Final Version - "Corporations" abandoned?

[Fafnir13]

CotD could be implemented as a national wonder buildable by the Kuriotate and Sheaim. It's function would be similar to the Temple of Temporance with a extra boost in the city where the cult is built. The actual bonus could be anything. Perhaps straight up happiness or more esoteric like war weariness. Whatever that bonus, increasing it when a dragon is finally built by the Civ would ensure the Cult remains useful in the late game as well.

A simpler solution would be to replace Sheaim and Kuriotate pagan temples with CotD ones, once again adding a bonus when a dragon is finally built.

Either of these would hopefully satisfy those wanting the lore and flavor without hampering gameplay.

 

[LDiCesare]

A simpler solution would be to replace Sheaim and Kuriotate pagan temples with CotD ones, once again adding a bonus when a dragon is finally built.

Looks like a good idea. I've always found pagan temples very bland. They do very little (the culture bonus is laughable as you usually have 0 culture there anyway, so it's just a use-incense building). If pagan temples were actually useful it would be great, and it's an easy place to put flavor in (f.e. Hippus worship Tali so their temple gives some bonus like +1 happiness per air mana).

 

[someone67]

Looks like a good idea. I've always found pagan temples very bland. They do very little (the culture bonus is laughable as you usually have 0 culture there anyway, so it's just a use-incense building). If pagan temples were actually useful it would be great, and it's an easy place to put flavor in (f.e. Hippus worship Tali so their temple gives some bonus like +1 happiness per air mana).

They are useful, you can't get prophets earlier. And the culture bonus is not laughable at all. But I agree that more civs should have unique pagan temples, at least the sheim pt shouldn't be the same as the elven pt.

 

[jwin]

You could remove some other, less functional, things to put CoD things in.

I'm thinking removing some of the constelations events and adding some CoD events. May get it started early enough to have an effect, with significant numbers of units having CoD as their religion, and getting in cities before they are too large.

Events could either be unit or city specifc, could increase spread rates, etc.

I enjoyed the cult primarilly for the flavor, but largely because the functionality was so limited because of when it appeared in the game.

 

[the_fish]

Looks like a good idea. I've always found pagan temples very bland. They do very little (the culture bonus is laughable as you usually have 0 culture there anyway, so it's just a use-incense building). If pagan temples were actually useful it would be great, and it's an easy place to put flavor in (f.e. Hippus worship Tali so their temple gives some bonus like +1 happiness per air mana).

Booyah: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=229777

Not much came of it, I'm afraid, though I backed the idea. I guess it's just another level of complication on an already complex game, unless you view "learning to play" as "learning to play a particular civ" instead of the game as a whole.

 

[Yaotzin]

Orbi's mod (I think) has civ specific temples. I always thought Kael should steal the idea.

 

[LDiCesare]

And the culture bonus is not laughable at all.

I think it is. You need creative or a monument to get any culture to begin with. 10% will nto boost anything if you're at 0, and if you build the temple after the monument, it won't help you grow to your fat cross any faster because it will take too long to build to be useful.
If you're aiming for cultural victory or culture border wars, it's useful, but I think it is really remotely useful, but I may be missing something with this culture boost.

I forgot the priest specialist, as I usually don't use them much. My bad.

 

[Fafnir13]

That first priest specialist is my most important as I use them to bulb my first great person. Other than that, the slight culture and happiness aren't much to write home about. It is an early building though, so I never really expected much from them anyway.

As for everyone getting a unique pagan temple...I do like it, but it runs into the problem that when everyone is special no one is. Stealing a line from Dash there. I'm certainly in favor of more unique buildings, just not for every single Civ.

 

[Blackmantle]

I think sooner or later the "corporations" will make their way into FFH2 via modmods (one of the bigger mods already has some but I'm sure more will appear and one day we will have quite a selection. If some concepts get huge approval one of the most popular gameplay-enhancement mod-mods like FF might incorporate them.)

In hindsight i have to say that the way Guilds where the decision to cut them sure doesn't hurt (the 2 most interesting ones really work even better as wonders and the others are likely just as possible via events. Still Gaelan should appear more often. He is far to rare by any measure. Cut of Aneron's bounty hurts my playstyle a bit, so i miss it a little. But the new chosen sure is interesting enough to be a suitable replacement in terms of gameplay / fun).

While i can understand why Kael / the team decided not to go for these features i sure would be quite interested to test them combined with FFH2 (BtS would likely just be way to boring for me to test those features there...). Better not exposing newer players with even more features though. Given the existing sometimes overwhelming density of FFH2.
Better keep it to players who already have explored most of the mod and are deliberately looking for more...

In terms of espionage i wasn't so sure that the loss was a big deal during mid-shadow (that's the feature i actually hoped most for when the jump to Bts was done. But forgot about afterwards thanks to the big steps the mod did during Shadow and Marnok's highly appreciated contribution .).
But then the ideas for rumor & intrigue mod-mod came up and I'm very fond of the concept presented there because it seems to fit nicely with the flavor of FFH 2...

So I'm still hopeful and would suggest to not go all doom and gloom about the feature of guilds. You'll just need quite some patience though until someone goes for it in earnest, which might still be a few month off.

Once the mod has come so far that the updates will become less frequent I'm sure mod-modding will increase quite a bit.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Just put in a building/temple (for lore purposes atleast) for the Shiem and the Kurios. Could be called a Dragon Cult.

Maybe the "Dragon" temple could:

1: Give a promo to a percent of units built in the city the title Dragon worshiper - gives +5% fire immunity. Use dragon's roar to convert enemy units (like it used to).

2: Give +2 to Kurio and Shiem (and maybe the Elohim) culture.

3: The Dragon Cult can be captured (has the same chance of being destroy as other building) and if captured then it gives -2 culture to all other civs (except in #2) and still creates a small percentage of dragon cultist. Doing so would add to the potential cost of capturing one of their cities.


(Some of this would have to be Python- I may do it someday myself but I would rather it be official)

It may not meet a "function" but their are many things in the game that done have a true function. These things/effects etc meet one major aspect and that is lore. Many of us here have played FfH for a coupla years now and the removal of the Dragon cult is akin to removing half the civs because there are just too many (glares at Soren)..., It may be true but it would take a bit of Lore hit...

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Looks like a good idea. I've always found pagan temples very bland. They do very little (the culture bonus is laughable as you usually have 0 culture there anyway, so it's just a use-incense building). If pagan temples were actually useful it would be great, and it's an easy place to put flavor in (f.e. Hippus worship Tali so their temple gives some bonus like +1 happiness per air mana).

The biggest advantage of the Pagan temples is that it grants you the ability to make a priest in your cities. This isn't a small goodie either, its pretty big IMHO. Makes up for its passive traits...

 

[Grey Fox]

Yeah the pagan temple is far from useless. Even if you get a Sage as your first GP, using a priest at the same time can be a faster way to get it. Especially if you don't care whether it's a priest or a sage that pops out. But if you do, you can start using a priest + sage after the first sage is out. Or you start on just a priest when your sage is done if a priest is what you want, and then add another temple from whatever religion you got, to use 2 priests.

What I'm trying to say is, it's (not counting events) the earliest way to get a Great Priest. Which is a very useful great person. Which you can use to rush a religion tech (I think RoK has priority here?), or Priesthood. Build the Shrine if you found a religion, or just settle for the amazing +2 hammers and +5 Gold.

 

[Neomega]

pagan temple is essential if you go esus, because you need either a priest or merchant to build nox noctis.