Monaldinio
Prince
...icludes this mod new ships???
Final Frontier Plus
- Thread starter TC01
- Start date
God-Emperor
Deity
Compared to what?
Compared to most versions of FFP (since UUs were added long ago): no.
Compared to the original Final Frontier: yes, in that every civilization has a unique unit - but they are all variants of existing ships and use the same basic model. Some of the UUs are scaled up or down in size by about 10%, but that is such a small difference that it is not really noticeable.
Compared to most versions of FFP (since UUs were added long ago): no.
Compared to the original Final Frontier: yes, in that every civilization has a unique unit - but they are all variants of existing ships and use the same basic model. Some of the UUs are scaled up or down in size by about 10%, but that is such a small difference that it is not really noticeable.
God-Emperor
Deity
That's pretty much the standard Civ4 behavior for maps with edges.
If you are within some distance of the edge it will show it to you even if you have never actually seen it, which leads to the "unrevealed black" plots next to the background stuff with nothing over it that you get past the edge. Various features extend a bit past the edge giving you knowledge of them you probably shouldn't have. As far as I know there is nothing that can be done about any of this.
If you are within some distance of the edge it will show it to you even if you have never actually seen it, which leads to the "unrevealed black" plots next to the background stuff with nothing over it that you get past the edge. Various features extend a bit past the edge giving you knowledge of them you probably shouldn't have. As far as I know there is nothing that can be done about any of this.
Ok 
Is it intended to have endless waves of pirate ships on default games? There are a lot of open spaces in a spiral galaxy map and I barely can do anything besides defending myself. I tried to build sensor stations in the many blind spots assuming that they would be "hidden", but I was wrong... Now I'm just spamming destroyers everywhere to prevent them from appearing.
Is it intended to have endless waves of pirate ships on default games? There are a lot of open spaces in a spiral galaxy map and I barely can do anything besides defending myself. I tried to build sensor stations in the many blind spots assuming that they would be "hidden", but I was wrong... Now I'm just spamming destroyers everywhere to prevent them from appearing.
God-Emperor
Deity
The pirates are pretty well spammed out the entire game. It is worse on the spiral galaxy maps due to the central area with no stars, and it also gets worse for higher difficulty levels (possibly too much). They also get worse as the game advances in era (both in types of units and numbers), which is somewhat countered by colonization and expanding borders (since the number is proportional to the number of plots outside of everybody's borders) but, again, less so on the spiral galaxy maps.
Oddly, if you use the "productive pirate systems" option it seems to actually reduces their power slightly (as long as you don't let them control too many systems) since the ships they can actually build are often a generation behind what is being spawned but the target number for the spawning counts them all. Therefore the regular "alpha" destroyer it builds blocks a delta destroyer (or whatever) that it could have spawned.
Some adjustment to pirates may happen. The base number might be toned down slightly and the difficulty level adjustment may be made to increase a bit slower. There are already two options that increase pirate activity (the usual aggressive option that doubles the number and the new "pirate hoards" option that increases it by a much larger multiple resulting in requiring a completely different style of play), so I am thinking that in addition to the "no pirates" option that is already there we could probably use a "reduced pirates" option that cuts the number in half (a bit like the opposite of the existing aggressive option).
Spawn busting is probably not very cost effective due to the large amount of territory you have to cover on a spiral galaxy map. You can use sensor stations around the edges of the map and along the spiral arm nebulas, but their 0 strength means any that they die easily and are therefore not effective around the central area of a SG map - starabases work well but are expensive (I often build a couple to block access from some directions). Also, cruisers make excellent pirate hunters due to their higher strength (a regular cruiser is slightly stronger than a delta destroyer) but are slower (doesn't matter much for protecting routes but harder to actively hunt down pirates not on or next to one). Battlecruisers (the Brotherhood UU) are excellent for this. An, of course, you can always load a missile or two onto them for a bigger advantage. Squadrons to attack incoming pirates, especially battleships, are a good thing.
Oddly, if you use the "productive pirate systems" option it seems to actually reduces their power slightly (as long as you don't let them control too many systems) since the ships they can actually build are often a generation behind what is being spawned but the target number for the spawning counts them all. Therefore the regular "alpha" destroyer it builds blocks a delta destroyer (or whatever) that it could have spawned.
Some adjustment to pirates may happen. The base number might be toned down slightly and the difficulty level adjustment may be made to increase a bit slower. There are already two options that increase pirate activity (the usual aggressive option that doubles the number and the new "pirate hoards" option that increases it by a much larger multiple resulting in requiring a completely different style of play), so I am thinking that in addition to the "no pirates" option that is already there we could probably use a "reduced pirates" option that cuts the number in half (a bit like the opposite of the existing aggressive option).
Spawn busting is probably not very cost effective due to the large amount of territory you have to cover on a spiral galaxy map. You can use sensor stations around the edges of the map and along the spiral arm nebulas, but their 0 strength means any that they die easily and are therefore not effective around the central area of a SG map - starabases work well but are expensive (I often build a couple to block access from some directions). Also, cruisers make excellent pirate hunters due to their higher strength (a regular cruiser is slightly stronger than a delta destroyer) but are slower (doesn't matter much for protecting routes but harder to actively hunt down pirates not on or next to one). Battlecruisers (the Brotherhood UU) are excellent for this. An, of course, you can always load a missile or two onto them for a bigger advantage. Squadrons to attack incoming pirates, especially battleships, are a good thing.
I settled for just protecting my borders with destroyers and destroying pirates as they come. My homeworld produces units with Trained Officers + 5 Parts upgrades pretty quickly, so I'm not having many problems on destroying the pirates except if I fail to notice one of their ships. Of course, once that you can easily deal with the pirates they stop being a danger and become just an annoyance that requires attention every turn.
Maybe sensor stations could be stealthy too. That way it would be possible to have some kind of passive protection against pirates.
Edit: I finally gave up. Pirates became too tedious when they started coming with a lot of battleships. Next time I'll try a custom game with "No barbarians" on. In this mod, pirates feel like vanilla "Raging barbarians". IMO the number of pirates should be toned down for standard (play now) games.
Maybe sensor stations could be stealthy too. That way it would be possible to have some kind of passive protection against pirates.
Edit: I finally gave up. Pirates became too tedious when they started coming with a lot of battleships. Next time I'll try a custom game with "No barbarians" on. In this mod, pirates feel like vanilla "Raging barbarians". IMO the number of pirates should be toned down for standard (play now) games.
Some suggestions for Terhken:
Squadrons are very useful for knocking down pirate ships, then finishing with a destroyer or cruiser for the Exp.
Push your culture out. The further your cultural border extends, the more time you have to react, and the less space pirates have to spawn.
Put ships on 'Sentry' around your territory. It'll save you the trouble of having to scan everything for stray pirates. IIRC ships that stay in one spot also gain increased LoS.
Did I mention that squadrons of fighter and bombers are very useful? Especially for those pirate battleships?
Oh, and did I mentions that squadrons for fighters and bombers are very useful? Especially when some AI shows up at your doorstep with a Stack of Doom?
Yeah, and about those squadrons? They can move from one side of your territory to the other in just one turn, allowing you to concentrate force where needed.
Squadrons are very useful for knocking down pirate ships, then finishing with a destroyer or cruiser for the Exp.
Push your culture out. The further your cultural border extends, the more time you have to react, and the less space pirates have to spawn.
Put ships on 'Sentry' around your territory. It'll save you the trouble of having to scan everything for stray pirates. IIRC ships that stay in one spot also gain increased LoS.
Did I mention that squadrons of fighter and bombers are very useful? Especially for those pirate battleships?
Oh, and did I mentions that squadrons for fighters and bombers are very useful? Especially when some AI shows up at your doorstep with a Stack of Doom?
Yeah, and about those squadrons? They can move from one side of your territory to the other in just one turn, allowing you to concentrate force where needed.
Thank you for the advice, I'll try that whenever I play with pirates again. Sadly, that does not eliminate the problem. My issue is not that I can't beat the pirates. My problem is that dealing with 1-2 pirate ships every turn gets boring pretty quickly. Pirates should be a random menace, not a permanent nuisance.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
So this is a known issue about Pirates.
Can someone tell me where the Spawn info is so that Pirates can be reduced. Hopefully it's not Python but Xml.
JosEPh
Can someone tell me where the Spawn info is so that Pirates can be reduced. Hopefully it's not Python but Xml.
JosEPh
God-Emperor
Deity
If you want to reduce the pirate numbers, you can adjust it in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml. Each difficulty has it's own setting. The specific value that controls it is iUnownedTilesPerBarbarianUnit for each difficulty level. The number of pirates is inversely proportional to this value, so if you double the value you will get half as many pirates spawned.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Thank you.
The spawn rate reminded me of C2C's early rates for their Neanderthal units. By the time you got out of the 1st era every fog covered tile had anywhere from 1 - 4+ units sitting on it.
And if the AI's logic towards the player isn't adjusted they target the Player more than the non player AI. Having to have to destroy literally hundreds of Barb/Pirate/neanderthal units to found a new city does lose it's appeal after a while.
Again Thank you for the info G-E.
JosEPh
The spawn rate reminded me of C2C's early rates for their Neanderthal units. By the time you got out of the 1st era every fog covered tile had anywhere from 1 - 4+ units sitting on it.
And if the AI's logic towards the player isn't adjusted they target the Player more than the non player AI. Having to have to destroy literally hundreds of Barb/Pirate/neanderthal units to found a new city does lose it's appeal after a while.
Again Thank you for the info G-E.
JosEPh
Hello, I'm having some serious trouble with launching the mod.
First of all, I have a "Civilization IV Complete" pack bought recently, which includes "Warlords" and "Beyond the Sword". It also includes some mods, the original "Final Frontier" being one of them.
I played it for some time, but due to sobe bugs I decided to switch to FF+ version 1.70.
And the "fun" began.
I first downloaded the "mirror 1" version of FF+ (well hey, I have the original FF in my Beyond the Sword\mods folder) and attempted to install it.
The autoexecutable application suggested installation to "C:\Mods\Final Frontier Plus". This is of course incorrect, so I changed it according to the true location of my Civ4 pack: C:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Final Frontier Plus
And when I finally clicked "Install" the app didn't even begin saying that it can't locate the source files of the original FF and the installation just terminated. It looked like the app wanted to find the mods\Final Frontier directly under C: just as it suggested for the installation of FF+ but why? No idea. Something with the register or sth?
OK, having failed at that I completely removed the original FF from the mods folder, downloaded the "mirror 2" version of FF+
Once again the app suggested installation to "C:\mods\Final Frontier Plus", once again I changed it. Fortunately this time after clicking "install" everything went OK, the mod dropped into place, but I'm still unable to run it.
When I launch "Beyond the Sword" and load the mod via "Advanced" menu "BtS" of course exits, for a while there is the standard Civ4 multi-language loading screen, and then comes the "Program Sid Meier's Civilization 4: BtS stopped working" appcrash.
The details are (with the left-side tags translated a bit dully by me):
problem name: APPCRASH
application name: Civ4BeyondSword.exe
version: 3.0.0.1
time signature: 46f40a72
Name of module with error: CvGameCoreDLL.dll
Version of module with error: 1.6.2.0
time signature of module with error: 4df8a9dc
.......
etc, the other are probably not necessary.
The same thing happens when I try to launch FF+ via the desktop shortcut. Oh, and first of all the desktop shortcut was also created wrongly by the installer. There was no icon, the 'Target' was simply Civ4BeyondSword.exe mod=\Final Frontier Plus and the 'Begin in' was simply C:
I changed it to "C:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe" mod=\Final Frontier Plus [the two "" including] and "C:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword" respectively.
Well, that change turned the shortcut from being unusable to giving the same error as with the other attempt of loading the mod.
Attempting to install the 1.73 patch is also buggy - it goes well, but when I leave the "do not uncheck" box checked and click "finish" it also terminates saying that it can't locate some BAT file (which indeed is in the mods\FF+ folder)
This is the point I'm at now and I have no further ideas. It feels as if the game is trying to locate the mod files somewhe where it isn't. Does maybe the fact that I'm running a Civ4 Complete version instead of sepparately installed "Warlords" and "BtS" have something to do with it?
My OS is Vista 32, but I had no other issues with the game.
Looking forward to Your help
First of all, I have a "Civilization IV Complete" pack bought recently, which includes "Warlords" and "Beyond the Sword". It also includes some mods, the original "Final Frontier" being one of them.
I played it for some time, but due to sobe bugs I decided to switch to FF+ version 1.70.
And the "fun" began.
I first downloaded the "mirror 1" version of FF+ (well hey, I have the original FF in my Beyond the Sword\mods folder) and attempted to install it.
The autoexecutable application suggested installation to "C:\Mods\Final Frontier Plus". This is of course incorrect, so I changed it according to the true location of my Civ4 pack: C:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Mods\Final Frontier Plus
And when I finally clicked "Install" the app didn't even begin saying that it can't locate the source files of the original FF and the installation just terminated. It looked like the app wanted to find the mods\Final Frontier directly under C: just as it suggested for the installation of FF+ but why? No idea. Something with the register or sth?
OK, having failed at that I completely removed the original FF from the mods folder, downloaded the "mirror 2" version of FF+
Once again the app suggested installation to "C:\mods\Final Frontier Plus", once again I changed it. Fortunately this time after clicking "install" everything went OK, the mod dropped into place, but I'm still unable to run it.
When I launch "Beyond the Sword" and load the mod via "Advanced" menu "BtS" of course exits, for a while there is the standard Civ4 multi-language loading screen, and then comes the "Program Sid Meier's Civilization 4: BtS stopped working" appcrash.
The details are (with the left-side tags translated a bit dully by me):
problem name: APPCRASH
application name: Civ4BeyondSword.exe
version: 3.0.0.1
time signature: 46f40a72
Name of module with error: CvGameCoreDLL.dll
Version of module with error: 1.6.2.0
time signature of module with error: 4df8a9dc
.......
etc, the other are probably not necessary.
The same thing happens when I try to launch FF+ via the desktop shortcut. Oh, and first of all the desktop shortcut was also created wrongly by the installer. There was no icon, the 'Target' was simply Civ4BeyondSword.exe mod=\Final Frontier Plus and the 'Begin in' was simply C:
I changed it to "C:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword\Civ4BeyondSword.exe" mod=\Final Frontier Plus [the two "" including] and "C:\Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Beyond the Sword" respectively.
Well, that change turned the shortcut from being unusable to giving the same error as with the other attempt of loading the mod.
Attempting to install the 1.73 patch is also buggy - it goes well, but when I leave the "do not uncheck" box checked and click "finish" it also terminates saying that it can't locate some BAT file (which indeed is in the mods\FF+ folder)
This is the point I'm at now and I have no further ideas. It feels as if the game is trying to locate the mod files somewhe where it isn't. Does maybe the fact that I'm running a Civ4 Complete version instead of sepparately installed "Warlords" and "BtS" have something to do with it?
My OS is Vista 32, but I had no other issues with the game.
Looking forward to Your help
God-Emperor
Deity
It looks like you are not patched to the current version of BtS (3.19, which should show 3.1.9.0 rather than the 3.0.0.1 in your crash message) which would explain why it does not run. Do not patch with the in-game update function as it tends to either hang forever or fail and then lie about it. Download the patch from here or the official site and apply it manually.
The Complete version has some Registry irregularities compared to the regular version(s). These may be fixed by patching to the last version of BtS. Or, at least, the installer may know how to find it after the update.
The Complete version has some Registry irregularities compared to the regular version(s). These may be fixed by patching to the last version of BtS. Or, at least, the installer may know how to find it after the update.
That did work indeed
I just assumed that since it's a "complete" release I don't have to bother searching for any patches and updates for "BtS" because it's "probably" patched up to the final version.
Thanks a lot for helping out and for a great mod
I just assumed that since it's a "complete" release I don't have to bother searching for any patches and updates for "BtS" because it's "probably" patched up to the final version.
Thanks a lot for helping out and for a great mod
God-Emperor
Deity
Currently the passive effects are the only espionage effects. None of the other missions have been removed for the XML (the CIV4EspionageMissionInfo.xml file is not even in the mod so it uses the one from BtS), but there is no unit that is set up to be able to do them.
OK, got that.
One more thing - what's up with the massive waves of space pirates? All kinds of ships and all together it seems like a force bigger than all the civs combined. Is there an end to them? :-]
My systems are holding on, but it just feels a bit 'unballanced' having to spend 2/3 of each turn's time to fight them off and devoting most of my forces to it.
One more thing - what's up with the massive waves of space pirates? All kinds of ships and all together it seems like a force bigger than all the civs combined. Is there an end to them? :-]
My systems are holding on, but it just feels a bit 'unballanced' having to spend 2/3 of each turn's time to fight them off and devoting most of my forces to it.
God-Emperor
Deity
They never entirely end. If you expand your borders (by influence related pops, settling new systems, and making starbases) it will reduce their numbers a bit as the maximum number of pirates on the map at any time is proportional to the number of unowned plots on the map (although the ratio increases each time the game's overall era advances - these are the same times when their mix of ship types is modernized, which is why you get the sudden wave of delta destroyers when they can first build them: the target number of pirates just went up and they can now spawn the better ships too).
The number of pirates also increases with difficulty level quite a bit. It's something like a bit over 20% per difficulty level, at least for the first couple past Noble. On a standard sized map the maximum is something around 36 in the first era before border growth starts to reduce the number, but on Monarch the max is more like 54. Each turn a random number between 1/4 and 1/8 the number below the current target is picked, that number +1 will try to spawn, although it might fail to find places to put them all once the map get crowded. The number of pirates is doubled if you are using the raging barbarians option (I'd suggest not using that).
The degree by which the pirates numbers increase with difficulty may be reduced a bit in the next version.
The number of pirates also increases with difficulty level quite a bit. It's something like a bit over 20% per difficulty level, at least for the first couple past Noble. On a standard sized map the maximum is something around 36 in the first era before border growth starts to reduce the number, but on Monarch the max is more like 54. Each turn a random number between 1/4 and 1/8 the number below the current target is picked, that number +1 will try to spawn, although it might fail to find places to put them all once the map get crowded. The number of pirates is doubled if you are using the raging barbarians option (I'd suggest not using that).
The degree by which the pirates numbers increase with difficulty may be reduced a bit in the next version.
Yes, I noticed they are getting stronger after an era change. I'm playing on some mid-level difficulty and I'm managing to hold them off more and more easily as I develop. But now I've noticed that the AI factions are sometimes also having big trouble when dealing with pirates and are taking some heavy pounding.
Right now it's the middle of the game or something like that and every AI Civ already lost a few systems to the pirates, sometimes including the better ones. The AI's lack of ability in dealing with pirates also affects me, for example when pirates appear near my systems I rush the bombers or some nearby capital ships to deal with them before they destroy any warp-lanes (that's the first thing they do usualy). Well the AI doesn't do that, their systems are almost always disconnected from the routes and it's really hard to set up any foreign trade network at all.
I think that the massive pirate raids are also affecting the AI's capability to wage war. So far there wasn't a single conflict between me and the other factions, or between AI factions themselves, even although realtions are always tense (except one or two factions - "Annoyed" right from the start), borders are getting pretty tight and free resources are becoming scarce. Overall it seems like the AI is having an even worse time with the pirates and can't do anything except building defenses against them and settling new systems that will get raided anyway.
Right now it's the middle of the game or something like that and every AI Civ already lost a few systems to the pirates, sometimes including the better ones. The AI's lack of ability in dealing with pirates also affects me, for example when pirates appear near my systems I rush the bombers or some nearby capital ships to deal with them before they destroy any warp-lanes (that's the first thing they do usualy). Well the AI doesn't do that, their systems are almost always disconnected from the routes and it's really hard to set up any foreign trade network at all.
I think that the massive pirate raids are also affecting the AI's capability to wage war. So far there wasn't a single conflict between me and the other factions, or between AI factions themselves, even although realtions are always tense (except one or two factions - "Annoyed" right from the start), borders are getting pretty tight and free resources are becoming scarce. Overall it seems like the AI is having an even worse time with the pirates and can't do anything except building defenses against them and settling new systems that will get raided anyway.
I'll sure be looking forward to that
