FF 0.43 Bug Thread

[sable_twilight]

I'm running Vista on a Dell XPS-720 and I got the same hang-up going from turn 151 to 152. Never did make it to turn 152.
I don't know if this means anything, but I was able to enter into world builder during the 'waiting for other civilizations' but couldn't zoom in and out.

Running XP myself, so it's not an OS related issue. And yes, I could get into the world builder as well - after a bit of a wait - but could not do anything since the cursor was stuck on the turning world.

 

[xienwolf]

Shows how well I read that the first time through. Hadn't read it as being a WoC, but as being a massive onset of between turn lag I'll see if I can solve anything with the WoC catchup

 

[XplorR]

I went back in and deleted a few civilizations with WB to see if one of them was causing the hang up. I narrowed it down to the Archos when they were eliminated the game had no problem getting to turn 152.

 

[sable_twilight]

I went back in and deleted a few civilizations with WB to see if one of them was causing the hang up. I narrowed it down to the Archos when they were eliminated the game had no problem getting to turn 152.

Thank you that worked for that game. I got rid of all the Archos cities and was able to get to turn 152 as well. Interesting. Any idea what they might be trying to do during that turn? World spell perhaps? (What is their world spell anyway?)

I tried eliminating the Archos in an Infernal game I was having the same problem with and it still hung up. So I do not think it's only the Achros that can cause this problem. I'll test with eliminating other civs when I get time.

 

[XplorR]

To soon for the Archos' world spell. Snipped from their write-up...

There is one other important size-level for the Nest - size 15. This is the minimum size required to cast their world-spell, which brings their Hero unit "Mother" into the world

But they had just taken over a Chislev city and maybe the barbarians might have considered them to powerful and broke the truce with them. Honestly it's just a guess on my part. But something weird must have gone on with them.

 

[Vehem]

But they had just taken over a Chislev city and maybe the barbarians might have considered them to powerful and broke the truce with them. Honestly it's just a guess on my part. But something weird must have gone on with them.

It's quite possibly a case that the AI is trying to do something obscure which is causing it to loop (such as when the main mod had issues with units that could build improvements but not roads) - Xienwolf has been working to clean up a large number of assertations in a debug version of the DLL however, so he's now able to step through the DLL code and investigate what exactly is happening far better than anyone has been able to previously.

 

[XplorR]

Was that when the build camp was removed from the Recon units? Fall Further is a great mod mod, but the level of complexity must be overwhelming at times. So it's nice to hear that the debug tools are getting better too.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The ability to build camps was removed from recon units once it was discovered that it was a source of an infinite AI loop. I believe that technically allowing hunters to build roads would have also solved it.

 

[arkham4269]

Finished probably my fastest game of FfH/FF ever (8 hours and change) and just had a few comments.

1. Not a bug, but will the FF races get entries in Victory screen?

2. I'm still really wondering what is up with how the game places the Infernals. Since I have an old machine, I was playing on a small Big-Small map with Islands mixed in. Now the Archos brought the Infernals into the Erebus and while there were buckets of islands, many large enough for 2-3 cities, the game placed them on a spur of land that allowed the Infernals only one extra square of land beyond the square Dis was in! So not only couldn't they expand, but about 20 turns later, they got wiped out by Buboes!

3. Which brings up my next question/gripe: shouldn't the AC 'horsemen of the Apocolypse tend to go after good races? Or are they there to punish the wicked? Regardless, you'd think they should avoid the Infernals since they are sort of on the same 'team' as it were.

4. Found that the AI has a funny way of developing it's lands. Notice that my vassal by conquest, the Archos, were building forts on top of mana nodes and even the Svartalfar allowed cottages/hamlets to form on mana nodes. Not sure how that is supposed to help their Civ.

5. Not a bug per se, but sometimes the AI needs to suspend worker actions during war since they keep on improving their Civ and get whacked with ease instead of riding out the war in a city, ready to go to work when peace breaks out.

6. The Khazad spent so much time getting the RoK that they didn't get another city built until the turn before Khazad was overrun. Shouldn't the AI at least get another city built before embarking on a big Wonder project?

Any chance of barbarian zombies? They'd hit you and then you'd get a chance to get a modified enraged promotion that would turn you into a zombie. Units killed by zombies would become another zombie unit. How can you have a great game w/o hordes of zombies! Maybe after awhile you get faster "28 Days" zombies who will chase after your units!

 

[xienwolf]

1. Do you mean the Trophies screen?

2. I've had games where it placed me on a single tile island with no land in sight on turn 0. So it could be worse I guess... Haven't looked at how it selects his spawn point to be honest.

3. They hate everyone. They kill everyone. Though the Infernals should start at peace with the barbarians and have a VERY hard time breaking it (since their score sucks), so that is quite interesting. But not really an issue in the future.

4. Actually I've been looking at what the AI considers the "Best Build" for tiles, and unfortunately it doesn't like to build ANYTHING unless there is a resource on the tile. So it defaults to forts. I'm amazed they ever build anything else to be honest.

5. The issue there is letting workers get defensive strength. AI is too stupid to defend them. I'll try to remember to find the check and change it from checking for 0 defensive strength to also checking for UNITAI_WORKER.

6. Wonder project? You mean Tech Path don't you? Anyway, we're trying to teach the AI to tech properly right now, but till we have it nailed down we are leaving the base FfH beeline-forces in place.

7. Sounds like a nice mod-mod and/or scenario. But could easily be a nuisance in the epic game unless made fairly rare.

 

[arkham4269]

1. Do you mean the Trophies screen?

Why yes, yes I do?

2. I've had games where it placed me on a single tile island with no land in sight on turn 0. So it could be worse I guess... Haven't looked at how it selects his spawn point to be honest.

Well on one hand it really blows if you want to take over the Infernals, but more to the point I don't understand why they never seem to spawn somewhere good? The only time this seemed to happen was on a standard Erebus map. Most of the time, I've seen them deposited on some icy wasteland even though there land-masses w/no player but barbs on it. Wouldn't the Infernals want to spawn near barb cities so they can have them revolt and come over to the Dark Side?

4. Actually I've been looking at what the AI considers the "Best Build" for tiles, and unfortunately it doesn't like to build ANYTHING unless there is a resource on the tile. So it defaults to forts. I'm amazed they ever build anything else to be honest.

Well I thought at first that the AI was building forts over areas it couldn't exploit at the time (didn't have the tech) but would exploit later. This never seemed to happen.

6. Wonder project? You mean Tech Path don't you? Anyway, we're trying to teach the AI to tech properly right now, but till we have it nailed down we are leaving the base FfH beeline-forces in place.

Yes, in reading your reply, I realized that learning a tech would in no way keep the dwarves from building a settler. From what I could tell, they had built lots of units, but no settler. The only thing I could think of was for some reason bear lairs seemed to have spawned really early in this game (I didn't have the plus-up on animals on but I did have Living World) and maybe some of his settlers got eaten.

In watching the reply, I'm always amazed at how slow the AI expands (except for the Hippus) - I'm always rushing to try to grap some prime real estate before the AI gets it (like it would in vanilla BTS) and I almost always find that I needn't have rushed. =/ I don't know, it just seems like the AI should at least build one extra city early just to keep from getting whacked. I think that's what happened to the Illians in the game I last played on the Erebus map; they did the Samhain ritual prior to building another city and thus were easy pickings for the Elohim who had expanded to 3 cities in that time.

7. Sounds like a nice mod-mod and/or scenario. But could easily be a nuisance in the epic game unless made fairly rare.

I hope you don't think I'm really down on you guys with all this feedback. It hit me the other day that with I can't remember the last time I played a regular game of Civ.

In regard to the zombies, with the Necro-Christi mod on hiatus, your our only hope! I was thinking that you could at least make it so you only have extra zombies if your unit is killed. This *IS* a magical game and I'm sure they have better ways to cure being killed.

Last bit, the Civlopedia says the Sidar hate the undead but they don't really do anything about it it seems to me. Plus pyre zombies aren't much of a zombie and the diseased corpses seem more like skeletons with flesh on them instead of a 'classic' zombie. Beyond the vampire elite of the Calibim, who does the Sidar hate? Would it be the Scions?

 

[xienwolf]

If the dwarves in question where the khazad, they won't build settlers till they have a fair amount of gold saved up so that their vaults don't crush them.

 

[Sarisin]

3. They hate everyone. They kill everyone. Though the Infernals should start at peace with the barbarians and have a VERY hard time breaking it (since their score sucks), so that is quite interesting. But not really an issue in the future.

.

You're joking with this response, aren't you, xienwolf?

In my games, AI civs with the Barbarian trait are usually lowest in score AND they are ALWAYS at war with the barbarians. The Infernals eventually get a higher score, but I can't remember a game where they were not at war with the barbs.

I'm not sure what makes them declare war, but clearly the score has nothing to do with it.

 

[Vehem]

You're joking with this response, aren't you, xienwolf?

In my games, AI civs with the Barbarian trait are usually lowest in score AND they are ALWAYS at war with the barbarians. The Infernals eventually get a higher score, but I can't remember a game where they were not at war with the barbs.

I'm not sure what makes them declare war, but clearly the score has nothing to do with it.

Sounds odd - I've not seen anything similar, though I have seen the Archos kill every nation on their continent, get a high enough score to lose barb-peace and then get hammered by the barbarians spawning on their mostly uninhabited continent...

As Xienwolf mentioned though - neither issue should be as much of a problem in 044, assuming we can track down the remaining CtD(s)...

 

[Sarisin]

Sounds odd - I've not seen anything similar, though I have seen the Archos kill every nation on their continent, get a high enough score to lose barb-peace and then get hammered by the barbarians spawning on their mostly uninhabited continent...

As Xienwolf mentioned though - neither issue should be as much of a problem in 044, assuming we can track down the remaining CtD(s)...

You've never seen a game where the Clan and/or Charadon are at war with the barbs despite being at the bottom of the scores?

I don't recall the Archos - it seems like ages since I played FF waiting for the update.

 

[Manamus]

I use vista and cannot load this mod as well. I think you need to have a full install. Instead of utilizing the FFH mod's prior instal, it should all be in it's own folder with no dependancies. That would probably fix it or make it easier to troubleshoot. FFH has it's own patches and modmods that may be interfering with Fall Further.
For me it couldnt find FFH's folder or any of my civ folders. Too much preconditioning requirements.

 

[BeefontheBone]

It IS independent - the installer copies the FfH folder (previous version needed, currently) then overwrites and adds as needed. I suspect you've got the most recent version of FfH, not the one on which FF is currently based.

Not doing it this way would require you download as much data as the first mod again (plus possibly the media pack - urgh), eating everyone's bandwidth.

 

[arkham4269]

I seem to be having trouble with the Scions. Either the randomizer in my system is totally shot or something is wrong.

So far, I've never had any Scion unit generate a Reborn due to combat...ever. At first I though that maybe the Slavery civic was interfering with this by generating slaves instead of Reborn so I played a game without that civic and still never had any Reborn come about due to combat.

Since I've noticed that at a certain point in the mid-game, the Awakened sort of stop coming, it sort of makes it very difficult to grow your cities in order to be able to create the army needed later in the game.

Plus, I seem to recall seeing posts about Halfmorn being nerfed. It seems so to me in that I haven't had a werewolf get spawned by him in a long, long time even though I use him constantly.

BTW, I also notice my Scion game slowing down markedly in the late mid-game and this time I didn't create ANY haunted lands since I seem to recall posts saying that it was causing the AI to check for stuff and slow it way down. I'm playing on a Win-XP system on a small and/or standard map with only 5 players currently and I'm getting enough of a slow down between turns that I can read a page out of a book between turns. There isn't any Hell terrain either so I'm a bit at a loss of what is slowing the game down.

 

[xienwolf]

If I remember right the last official release had a bug which prevented gaining units via combat. Pretty sure there is a temporary fix from Tarquelne buried somewhere in the thread.

 

[Tarquelne]

So far, I've never had any Scion unit generate a Reborn due to combat...ever.

Yep - that's a bug in the dll. The Werewolf problem you mention is part of it. While I'm blissfully ignorant about the SDK here's a python-based work-around for Reborn combat spawning.

EDIT: Whoops, wrong bug fix. That's for the True Pilgrim's forgotten spell.

Just a sec... the fix for Reborn combat spawning is here. Rather than a download it's instructions for a couple of bits of cut-and-paste.

Since I've noticed that at a certain point in the mid-game, the Awakened sort of stop coming, it sort of makes it very difficult to grow your cities in order to be able to create the army needed later in the game.

There's a total-pop based cut-off. Intended gameplay factor - For increasing your population you need to switch to Cathedral of Rebirth, or just conquest.