factions with a positive Planet Attitude (and thus free culture) will tend to build their bases further apart, not closer. That way they have a bigger chance to grab bonus resources, and are denying expansion room to other factions.

Ideally, both approaches don't contradict each other - first build bases far apart (5-7) tiles, fill the gaps with your culture, then build bases in the gaps later. I'm convinced that the last step is as important - with Hybrid those additional bases cause at least no maintenance for their number, they prevent existing bases from getting to big and each base more generates more +PV (one instance more to use pro-planet ressources and to build respective buildings)

That is to be expected. I have made no effort at all yet to improve pirate performance (or that of any SMAX faction for that matter). For the record, the view I improve AI performance is by playing a game with them as a team mate, and see what they do wrong.

I will consider it for the future. Though my next game will be as Svensgaard, it is hard to jugde how easy or difficult a faction is to handle you haven't played yourself. I can't get rid of the feeling that the current Svensgaard design maybe at least problematic in the critical beginning phase. For example, it could be a lack of minerals - the two tile boni he gets are about food and energy and while mines for landlubbers came with a cheap 1st level tech, Sveensgard is one or even two (more expensive) techs away from Mining Platforms.
Native life could be another factor. I'm not just refering to the fact that IoD and Lurks are a lot more mobile even without fungus and that we don't have geographical barriers like on land - we also have 3:3 instead of 2:3 odds for the defender. That might sound like a big advantage at the first glance, but there is a lot of truth in what Panopticon said in another thread - the bias to the defender makes invading possible. The sea does offer very little terrain boni, so on defense you are as strong as on land standing on a rough tile or in forest jungle. Add in a river and PSI defense on land gets superior.
But if you now try to see your chance on getting the initiative vs. native life on sea, you have suddenly the 3:3 odds against you. Plus the fact when attaking NL on sea you must rely on ships...and there are no cheap flamethrower ships, specially suited vs. NL. And if you suceed in such close fights and don't bring really overwhelming numbers (which isn't possible in the very beginning) or retreat, you get killed in counter attacks often (because of the lacking terrain defense).
That's why I had that idea with pirate land units starting with amphibious - that would gave them an extra 50% defnese at least for their bases...

I haven't tried it myself, but in theory it should be possible to remove the Great Dunes.

The Great Dunes with the Brown Algae are now inside my borders, but there is no way to clean the Dunes or build the Algae lab


Also, I found another nice way to fight native life - if you are lucky enough to have a Great Psych Chaplain around, just culture bomb the city under attack. This will block the next 80 fungal blooms plus that it likely increases the base radius - which means that, given that Terraformed is used, more tiles around the city get automatically cleaned from fungus.

 

[Pfeffersack]

A small request...the log entry when a city revolts and gets under the control of partisan units is the same ("native life captures...") as when the city is really captured by real native life...any chance to differentiate those two events? This would make it easier to see the success of destabilization efforts (which often take effect a few turns after you initiated the espionage mission) and make use of them.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

People have said the subspace generator is too easy, since as long as you can get Planetary Datalinks and a decently sized empire and build troops to deter the AI from attacking, you can beeline to singularity mechanics. Well, maybe you should require different types of dimensional gates (just like parts of spaceships) that are enabled by techs on different branches, and you have to research all of them.
The most powerful Morganic ability is not all those secret projects, it's their ability to buy a colonist with cash very early on.

 

[nevill]

Hello again.

Just finished my third game with PF version 13 and I have to say, Dropships are as powerful as they were in earlier versions. Most of my games on Emperor difficulty do not last longer then 50 turns after I discover that tech, 20 of which I spend building the bulk of my army. After that I just bring about 40 of my most powerful units (usually Walkers at that stage of the game) right to the enemy's doors and there is nothing they can do.

See, my units can unload from dropship and attack the defenders at the very same turn, and they do not unload from the transport while doing so, meaning that when the city eventually falls I can move them to the captured base and defend it if needed or prepare to invade another city next turn. If I pick certain special abilities which allow my dropships to travel through the forests and rocky tiles at double speed, I can travel from base to base (they are usually 4-5 tiles away from each other) conquering the enemy with ease. Smaller factions are destroyed in the same turn I declare war on them.

Drop troopers are not nearly that overpowered because of their inability to paradrop and attack at the same time, allowing the bunkers and/or other artillery units to soften them a bit. With dropships, enemy defences never have a chance.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Sounds like units such as choppers and dropships which fly should not have any travel benefit through forests or jungles (since you're flying above them anyway).
Drop troops are OK--you can just churn them out and shuttle them from city to city, or use the city with the Space Elevator as a hub to fly them out to conquered cities. They are more than adequate for attacking early units (even marines); not as powerful as Invitros though. Of course I'm only playing monarch so haven't had a chance to see any AI Invitros.

 

[Maniac]

A small request...the log entry when a city revolts and gets under the control of partisan units is the same ("native life captures...") as when the city is really captured by real native life...any chance to differentiate those two events? This would make it easier to see the success of destabilization efforts (which often take effect a few turns after you initiated the espionage mission) and make use of them.

Done. The Drones will also see an unhappy icon on the city bar of bases with drones.

People have said the subspace generator is too easy

I was thinking I could split up the Subspace Generator in different phases. This allows me to let factions who don't like you declare war on you when finishing the first phase. I can also give different boni when completing a stage, so that you don't have to build an umpteen-thousand-minerals project without getting anything from your investment in the meantime. If you want to see this change anytime soon however, I'd like people to suggest a very concrete number for how many minerals all the stages of the whole Subspace Generator summed together should cost.

See, my units can unload from dropship and attack the defenders at the very same turn, and they do not unload from the transport while doing so, meaning that when the city eventually falls I can move them to the captured base and defend it if needed or prepare to invade another city next turn.

First you say you unload them. Then you say they don't unload.
Anyway, changing loading/unloading code would negatively affect other stuff like (un)loading from real water transports and real amphibious assaults; so I don't want to mess with that code.

I just had the idea to let any non-amphib unit in cargo get an amphib combat penalty, not just any unit attacking from sea to land. Is a very simply code change. However I'm not familiar with all the possible exploits of un/loading. Would this solve anything?

If I pick certain special abilites which allow my dropships to traver through the forests and rocky tiles at double speed, I can travel from base to base (they are usually 4-5 tiles away from each other) conquering the enemy with ease. Smaller factions are destroyed in the same turn I declare war on them.

I have disabled the ability of Dropships to pick those spec abs.

 

[Pickly]

People have said the subspace generator is too easy, since as long as you can get Planetary Datalinks and a decently sized empire and build troops to deter the AI from attacking, you can beeline to singularity mechanics. Well, maybe you should require different types of dimensional gates (just like parts of spaceships) that are enabled by techs on different branches, and you have to research all of them.

This sounds like a good idea to me as well. (I've been mostly playing on lower difficulties, but the subspace win condition is still quite a bit simpler to finish than the other win conditions.)

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I was actually thinking of 2 other types of dimensional gates:
1. The usual type (city to city)
2. Type 2 (your city to any civ you have OB with, not just yours or your vassals')--can only build 4 in your civ (e.g. like spaceship parts)
3. Type 3 (your city to any tile in your domain, i.e. no need for a city as the endpoint), can only build 2

This would have the advantage of spreading religions (if somebody is about to beat you to the subspace generator you can try for a religion) or in war (you can concentrate troops wherever). The subspace generator would require 6 of type 1, 4 of type 2 and 2 of type 3. (This is to prevent a sudden influx of troops in 1 turn in at one place).

Obviously the 2 more advanced types of gates would need more techs and more hammers.

 

[nevill]

First you say you unload them. Then you say they don't unload.

Sorry. I edited the sentence and didn't notice this. The one who kills the last defender unloads and enters the base, while others do not.

I do not unload them. I just select them and tell them to attack the enemy.

However I'm not familiar with all the possible exploits of un/loading. Would this solve anything?

Anything that would make an attacker wait for 1 more turn before the attack is a welcome change. Reducing the capacity to 2 might also help. Dropships are still the fastest means of transportation with the exception of Psi Gates, and Psi Gates have a very limited use when it comes to relocating a huge army.

Personally, I would use them even if they could transport no more than 1 unit. Sometimes the extra bit of speed is essential.

 

[Monaldinio]

I was actually thinking of 2 other types of dimensional gates:
1. The usual type (city to city)
2. Type 2 (your city to any civ you have OB with, not just yours or your vassals')--can only build 4 in your civ (e.g. like spaceship parts)
3. Type 3 (your city to any tile in your domain, i.e. no need for a city as the endpoint), can only build 2

This would have the advantage of spreading religions (if somebody is about to beat you to the subspace generator you can try for a religion) or in war (you can concentrate troops wherever). The subspace generator would require 6 of type 1, 4 of type 2 and 2 of type 3. (This is to prevent a sudden influx of troops in 1 turn in at one place).

Obviously the 2 more advanced types of gates would need more techs and more hammers.

2.) In my opinion you can send with the Dimensinsgate Units to Cities/Civs you have open borders with!

3.) I think that is not a good concept because with this possibility you can send non stop Units to every part of the map, industriel superior Civs have then the options to overflow other civs within 2 rounds with units. So you can install a bridgehead with Units with strong defens abilities...and the invasion will be almost perfect.
Also this kind of Dimensionsgate would dropships and foils to become redundant!!!! The gamemechanics would get out of control! I had the same idea...but after editing the xml...i notice it makes no fun and it is unfair. So..bag to the good old style.

 

[Monaldinio]

Hello again.

Just finished my third game with PF version 13 and I have to say, Dropships are as powerful as they were in earlier versions. Most of my games on Emperor difficulty do not last longer then 50 turns after I discover that tech, 20 of which I spend building the bulk of my army. After that I just bring about 40 of my most powerful units (usually Walkers at that stage of the game) right to the enemy's doors and there is nothing they can do.

See, my units can unload from dropship and attack the defenders at the very same turn, and they do not unload from the transport while doing so, meaning that when the city eventually falls I can move them to the captured base and defend it if needed or prepare to invade another city next turn. If I pick certain special abilities which allow my dropships to travel through the forests and rocky tiles at double speed, I can travel from base to base (they are usually 4-5 tiles away from each other) conquering the enemy with ease. Smaller factions are destroyed in the same turn I declare war on them.

Drop troopers are not nearly that overpowered because of their inability to paradrop and attack at the same time, allowing the bunkers and/or other artillery units to soften them a bit. With dropships, enemy defences never have a chance.

Thats rigth, and now imagin the dimensiongate have the possibility to send troops to every part of the map...like AnotherPacifist suggest...would be very unfair.

 

[Monaldinio]

I really, really don't like the fact that fungal towers with their 3 minions can spawn any time right next to a city, when all I have are flame throwers. It just doesn't give you enough time to mount a defense, and a blockade just kills your city before it has a chance to expand its cross. And this just ruined a nearly perfect game of Peacekeepers when I had almost a whole continent to myself except for Zakharov--lost 2 out of 4 cities in a row even with 3 defenders each (one of them an expert chopper), and I was only at -0.4 for planet attitude but running terraformed.

Can you please make it so that fungal spawns happen more so on the outskirts of a fat cross rather than next to a city, unless you're at -3 or 4 planet attitude (by then you should have enough production to mount an offense)?

That fungal towers spawn right next to a city is, in my opion, rigth. Even though it can be a pain in the neck! But think about it, it is consequentially that the native Live pullulated in the "Pampa"?!?! The native Life is the answer of your environmental pollution...and the pollutioin is a result of townspeople...