ehecatzin
Emperor
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2007
- Messages
- 1,863
Finally had enough time to sit and read your idea @Lord Lakely , and I really like it as a middle ground between the "everything goes" we have right now, and a more "classic" mode from past civs. Personally I still think playing a modern civ starting from Antiquity is just as immersion breaking and nonsense as going from Maya to Bulgaria because I built some shrines.
I'm one of the weirdos that likes the civ switching, but even when the choice is there, I'd rather keep it flavourful, and I think I, like many others already do a similar thing to what you are proposing...imagining what kind of game do I want to play right a the start of the game, and choosing civ and leader accordingly. If this system was already in place I could even visualize the path I could take, (instead of going through the era start menus to glimpse it)
I really hope the devs are taking the game in a similar direction, flavourful culturally adjacent civs make for some of the most fun games. things like Han-Ming-Qing, Rome-Norman-Britain should be the norm. They've got enough fan favourites out of the game right now, that again, I hope they make a strong comeback mechanically with the first expansion: Mexica, Byzantium, Gaul, Edo Japan, Danes, Brazil, HRE, the Ottomans, Scythians, the Netherlands, etc. (and the current system could just as well be another option for people who like it)
But as it's very clear, it needs a whole bunch of civs and leaders to smooth it out. many parts of the world still could use better paths. Poor mesoamerica has to cling to Pachacuti for a leader, and he clings to mesoamerica because there's nothing for South America besides Inca.
For Mesoamerica I'd love to see as essential
Antiquity
Maya
Teotihuacan
Zapotec
Exploration
Mexica
Itza
Purepecha
Modern
Mexico
In the case of the Maya are perfectly capable of covering the Exploration Era with ease, they could go all the way to modern with Noj Kaaj Santa Cruz, but that's pushing it.
Maya- This is the classical Maya we have now, with the Yax Mutal temple complex as wonder. (man I hate "mundo Perdido" as a name)
Teotihuacan - Largest city in the continent, by a large margin, the Pyramid of the Sun is already in game, and should they ever take another look at quarters mechanically, they would be an excelent candidate for a 1 city challenge.
Zapotec - They just like the Mayans, could cover antiquity and exploration by themselves, but they are way less known, but sites like Monte Alban, Zaachila, and Guiengola, could provide inspiration for another rough terrain, mountain adjacent civ. (besides Benito Juarez, one of the main candidates for Mexican leader, was or Zapotec origin)
Mexica - Also known as "The Aztecs". Now in the game as Mexica with Tenochtitlan as independent peoples, and I'm hopefull Firaxis will leave the correct naming when they are added as a full civ. Not much to talk about them besides wondering how in the hell will they portray the canals and mix of urban an rural quarters the Mexica had going.
Purepecha - Also incorrectly called Tarascan, they were the western Mexico empire builders the Mexicas just couldn't break a bit. They have very unique ceremonial architecture, they made metal and weapon tools, and even come with a semi legendary female hero in Erendira, if Firaxis would be so inclined.
Itza- would cover the post classical period, they would get Temple of Kukulkan as a wonder ("Chichen Itza" is the name of the city not the temple, but I digress). Era wise it covers the whole Exploration era, if we take into account Maya kingdoms with strong ties to the Mayapan league, like Noh Peten, which was conquered until 1697
There's so many that at the very least should be Independent peoples, Mixtecs, Totonacs, Toltecs, Tlaxcallans, Olmecs, Otomi
and for leaders, man, there's a handfull to choose, from semi mythical, to kings, presidents, translators and Spanish conquistadors turned native, but I'm going for most representative, or very..."Firaxizeable":
Spear Thrower Owl - Teotihuacan backed ruler of Yax Mutal, could also provide a nice bridge for both Maya or Teotihuacan antiquity age.
8 Deer Jaguar Claw - Mixtec ruler that through marriages, alliances and conquest unified much of the Mixtec and Zapotec lands. (besides the name is just so metal)
Nezahualcoyotl - The Texcocan warrior philosopher king, founding member of the Mexica triple alliance, we really could use less Montys and go for Nezahualcoyotl, we even have so much of his poetry that could be used for leader dialogue, Its such awesome potential wasted on any Monty.
and two historical figures that famously "switched sides"
Malintzin - Yes I went there, the native translator for Hernan Cortez, she is such an interesting figure, still maligned to this day as a "traitor" even tho she wasn't Mexica, and if anything went from a slave to a translator, to being the face of the conquest (take a look at codexes depicting her and Cortez, she is always in front)
Gonzalo Guerrero - To balance things, a conquistador gone native, Gonzalo Guerrero was a spanish marooned on the Yucatan peninsula that also rose from captured slave to Mayan warchief, he was later found by Cortez and refused to return to Spain, he was fully Mayan by then and had family. He would resist the conquistadors early attempts to enter Yucatan.
EDIT_added Mexica description
I'm one of the weirdos that likes the civ switching, but even when the choice is there, I'd rather keep it flavourful, and I think I, like many others already do a similar thing to what you are proposing...imagining what kind of game do I want to play right a the start of the game, and choosing civ and leader accordingly. If this system was already in place I could even visualize the path I could take, (instead of going through the era start menus to glimpse it)
I really hope the devs are taking the game in a similar direction, flavourful culturally adjacent civs make for some of the most fun games. things like Han-Ming-Qing, Rome-Norman-Britain should be the norm. They've got enough fan favourites out of the game right now, that again, I hope they make a strong comeback mechanically with the first expansion: Mexica, Byzantium, Gaul, Edo Japan, Danes, Brazil, HRE, the Ottomans, Scythians, the Netherlands, etc. (and the current system could just as well be another option for people who like it)
But as it's very clear, it needs a whole bunch of civs and leaders to smooth it out. many parts of the world still could use better paths. Poor mesoamerica has to cling to Pachacuti for a leader, and he clings to mesoamerica because there's nothing for South America besides Inca.
For Mesoamerica I'd love to see as essential
Antiquity
Maya
Teotihuacan
Zapotec
Exploration
Mexica
Itza
Purepecha
Modern
Mexico
In the case of the Maya are perfectly capable of covering the Exploration Era with ease, they could go all the way to modern with Noj Kaaj Santa Cruz, but that's pushing it.
Maya- This is the classical Maya we have now, with the Yax Mutal temple complex as wonder. (man I hate "mundo Perdido" as a name)
Teotihuacan - Largest city in the continent, by a large margin, the Pyramid of the Sun is already in game, and should they ever take another look at quarters mechanically, they would be an excelent candidate for a 1 city challenge.
Zapotec - They just like the Mayans, could cover antiquity and exploration by themselves, but they are way less known, but sites like Monte Alban, Zaachila, and Guiengola, could provide inspiration for another rough terrain, mountain adjacent civ. (besides Benito Juarez, one of the main candidates for Mexican leader, was or Zapotec origin)
Mexica - Also known as "The Aztecs". Now in the game as Mexica with Tenochtitlan as independent peoples, and I'm hopefull Firaxis will leave the correct naming when they are added as a full civ. Not much to talk about them besides wondering how in the hell will they portray the canals and mix of urban an rural quarters the Mexica had going.
Purepecha - Also incorrectly called Tarascan, they were the western Mexico empire builders the Mexicas just couldn't break a bit. They have very unique ceremonial architecture, they made metal and weapon tools, and even come with a semi legendary female hero in Erendira, if Firaxis would be so inclined.
Itza- would cover the post classical period, they would get Temple of Kukulkan as a wonder ("Chichen Itza" is the name of the city not the temple, but I digress). Era wise it covers the whole Exploration era, if we take into account Maya kingdoms with strong ties to the Mayapan league, like Noh Peten, which was conquered until 1697
There's so many that at the very least should be Independent peoples, Mixtecs, Totonacs, Toltecs, Tlaxcallans, Olmecs, Otomi
and for leaders, man, there's a handfull to choose, from semi mythical, to kings, presidents, translators and Spanish conquistadors turned native, but I'm going for most representative, or very..."Firaxizeable":
Spear Thrower Owl - Teotihuacan backed ruler of Yax Mutal, could also provide a nice bridge for both Maya or Teotihuacan antiquity age.
8 Deer Jaguar Claw - Mixtec ruler that through marriages, alliances and conquest unified much of the Mixtec and Zapotec lands. (besides the name is just so metal)
Nezahualcoyotl - The Texcocan warrior philosopher king, founding member of the Mexica triple alliance, we really could use less Montys and go for Nezahualcoyotl, we even have so much of his poetry that could be used for leader dialogue, Its such awesome potential wasted on any Monty.
and two historical figures that famously "switched sides"
Malintzin - Yes I went there, the native translator for Hernan Cortez, she is such an interesting figure, still maligned to this day as a "traitor" even tho she wasn't Mexica, and if anything went from a slave to a translator, to being the face of the conquest (take a look at codexes depicting her and Cortez, she is always in front)
Gonzalo Guerrero - To balance things, a conquistador gone native, Gonzalo Guerrero was a spanish marooned on the Yucatan peninsula that also rose from captured slave to Mayan warchief, he was later found by Cortez and refused to return to Spain, he was fully Mayan by then and had family. He would resist the conquistadors early attempts to enter Yucatan.
EDIT_added Mexica description
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