Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Kael, Oct 13, 2006.
That would be a defect in the wiki entry; it should be fixed now.
Is there any good counter to the Grigori "adventurers -> mages/archmages with fire"-rush? I just tried that against a friend in MP and he got pretty squarely beaten, despite having more cities and me having no access to metal for most of the game (though admittedly I got pretty lucky, with him losing the Baron at 99.4% odds).
There's always the fire and magic resistence promotions. And, of course, the early rush. Even if you can't wipe out his Civ, you can force him to promote his adventurers down different paths.
rush him before he has mages-or choose a magic resistent civ?
ideally, play the orcish route- you can get magic resistence "and" cheap units to rush with
keep in mind- magic resistence leads right into fire resistence-so he'll be done for if your units have +120% vs fire(net)
To someone facing a Grigori hero-archmage strategy I'd suggest going for a summoner approach - with nightmares and spell extension, you'll not only have a disposable offensive force that outranges any fire spells your enemy can conjure up. Sure, they can use fireballs and meteors to annihalate your summons, but if you keep some in reserve you'll be able to toss stack after stack his way and even take out a caster if they're not very heavily protected - and if you get summoners or (even better!) eaters of dreams, fire elementals deployed from maximum range should (hopefully) be able to more or less ignore enemy offensive magic and chew up their real units.
If nothing else, you'll be able to wear down his casters' defenders as they approach your cities, and also to use channeling 3 summons, Nightmares (they have fear, making them excellent defenders against living units) and the weaker but permanent skeletons as obstacle stacks to soak up enemy attacks.
(As an added bonus, a quick nightmare or sand lion rush should catch your opponent long before he gets archmages, likely ending the war right there.)
If in doubt, go for a Magic Resistant leader and get rings of warding up ASAP - they'll stop pretty much everything arcane magic has to offer from laying waste to your cities (excepting earth and water magic, but that requires point-blank range or coastal cities), and you won't be seeing divine magic from a Grigori player.
(Disclaimer: All of the above may or may not fail miserably in practice.)
For balance, one thing comes to mind -- and I'm sure I'll post more as time goes on.. The Gypsy's need to be a LOT cheaper, move faster, or something. I have played dozens (no exageration) of games as Perpenach and I almost never build more than one Gypsy and most of the time it turns into a very slow scout that gets halfway around the map before it is either attacked and killed or finally finds a size 1 town somewhere that hasn't built a carnival. an auto explore option would be great, especially if they would automatically set up camp at the first city they come across where they can.
Grigori adventurers prometd down the Shadow path, that was a scary game. It was fun to do though.
ive tried adding the military garrison happiness to Conquest and it works out well, the conquest civic had been feeling fairly weak in light of the other civics available (especially considering the one that would make conquest amazing is in competition with it - agriculture).
Last game I played, I had three Flurry Heros, each with Combat V, Heroic Str II and City Raider III. They swept through Longbowmen and, even Heavy Crossbowmen and never had to heal more than 1-2 turns. It was, indeed, fun
If it's possible, some units should have no maintainance costs. I'm thinking primarily of summons and fireballs, but maybe Gypsy wagons too.
Lots of units have no maintenance costs. Fireball, and Wraith are two examples. Gypsy Wagon does have support costs.
The problem is that unless you read the XML directly, which units have support costs is not obvious. I intend to address this in my next update for units in the wiki.
Here is something -- If you play as Grigori and go with Leaves - then try to make a couple summoners with twincast - it isn't that great. Double summon Treant is great, build second summoner and he will be unable to summon another treant because there are already 2. Maybe a Hero with Twincast should count as 2 Summoners for the purpose of summoning skeletons/treants/vines/etc. ?
EDIT -- As pointed out below -> I'm an idiot. Not Leaves - Nature Mana.
How do you go any religion as grigori?
He probably means nature mana.
Yes you are right.
OK, Im slow on the uptake.
Checking into some python methods used in FFH2, I noticed that the definition of 'alive' does not check for the promotion 'Golem'.
It does check whether a unit is Barnaxus, so I assumed this is an unintentional omission?
def FFHIsAlive(self, pUnit):
if pUnit.getUnitCombatType() == -1:
if pUnit.getUnitCombatType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_FIRE'):
if pUnit.getUnitCombatType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_WATER'):
if pUnit.getUnitCombatType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_NAVAL'):
if pUnit.getUnitCombatType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNITCOMBAT_SIEGE'):
if pUnit.getUnitType() == gc.getInfoTypeForString('UNIT_BARNAXUS'):
Golems don't have a unitcombat type.
if pUnit.getUnitCombatType() == -1:
yes I see. (was wondering about that)
Sorry for the false alarm and thanks for the explanation.
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