FfH2 0.16 Balance Recommendations

[daladinn]

personally i view unyeilding order this way...

pros - yes it gives you no unhappy in a given city.

cons - you can only have 3 archmages , 3 liches , 3 golems , 1 hero
- burning 3 promotions ... law 1, 2 ,3
- said unit cant leave the city or the spell is canceled

 

[loki1232]

I agree with Daladdin.
Although would the OO be able to create infinite flesh golems with unyeilding order?

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Yes, I think so, but it would take a long time to level up so many adepts, they could probably just go win anyway.

 

[Gamestation]

I thought you could have unlimited flesh golems.

Edit: Aww I'm about two hours too late.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

There seems to be a problem with the training ability of the amurite hero (govannon?). I don't know if it's just because of the arcane trait but the way the training works now every living units get the same free xp as adepts (from channeling I). I don't think that this is either fair nor intended.

It also would be nice to have a small benefit for the spider pens in addition to the silk ressource so you get something if you build more than one. A small cultural bonus would be nice.

 

[marioflag]

It's a long time since i don't have fellowship of leaves in my cities but from civilopedia i see that in last patches there isn't any change to Archer of Leaves which i found really underpowered.
Here there is a comparison between Archer and Archer of Leaves based on FfH2 civilopedia

Archer
60 hammers
3 strenght
1 movement

1 first strike
+50% city defense
+25% hills defense

Archer of Leaves
90 hammers
3 strenght
1 movement

1 first strike
start with elven

From the description it's clear that Archer of leaves are really underpowered they are not only weaker but also more costly.
For balance reasons and storywise (they are sylvan units afterall) wouldn't be good if archer of leaves get a bonus like +100% defense in forest, +50% attack in forest or +50% defense in forest, 2 movement on forests at least they are worth the greater cost for building them.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

They already get two moves on forest as they are elven, and they don't require a building to make. That said, a reduction to 75 or so hammers might not be so bad.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Kael, is there any chance that the prophet could get moved up to the Mysticism tech? I know that tech doesn't really need to be made any more valuable, but as things stand, prophets almost never see any use from those that choose three of the five religions. Plus, adding an earlier medic might not be such a bad idea.

Another thing: I've noticed that both crossbowmen and longbowmen can be made with any of the three metals. Could you be persuaded to make the longbowmen require no metal again, but make the crossbowman be unbuildable without iron or mithril? Seems like a player unfortunate enough to lack both bronze and iron ought to be able to defend his cities at least, and crossbowmen can be very strategically valuable as a counter-unit.

 

[Arpymaster]

There should be a note on the priest telling which magic spheres they have access to.
I know it's kind of shocking to have a priest of leaves with fire III or an overlords priest with fire III, but the first time I discovered this (weeks ago) it was kind of a surprise.
And as an effect, I always end up adopting The Order to get priest who can use the wall of fire.

Also, regarding religion... it is probably hard to do to players, but one civ should not keep 100% of his priest when changing religion. Or worse keeping high priests... is like if Spain changes from Catholic to Muslim and all the clerics stay as normal, with our cardinals as happy as before. Furthermore, when I change 3 times to get priests of Leaves (to upgrade terrain), Kilmorph (enchant) and Order (burn the heretics) the priests should regard their ruler (me) as a bit of... agnostic? I don't care which religion is on my civ as long as it helps me to get my needs.

 

[katika]

You can tell what spells/spell paths a priest has access to by looking at the promotions available whenever you can promote the unit or by looking in the Civilopedia for the unit. High Priests and Inquisitors may add additional spheres.

As for religion, you already lose any religious heroes when you change your religion. I don't think the priests or disciples should desert you. I think it would be better to change the more religion is better concept from vanilla, so that you wouldn't want nonstate religion in your cities, preventing you from building other religions' priests.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Another thing: I've noticed that both crossbowmen and longbowmen can be made with any of the three metals. Could you be persuaded to make the longbowmen require no metal again, but make the crossbowman be unbuildable without iron or mithril?

I like that idea.

On a separate note, how about giving a great person point or two to hope and/or inspiration? Small effect, but it'd be a nice touch, I think.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I like that idea.

On a separate note, how about giving a great person point or two to hope and/or inspiration? Small effect, but it'd be a nice touch, I think.

There are generic GP points that don't effect the probability of which GP comes out, right? If so, I think that feature might be nice to add.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

When you take over a city with Rantine you can keep the Barbarian Forbidden Palace when you don't have one jet. Seems a bit overpowered.

Small Wonders should be destroyed by city flipping in my opinion.

 

[onedreamer]

From the description it's clear that Archer of leaves are really underpowered they are not only weaker but also more costly.
For balance reasons and storywise (they are sylvan units afterall) wouldn't be good if archer of leaves get a bonus like +100% defense in forest, +50% attack in forest or +50% defense in forest, 2 movement on forests at least they are worth the greater cost for building them.

It's clear they are underpowered because you didn't list Elf promotions. Plus you don't need to research archery and you don't need to build the archery range. They are 2 different units despite the name, the archers of the leaves are more suited for exploration, thanks to their double movement on forests, defense and strength they are an alternative to hunters with access to better promotions (if I'm not wrong they can even be upgraded to rangers ?).

 

[onedreamer]

On Kuriotats:

(sorry if this has been discussed already, this thread is now quite long)
I would suggest to make settlements able to build training yard, stable and archery range and associated units. This is mainly a balance recommendation in favor of the AI, because it tends to build city defenses in the city itself, so in the case of settlements, 99% of times I found that the AI keeps as defenders the units that escorted the settlers, without even having the chance to upgrade them. Normally when a civ with a decent army attacks Kuriotates, they loose a lot of settlements because of this. I think it wouldn't overpower Kuriotates if they would be able to build/upgrade units up to Longbowmen/Macemen in their settlements.

 

[Silverkiss]

Someone explained that the problem is that if Settlements where able to build any kind of unit, the AI would spam it and loose a lot of gold with maintenance.

 

[Gamestation]

When you take over a city with Rantine you can keep the Barbarian Forbidden Palace when you don't have one jet. Seems a bit overpowered.

Small Wonders should be destroyed by city flipping in my opinion.

How is that overpowered? Are you able to build another Forbidden Palace after capturing the Barbarian Forbidden Palace? If not, that could turn out for the worse instead if your capital was really close to the Barbarian Forbidden Palace. You lose the ability to place the small wonder in the optimal location.

 

[onedreamer]

Someone explained that the problem is that if Settlements where able to build any kind of unit, the AI would spam it and loose a lot of gold with maintenance.

I don't see where's the problem, the AI spams units with or without hubs/settlements.

 

[Silverkiss]

But they dont have anything else to build on them, so they would only build units and end up breaking their economy.

 

[onedreamer]

How is that overpowered? Are you able to build another Forbidden Palace after capturing the Barbarian Forbidden Palace? If not, that could turn out for the worse instead if your capital was really close to the Barbarian Forbidden Palace. You lose the ability to place the small wonder in the optimal location.

Well let's say that it's not a good thing in any case. But the problem is another one IMO: why would barbarians need a forbidden palace ? Would be better if they wouldn't waste time in building it at all.