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FfH D&D 5e

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Diavolo Rosso, Sep 1, 2014.

  1. Megaman_zx

    Megaman_zx Dark Lord of the Sith

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    awesome!!!!

    hey btw, i had a question about how you integrated civ 4/ffh2 concepts with dnd concepts, in particular, maps, technology and units..... (i have made my own custom rules for this stuff, but would love to hear your ideas on the topics)

    for example... are there no swordsmen/axemen until smelting (or whatever the technology is called) is researched... if the party is in uninhabited wilderness completely free from harm on the ffh2 map, does the party have a safe night in the woods? (not to mention the aspect of time between the 2... how much dnd time is one civ 4 turn) how strong is a warrior compared to an axeman in dnd.. what are their respective CR's (that one could be answered pretty easily) so what is the difference between a knight and a heavy infantry (that is harder to find in the MM)

    once i finish the custom "prestige classes" stonewarden/dragon slayer/battlemaster/vicar/etc. i will try to post them somewherr
     
  2. Diavolo Rosso

    Diavolo Rosso Lord Giggles

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    i don't have a seemless system for integrating D&D into a game of civ, but i have thought about it. I've toyed with the idea of 2 levels per strength of a unit. But when it comes down to it, I really only use Civ as a map and a source of ideas. I get more in depth in my blog about overland travel, keying locations to squares, etc. There are posts in the works about sea travel, too. Looking forward to seeing those prestige classes.
     
  3. Megaman_zx

    Megaman_zx Dark Lord of the Sith

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    hehe... i've learned alot with this first game... and i am in the process of genning a new world for a more in depth, streamlined and interesting world (possibly integrating ffh racial traits like orcish fire resistance and illian cold resistance into character creation)... it may be a couple more weeks before i get the prestige classes tho.. the idea is that they would be more like equipable items (i.e you can only have 1, and it doesn't level with you), they each require a quest to achieve, and they should be no better than a feat, or 3rd level class path/feature

    edit: i've been trying to integrate everything from the civ map into my dnd game with varying results (haven't run into much opposition yet, so i haven't been able to properly test it... the party has stayed in friendly territory and cities so far) but i am proud of the way i handled time. I played on marathon difficulty, and made it so that every turn before the start of the campaign is 1 year, and every turn after the start is a week. Since i started on turn 925 that means that it has been 925 years since the end of winter (pretty realistic in my opinion) and i can list which year cities were founded/the infernal pact made/mercurian gate constructed and after the start date each turn is a week (since i am in marathon that means it still takes months to discover a new technology) and traveling from city to city feels more realisitc, taking weeks (or months through wilderness) as opposed to days in most dnd games i've played... of course there are all kinds of improvements like farms/hamlets/foresters and hunters lodges, that the party can stop at to rest, but if they put forth the effort to travel to a city, i can reward them with a pretty realistc and lively cityscape.

    wow rambled on a bit there... obviously i'm excited... loving the blog too!!!
     
  4. Diavolo Rosso

    Diavolo Rosso Lord Giggles

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    thanx mega. I think what I like even more than keying locations to squares on the map is making random encounter tables. But I don't just throw random monsters together, I have a little fun with it. Each entry is a distant clue to the environment. Like for the area around Haven,
    Spoiler :
    the encounter table is made almost exclusively of creatures that were created by Patrian archmages in the age of magic. Some are medium to hard encounters, and some deadly. It's just a little indicator that the game world has a history and it can kill you if your not careful. I still have fond memories of a player death caused by an exploding pyre zombie. :satan:
     
  5. Megaman_zx

    Megaman_zx Dark Lord of the Sith

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    I've definitely learned a lot since this was my first game dming dnd (lots of prior experience dming other games, and playing dnd)... anyways, i'm going to make the prestige classes since i've already balanced my current campaign for having them, but i really don't like the idea and would ideally convert to a system similar to your cleric domains where each class has one or more new FFH class options that are balanced (i know asking alot)

    one thing i have been rethinking is the races...
    FFH has: humans, orcs, dwarves (mountain and hill) elves (svartalfar, ljosalfar, and the not elves), centaurs, lamias, knolls/musteval, satyrs, and lizardmen(not to mention what i see as nonplayable races like frostlings, elementals, angels and demons... as well as the extinct aifons)
    DnD has: dwarf (mountain and hill), elf (wood, dark, and high), human, halfling (lightfoot, and stout), dragonborn, gnome (forest, rock, and deep) half elf, half orc, tiefling (and aasimar with dmg)... not to mention elemental evil race: aarakocra, goliath, genasi (earth, water, wind, fire)

    so the question is... how do you reconcile the races?
    just brainstorming here, but here are my ideas: (dnd race on left matching to ffh race)

    Dwarf: there are mountain and hill dwarves in both dnd and FFh (no problem here.. although giving hill dwarves rock gnome racial stats makes sense to me as well [without the small size of course]

    Elf: Since there are three types of elves in both ffh and dnd, i am tempted to say wood=ljosalfar, dark=svartalfar, and high=not elves (rare tho they may be)...problem is the svartalfar and ljosalfar are both the same race, and tho the not elves may have been changed they are extremely rare, and probably not even technically elven by dnd standards. (so for now i am taking the easy way out)

    Human: same everywhere... duh, no change here... (although i feel like using the optional feat rules and choosing certain feats and skills for the members of different nations, but that's just getting into nitpicking and the players are free to choose as they wish)

    Halfling: this is a hard one... in my game i just said that they exist everywhere humans exist and have never been able to create their own unique culture or empire... but... we may be able (with some good old fashioned reskinning) be able to integrate them into the ffh world without breaking lore. the Mustevans are the mouse/dog people the kuriotates use as their recon units, i imagine it would only take a minimal amount of tweeking to change the halfling to the mustevan.

    Dragonborn: seems easy enough... they are lizardmen, problem for me is that dragonborn can breath fire, and the lizardmen can't so either they are some form of advanced lizardmen or you remove their only advantage as a race.... again , i'll take the easy way out and break lore a bit to accomodate them, but i have also been playing around with the idea of saying that their stats fit lamias (who are commonly kuriotate casters)

    Gnome: SUPER TRICKY... in my game i said that gnomes were the elven version of halflings, but since we are trying to keep things lore friendly, we run into some reskinning issues. My 1st idea is to reskin forest gnomes as satyrs (beast speach and illusion seem to fit them well enough) rock gnomes may replace hill dwarves... or possibly just be another caste of dwarven society... deep gnomes have no place in the lore as i see it... maybe they are chosen of kilmorph cuz stone camoflauge and enhanced darkvision, but that makes little sense to me, and i would probably just omit all the elemental evil races.

    Half elf, and half orc: simply a mix of the human and orc/elven races... no reason they can't exist, although maybe give the half orc some kind of fire resist (as long as its balanced)

    Tiefling and Aasimer: if humans can have babies with orcs and elves, they can do it with angels and demons... as long as hyborem and basium are in the game, these races can exist just fine.

    missing races: FFH- orcs, centaurs, lamia (maybe) dnd- all elemental evil races

    Playable orcs is a tricky issue, and there may be some way to reconcile goliath with ffh orc, but it would require a bit more work and would be hardly recognizable as a goliath anymore, lamia could be a reskined dragonborn, or perhaps one or more of the genasi... centaur.... um... probably will remain a nonpayable/monster race.
     
  6. Diavolo Rosso

    Diavolo Rosso Lord Giggles

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    My solution for this in in the Erebus Player's Guide pg. 50. Kael said the Luchuirp are gnomes, but he called them dwarves for the mod because he thought players might not see a distinction in game play. Aasimar exist, read the Beltane cycle. Thessa's husband is one. There are no Tieflings explicitly but their are cambions. In my game I used the Stigmata of the Unborn as the explanation for the existence of the Tieflings. I think I mentioned what I did with Dragonborn in an earlier post. Halflings don't exist but can just be added as another race of the Kuriotate empire. For elves and dwarves I just said pick any subrace to play. I don't see a reason to have the subraces exist in game at all apart from character sheet stats. Also, you don't even have to allow races outside the PHB. No need to reinvent the wheel if you don't want to. ;)
     
  7. Megaman_zx

    Megaman_zx Dark Lord of the Sith

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    yep... the only problem i have with the phb, is that it doesn't include various FFH races like mustevan, playable orcs, and lamias, and certain things like dragonborn firebreath doesn't fit FFh lore at all (at least in my opinioin), not to mention the weird FFH racial traits in the game like elven weakness to cold damage and orcish fire resistance... i feel like a conprehensive FFH players handbook would have to consider these differences (and considering means balancing... and for me balancing means reskinning [cuz im lazy])
     
  8. Diavolo Rosso

    Diavolo Rosso Lord Giggles

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    I'd use gnolls for mustevals dmg pg 282. go to the same page for orcs. do your players really want to play lamias, lol?
     
  9. Megaman_zx

    Megaman_zx Dark Lord of the Sith

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    The thought process with the races was that erebus should be it's own unique setting: eberron has warforged, dark sun has thri-kreen, erebus has it's own unique twists on the common races, and some of its own. although u r right, lamia are really lame
     
  10. Diavolo Rosso

    Diavolo Rosso Lord Giggles

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    Well there's nothing wrong with that if you want to write it up. You can use the DMG to tweak or make new races. It'd be great to see some races made specifically for FfH.

    Also, a friend of mine put up a great video on his youtube page endorsing my blog! I embedded it in my blog if you want to check it out.
     
  11. Megaman_zx

    Megaman_zx Dark Lord of the Sith

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    I guess i'll post a bunch of secrets/info about my game... before i do that, 1 quick question... where did u get your map? because i have searched the scenario screen and haven't found a huge map with all 21 civs.... (except for 1 on magister mod, which i am not particulaly fond of)

    pre preface: i made some mistakes when genning the world, main one was not including all the civs. the ones not included are: bannor, balseraph, calabim, sheim, sidar, and i think that's it.

    mainly i want to talk about the players in the campaign, but before i do, i have to talk about a lot of secrets/differences that happened in my world because i genned it randomly and played for 925 turns (on marathon)

    first secret/lore difference: I've been playing as the grigori and was landlocked to a peninsula, so, in order to expand my borders and compete as a nation, i needed to expand into the ocean... luckily for me, i found an australia sized island off the coast of the hippus territory to the south. Since the first city i built on the island was named Edge, i called this area (which now has 5 or 6 cities) the Edge Colonies. I played with barbarian world, so the island was swarming with barbarians, and the entire work force on the island is made up of orcish slaves. Life on the Edge (pun totally intended) is completely different from the civilized safe life on the grigori mainland, and i thought it was cool to have people from the same unified nation with completely different world views.

    Second Secret/lore difference: The Khazad are evil.... yep, completely evil. The khazad drifted to OO, and eventually gave in to the council of esus, so it is really rare to meet a hardy honorable mountain dwarf. They are usually stereotyped as backstabbers, and short angry people who live in the shadows. The hippus now worship ashen veil, and the once honorable horse lords have degenerated into ruthless raiders (similar to the mongol hordes). They have been beat back by most of the other nations, but they are still feared for their lightning quick attacks and ruthless fighting prowess.

    Third Secret/ Lore difference: The infernal city of Dis arose within the malakim territory. This has transformed the somewhat peaceful religious desert dwellers into hardened paladins and crusaders who have no choice but to fight against the infernals or lose everything they care about.

    The characters

    Aron Huxley: The bastard child of one of the grigori adventurers sent to the colonies to clear it of orcs. He was shipped to the mainlad at an early age, but instead of a life of safety, he found himself in the Midgar slums, and grew up learning to steal. Eventually he became the leader of a small bandit gang, whose one rule was "no killing". Thinking he had gone soft, his second in command Ulf led a coup, which killed all the bandits loyal to Aron, and ended in the loss of Aron's eye. He has given up on his "no killing" rule and now seeks revenge on Ulf and the bandits who betrayed him.

    Baern Ironwal: An old mountain dwarf born at the beginning of their descent into evil, he was raised in the ways of kilmorph, and quickly abandoned life with the Khazad to raise a family with the grigori. After many happy years as a successful smith, he watched his entire family murdered by bandits and his pride and joy (a shield made in memory of Kilmorph and the mountain dwarves of old) was stolen.

    Casteron: One of the Svartalfar by birth, his mother grew sick of the sadistic society in which she lived and sought refuge from the grigori in exchange for a grimoire stolen from her people. While staying on the edge of grigori territory planning the trade, her family was attacked by dark elf hunters and the whole family was murdered except for casteron, who opened the book and found that it contained knowledge on a way to contact and gain power from Hastur Lord of Nightmares, Casteron used this power to defeat the hunters and now seeks more dark power, and insight so that he can return his family to him.

    Fahren Sayoshant: A malakim paladin searching for infernals, and perhaps a secret on how to kill them. He has traveled to the other side of the world so that he can learn some method of dealing with the Infernal threat within his homeland.

    Klintok Coldporridge: A half Orc, born and raised in the colonies, he joined many of the merchant ships as a gaurd and cook, taking jobs wherever he could find them. Despite the bitter racism he is faced with, he always keeps a smile, and quick remark at the ready, and his strong shield arm will protect any companion he trusts.

    secret edit: one of my players was interested in noble houses in cahir abbey, so i used my elohim name generator below to generate the names of some notable houses... just because the calabim aren't a civilization doesn't mean vampires don't exist, and flauros and alexis are definitely somewhere.... anyways, i generated a few interesting names, then i generated house Floros.... sounds like Flauros, guess i found out where they are hiding!!! i added a house Alexei, and now the plyers have a really cool secret to discover, not to mention a whole lot of history behind the calabim hiding within the elohim capital.
     
  12. Megaman_zx

    Megaman_zx Dark Lord of the Sith

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    one more thing... languages... I love how Nikis Knight, put info on each nation's language so that there is a lore friendly alternative to Common/elvish/dwarven.

    My question is more about real life languages that inspire the names used in ffh. What modern language could you use to derive names for a Calabim, or Sheim?

    I have messed around with this a little and modern greek names seem to fit the Elohim pretty well, but i would like your opinion on which modern, or ancient languages correspond to the various fantasy civilizations of FFH
     
  13. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Really? Thieflings are supposed to be half human half demon hybrids. So doesn't Mardero qualify?
     
  14. Diavolo Rosso

    Diavolo Rosso Lord Giggles

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    As I understand it, not exactly. Tieflings are descendants of those hybrids according to D&D lore. The hybrids themselves in FfH are cambions, and might be so in D&D too - I don't have a Monster Manual handy. The generations that follow the hybrid are the Tieflings. In my game I made the Tieflings the deformed children of the Sheiam borne in the year after the Stigmata of the Unborn. It seemed like a good fit.

    Here's something I put together (using Kael's comments) for a player in my campaign. It's the result of researching his people's past, and I wrote it in the voice of Elder Methyl.

    “Those called Tieflings are one of the rarest sentient races on Erebus, some argue they should be relegated to myth like the dragonborn as most have never laid eyes on one. I know for certain they are real, having spent several weeks observing their ways. Despite their devilish appearance, they live their day to day lives as most other races I’ve encountered. Yet the story of their origin is quite different from those of other races.

    “Whereas every race has a creation myth, most explicitly state they were created by their gods. The Tiefling race claims they were made by demons, which is met with as much scorn as their appearance. However, they do not take pride in their creation myth and instead bear it as a curse. They tell of an event, called the Stigmata of the Unborn.

    “It was the year 28 in the then new Age of Rebirth. There was once a city in which a cult of cabalists made pacts with demons. These demons then corrupted the city, filling it with such hatred and animosity that unborn children began to be possessed by infernal and unsanctified spirits. The marks of this possession were open gaping sores, horns, tails, and other physical deformities as well. The birth of these children aroused even more hatred and fighting among the people. Some were taken from their parents and killed, other mothers were blamed for the sickness and dragged through the streets. The name of this city has been lost, yet all accounts are certain it was located in what is now the Sheiam Empire.

    “The children that survived became powerful leaders of the next generation. Their offspring also possessed many of the same deformities, commonly curling horns, thick tails, and pupil-less eyes. Eventually these leaders were overthrown and the offspring relegated to slavery. Some decades later there was a slave uprising followed by a mass exodus. They were harried by the armies of their former slavers, who gave chase due to the theft of a revered tome by the Tiefling elders. Adapting to the desert, the tribes were able to so harry their pursuers that they gave up the chase.

    “The Tiefling elders then recounted their people’s journey north into the Desert of Myrh, where they wandered for generations in search of a prophesied ‘promised land’ which they claim they have not found to this day. The particular tribe I studied has said some of their community broke away, growing weary of the desert in their wanderings, and migrating to fairer climates. I imagine they are met with hostility and fear due to their frightening appearance. The resident Malakim population tolerates them, allowing the Tieflings to create their own communities as long as they do not infringe upon the Malakim’s own sacred lands and cities.

    “My attempts to gain access to this tome, in addition to the exact nature of the prophecy and their promised land have been blocked. The Tiefling elders say it is only for a select few of their own kind to know, and that it is for my own protection as well as theirs.”
     
  15. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Are you sure? Admittedly my lore knowledge is restricted to 3.5 ED. But I distinctly remember there not being a distinction between direct descendants and their descendants. And besides, there is no reason why someone like Mardero could not just keep doing what his father did.
     
  16. Diavolo Rosso

    Diavolo Rosso Lord Giggles

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    Haven't looked at the 3.5 lore in a long time, but there is a distinct entry in the 5e Monster Manual for Cambions. It's possible that both Tieflings and Cambions are hybrids. D&D Lore isn't self-contained but a mish-mash of lore from multiple settings and so is a little contradictory at times.
     
  17. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    It appears you are right and I was wrong. Upon looking at the data this is what I can find for thieflings:

    D&D 3.5 Monster Manual I, Page 209:
    D&D 3.5 Planar Handbook, Page 15:
    And Cambions:
    D&D 3.5 Monster Manual I, page 147:

    That's the only reference I can find to their origin at all.
     
  18. Megaman_zx

    Megaman_zx Dark Lord of the Sith

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    dnd 5e PHB pg. 42
     
  19. Diavolo Rosso

    Diavolo Rosso Lord Giggles

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    In the end all that really matters is how you use them in your campaign. Being true to the lore is tempting but is often an unnecessary restriction on ideas. I've found with enough creativity there's almost always a way to rationalize new ideas into established lore.
     
  20. Megaman_zx

    Megaman_zx Dark Lord of the Sith

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    yep... in my campaign, aasimar were children of angels and tieflings were children of demons (kinda like half orcs with the whole rape background)... although the stigmata of the unborn thing is genius if i do say so myself ;P
     

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