[MOD] FFH TweakMod

I just stumbled across this thread. I really like what you are doing Rystic. Subtle changes, if you will, to epic FfH that are good for the playability of the mod. Some of the other modmods change FfH too much for my taste.
 
I like it, I just wish they added a few more exotic units- such as Bear Cavalry, Griffon riders- etc...
Stuff you wouldn't get too often, but nice to see it if you did.

Also, is the betterAI mod included in this, or just the economic AI?
 
Finished my Elohim (Enion) game this morning. I think your tweaks make them very interesting and fun to play. Even though the defensive, diplomatic, altar-chasing game is not quite my favorite playstyle, I still had a blast with them, which says a lot about the changes you've made. In base FFH I think the Elohim are about the most boring civ out there, as they have almost nothing special going for them. The Tweakmod Elohim aren't the most unique civ in the game, but they do have a playstyle of their own. Specific thoughts:

1) With Spiritual, Enion now plays a lot like Varn in that his military strength will come from the Divine line of techs rather than from the metal line (Combat V Priests, not Combat I Champions), which is a Very Good Thing (any changes that discourage yet another Champion-fest are great in my book). Not to say he's a Varn-clone--he's actually much weaker in science than Varn, as he doesn't have malakim-boosted floodplains near his starting spot and he can't go Financial, but he gets more Priests due to the Reliquary, the Chancel, and the inability to switch off of Philosophical. It's a good balance.

2) The mechanic of going after Unique Features makes the Elohim midgame really interesting. At the point where I would normally be settling in for intense teching with any other civ, I instead found myself looking around the map trying to figure out which Unique Features I could claim, and that pursuit drove my tech choices all throughout the mid-game. Do I gear up to invade the heathen dwarves controlling the Dragon Bones? Do I tech Optics to settle on another continent near the Maelstrom? Do I antagonize the Calabim by founding a city in their territory just to claim the Standing Stones from them? (The answer was yes to all of these questions.)

3) I imagine it would be different for Ethne, but for Enion the dynamic between Priests and Monks was a really interesting one. I started out building Monks at Philosophy, because I didn't yet have access to Priesthood or a religion. Once I got those things, I started building Priests and figured that I wouldn't need Monks and their lack of free xp anymore, and so my military was Priest-heavy throughout the midgame. But after I got Righteousness and settled near my 4th unique feature, I found that Monks were desirable again, since they were very strong (9str when Blessed) and could come out of my Altar city with 18xp. So essentially, Monks were the best unit choice in the early and late games, but not in the midgame. I don't think I've seen a unit whose usefulness waxed and waned like that. (Of course, I imagine that Ethne would prefer Monks throughout most of the game, as she gets their bonuses faster and doesn't get as much xp for Preists.)


Overall, I love the changes to this civ!
 
Rystic,

Any chance you will merge in Arcane Mastery if only to lighten Honor's workload. (Plus, I don't think he has updated in a while.)
 
Broken Hawk said:
I just stumbled across this thread. I really like what you are doing Rystic. Subtle changes, if you will, to epic FfH that are good for the playability of the mod. Some of the other modmods change FfH too much for my taste.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I know how you feel -- that's what motivated me to make this mod. I've always felt that a lot of things had missed potential in FFH, but just needed to be slightly expanded on to make interesting, like the Grigori or the Elohim. The stated goal of this mod has always been to focus on existing problems versus adding new material.

I have to say, I doubt it would've gotten this far without the tremendous amounts of feedback from the members of the forum. Their help keeps this little project alive :)

If you're new, I suggest playing the Grigori. The Diverse trait makes them one of my new favorite teams.

arstal said:
I like it, I just wish they added a few more exotic units- such as Bear Cavalry, Griffon riders- etc...
Stuff you wouldn't get too often, but nice to see it if you did.
Click to expand...

I don't make many changes like this. When I add something, I want it to address a particular issue (eg, Blight is too high, Team X needs a better mechanic, Demagogs don't start with weapons, etc).

Also, is the betterAI mod included in this, or just the economic AI?
Click to expand...

Just the economic AI (BetterEconomy).

cabbagemeister said:
YES! I heartily approve.
Click to expand...

Blight was insane. To a size 4 city, it could give a maximum of 19 :yuck:. To a size 30 city, it could give 45 :yuck:. Combine with unhealthiness already present, and that's ~75 :yuck:. How can any city survive that?

blade117 said:
Rystic,

Any chance you will merge in Arcane Mastery if only to lighten Honor's workload. (Plus, I don't think he has updated in a while.)
Click to expand...

I don't see why not. I won't merge it into the main build, but I can provide a second download with Arcane Mastery.
 
1) With Spiritual, Enion now plays a lot like Varn in that his military strength will come from the Divine line of techs rather than from the metal line (Combat V Priests, not Combat I Champions), which is a Very Good Thing (any changes that discourage yet another Champion-fest are great in my book). Not to say he's a Varn-clone--he's actually much weaker in science than Varn, as he doesn't have malakim-boosted floodplains near his starting spot and he can't go Financial, but he gets more Priests due to the Reliquary, the Chancel, and the inability to switch off of Philosophical. It's a good balance.
Click to expand...

Disciple units are probably better for Einion because he can upgrade the Altar a lot faster (not only from him being Philosopical, but also because Spiritual doubles Reliquary's build speed).

2) The mechanic of going after Unique Features makes the Elohim midgame really interesting. At the point where I would normally be settling in for intense teching with any other civ, I instead found myself looking around the map trying to figure out which Unique Features I could claim, and that pursuit drove my tech choices all throughout the mid-game. Do I gear up to invade the heathen dwarves controlling the Dragon Bones? Do I tech Optics to settle on another continent near the Maelstrom? Do I antagonize the Calabim by founding a city in their territory just to claim the Standing Stones from them? (The answer was yes to all of these questions.)
Click to expand...

Making these little pilgrimages to Unique Features is something I've come to love. It also seems thematically appropriate for the Elohim. Although, sadly, at the moment Guardians won't spawn on water UFs (in the future they'll be able to spawn on Aifon Isle).

3) I imagine it would be different for Ethne, but for Enion the dynamic between Priests and Monks was a really interesting one. I started out building Monks at Philosophy, because I didn't yet have access to Priesthood or a religion. Once I got those things, I started building Priests and figured that I wouldn't need Monks and their lack of free xp anymore, and so my military was Priest-heavy throughout the midgame. But after I got Righteousness and settled near my 4th unique feature, I found that Monks were desirable again, since they were very strong (9str when Blessed) and could come out of my Altar city with 18xp. So essentially, Monks were the best unit choice in the early and late games, but not in the midgame. I don't think I've seen a unit whose usefulness waxed and waned like that. (Of course, I imagine that Ethne would prefer Monks throughout most of the game, as she gets their bonuses faster and doesn't get as much xp for Preists.)
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, did you ever use Devouts? I'm considering knocking them down and making them the Scout UU (2 :strength:, can explore rival borders). In their current incarnation, they're useless on the frontline. Exploring rival borders is nice, but by the time you actually build them you already know your map.

Overall, I love the changes to this civ!
Click to expand...

:)
 
Rystic said:
Out of curiosity, did you ever use Devouts? I'm considering knocking them down and making them the Scout UU (2 :strength:, can explore rival borders). In their current incarnation, they're useless on the frontline. Exploring rival borders is nice, but by the time you actually build them you already know your map.
Click to expand...

I did not use Devouts because, as you say, they are completely worthless compared to Monks and Priests. Making them scouts is one idea to fix it, though I'm not sure the Elohim need more scouting power (they already know where all the unique features are, and that's all they really care about).

I did consider building a Devout once, when I was worried about what Gabella was doing and I wanted Destroy Undead. But then I realized that a Devout doesn't have Channeling and so can't get Life II. So, an alternate suggestion: what if you gave Devouts Life II in addition to Life I? It would certainly make Devouts worthwhile to build. But maybe it would give the Elohim too much of an advantage?
 
Oh, also, i was playing around with Gibbon Goetia today. A couple of points:

1) He's listed as a Recon unit, but he can't get Poisoned Blade for some reason?

2) Did you intend for him to have Channeling III and thus access to any T3 spell he can steal the sphere for? I killed a couple of Loki's puppets with Gibbon, getting Chaos I and Mind I, and was able to promote Gibbon to Wonder and Dominate. Obviously the same thing would happen if I killed adepts of any sphere.

3) In that vein, casting Wonder with an HN unit can have some very odd results. For instance, all of the units Wonder summons get HN, except Spiderkins and Tigers do not. Also, the "casting this spell might cause war" popup always appears when you cast Wonder with an HN unit, but the only spell Wonder casts which ACTUALLY causes war is Scorch. Not Maelstrom, or Tsunami, or Crush, but Scorch.
 
cabbagemeister said:
I did not use Devouts because, as you say, they are completely worthless compared to Monks and Priests. Making them scouts is one idea to fix it, though I'm not sure the Elohim need more scouting power (they already know where all the unique features are, and that's all they really care about).
Click to expand...

Making them Scouts actually fits quite well, especially since exploring rival's borders is a good for finding a path to a Unique Feature.

1) He's listed as a Recon unit, but he can't get Poisoned Blade for some reason?
Click to expand...

That's weird.

2) Did you intend for him to have Channeling III and thus access to any T3 spell he can steal the sphere for? I killed a couple of Loki's puppets with Gibbon, getting Chaos I and Mind I, and was able to promote Gibbon to Wonder and Dominate. Obviously the same thing would happen if I killed adepts of any sphere.
Click to expand...

I never intended that to happen. I'll take it out in the next update.

3) In that vein, casting Wonder with an HN unit can have some very odd results. For instance, all of the units Wonder summons get HN, except Spiderkins and Tigers do not. Also, the "casting this spell might cause war" popup always appears when you cast Wonder with an HN unit, but the only spell Wonder casts which ACTUALLY causes war is Scorch. Not Maelstrom, or Tsunami, or Crush, but Scorch.
Click to expand...

I didn't touch Wonder. That's a problem with base FFH.
 
Rystic said:
Making them Scouts actually fits quite well, especially since exploring rival's borders is a good for finding a path to a Unique Feature.
Click to expand...

I suppose a Devout-scout upgraded to a Priest would be able to take Destroy Undead as a promotion, so that addresses my idea for them as well.
 
It works with 3.19, or so I've found. (I think)
 
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