Finland is in Scandinavia. Discuss.

[Gabryel Karolin]

Scandinavia can not be a strict geographical location, because then neither Denmark och Iceland could be included, and having a geographical group of ony Norway and Sweden seems a bit unneccesary.

Which one got the ugly women?Finland?Sweden?Norway?ect.ect.

There are no ugly people here, all beautiful people come from Scandinavia .

 

[spammikone]

Scandinavia can not be a strict geographical location, because then neither Denmark och Iceland could be included, and having a geographical group of ony Norway and Sweden seems a bit unneccesary.

What I meant Scandinavia is defined region. Meaning no political boundary changes can make a difference. Iceland isn't part of Scandinavia. This issue is not matter of opinion.

 

[Adebisi]

I'm going to be a bit impolite and not read the entire thread before I reply.

Finns and Swedes cooperate a lot and do it very well. Mergers between Finnish and Swedish companies are very common, as are take-overs. Merged companies such as StoraEnso (pulp and paper), Nordea (banking) and Ovako (steel) are very succesful. StoraEnso is one of the leaders in its field. If the two major power companies in both countries merge, Fortum and Vattenfall, it would become a player on the European energy market. Take-overs usually do not cause much tension either, a sign of trust between the two countries. Both countries also follow each others politics and are very similar in that regard. Disagreements are rare.

However, Swedes and Norweigans do not cooperate as well at all. Take-overs are very controversial and patriotism becomes serious issues.

Finnish is indeed not a Germanic language but neither is Sami, which is spoken all over Scandinavia. Besides, Swedish is spoken in Finland as well. Culturally the countries are as close as two countries can be in my opinion.

Considering that Finland and Sweden are so close, I think the term "Scandinavia" is pretty meaningless if it doesn't include Finland. I guess Finland isn't really in Scandinavia (people who claim so are usually considered incorrect), but the discussion is a bit pointless, since Finland so obviously is a part of the cultural context.

 

[Swedishguy]

Scandinavia is really Sweden and it's closest surroundings.

 

[Ingvina Freyr]

spammikone! You claim that Scandinavia is a defined region. Can you be so kind as to present the definition to us?

Had you bothered to read the thread you would've noticed that there is no clear definition. The peninsula where Sweden and Norway are situated has got its name from the term Scandinavia, not the other way around.

A common definition is Swe/Nor/Den. But what is it based on and what is the point of that definition?
The term should IMO for practical reasons equal the political and cultural area of northern europe that also includes Iceland, Finland and perhaps Estonia as well.

I fully agree with Adebisi's points in his post above.

 

[Harald500]

spammikone! You claim that Scandinavia is a defined region. Can you be so kind as to present the definition to us?

Had you bothered to read the thread you would've noticed that there is no clear definition. The peninsula where Sweden and Norway are situated has got its name from the term Scandinavia, not the other way around.

A common definition is Swe/Nor/Den. But what is it based on and what is the point of that definition?
The term should IMO for practical reasons equal the political and cultural area of northern europe that also includes Iceland, Finland and perhaps Estonia as well.

I fully agree with Adebisi's points in his post above.

Scandinavia is a historical and geographical region centered on the Scandinavian Peninsula in Northern Europe and includes the three kingdoms of Denmark, Norway and Sweden. The other Nordic countries, Finland, Iceland and the Faroe Islands, are also sometimes included because of their close historic and cultural relations to Norway, Sweden, and Denmark.

In linguistics and cultural studies, the definition of Scandinavia is expanded to include the areas where Old Norse was spoken and where the North Germanic languages are now dominant. As a linguistic and cultural concept, Scandinavia thus also includes Iceland and the Faroe Islands.

As a cultural and historical concept, Scandinavia can include Finland as well (of the larger region Fenno-Scandinavia), often with reference to the nation's long history as a part of Sweden. Although Finland is culturally closely related to the other Scandinavian countries, the Finns form a distinct linguistic and ethnic group, with a Finno-Ugric population that has incorporated features from both Eastern and Western Europe.

Since the Fennoman movement of the 1830s and political Scandinavism of the 1830s- 1850s, the inclusion of Finland and Iceland has divided opinions in the respective states. Although it depends on context which countries are considered Scandinavian, the term the Nordic countries is used unambiguously for Norway, Sweden, Denmark (including the Faroe Islands and Greenland), Finland (including Åland) and Iceland.

Scandinavia does not include Finland, Iceland or the Faroe Islands when speaking of offical defenition by the UN or the respective goverments.

 

[Adebisi]

As a cultural and historical concept, Scandinavia can include Finland as well (of the larger region Fenno-Scandinavia), often with reference to the nation's long history as a part of Sweden. Although Finland is culturally closely related to the other Scandinavian countries, the Finns form a distinct linguistic and ethnic group, with a Finno-Ugric population that has incorporated features from both Eastern and Western Europe.

In what way are Finns distinct from Swedes and Norweigans? What are the "features" incorporated from Eastern Europe? Finland is very clearly a Western country.

 

[Ingvina Freyr]

Scandinavia does not include Finland, Iceland or the Faroe Islands when speaking of offical defenition by the UN or the respective goverments.

If there is an official defenition by the UN or anyone else for that matter I would sure like to see it. I don't think there is, just different opinions. All other information included in your post are just more of exactly that.

I know that the perhaps most common definition of Scandinavia in our part of the world is Swe/Nor/Den, but to the rest of the world it's Fin/Swe/Nor/Den/Ice and, since I believe I'm the only one in this thread who has presented a reason for my definition, I would like to repeat that I think it would be practical if we too used the definition for the political, cultural, historical region that includes all five nations mentioned above and perhaps also Estonia.

 

[Harald500]

In what way are Finns distinct from Swedes and Norweigans? What are the "features" incorporated from Eastern Europe? Finland is very clearly a Western country.

In terms of genetics the Finns are closer to the Russians than the Scandinavians. Yes you do have significant influense from Sweden espesially, but as base genetics, Scandinavians (not Finns) are closer to Africa than to Russia. Take a look on The genographic project at National Geographic site - https://www3.nationalgeographic.com/genographic/atlas.html.

 

[Harald500]

If there is an official defenition by the UN or anyone else for that matter I would sure like to see it. I don't think there is, just different opinions. All other information included in your post are just more of exactly that.

I know that the perhaps most common definition of Scandinavia in our part of the world is Swe/Nor/Den, but to the rest of the world it's Fin/Swe/Nor/Den/Ice and, since I believe I'm the only one in this thread who has presented a reason for my definition, I would like to repeat that I think it would be practical if we too used the definition for the political, cultural, historical region that includes all five nations mentioned above and perhaps also Estonia.

In the organisation of the military contributions, the UN use this definition for sure, but I'l check out for some refrence on it. I just know (as posted before) after doing service in a Nordic batalion under Finnish command (NORBAT), with 3 finnish companies and one Scandinavian company, SCANCOY (1 Swedish, 1 Norwegian and 1 Danish platoon). This was under UNPROFOR and UNPREDEP command in FYROM 1995.

 

[Adebisi]

Lol, there is no way that you can interpret data from the genographic project in that way, even if that site actually told you anything about the genetic composition of Finns and Swedes (which it doesn't).

The original Finns and Russians have completly different origin. If you are going by migration, then Swedes and Russians are more closely related than Finns and Russians, as both the Germanic and Slavic tribes are originally Indo-European tribes from Central Europe. Finns on the other hand have Uralic origin. The way you are looking at the Gene map is totally incorrect.

Of course this is the wrong way to determine ethnic groups and genetically, both Finns, Swedes and Russians are very close. Finns have a diverse heritage of genes mostly from Europe, and a small part from Asia (the Uralic part).

 

[Adebisi]

Here is a much better example of how genes flow - Distribution of blond hair:

The yellow area is 80%+ blond hair. (source)

By your genetic arguments, you should exclude Denmark from Scandinavia as they are so far from the core of the blond hair area!

 

[aaglo]

I read somewhere, that the last real blond child will be born in around 2180 in Ostrobotnia (that's in Finland).

 

[Ingvina Freyr]

I have a brand new idea:

Let's map our populations genetically, measure shape of heads, noses, cheekbones and jaws. Let's also control and define haircolour and eyecolour and in the end, we can choose whom to include or exclude from our club. No, wait. That's not a new idea....

 

[Mureke]

I thought that Scandinavia is a part of Finland

Believe me, a lot of Finns have thought about that possibility. In fact, that's what I think to this day. Scandinavia is property of the Finns and Finns alone.

I see Scandinavia as a geographical area which is (currently ) not within the borders of Finland. Of course, this is merely a view I have adopted from people in my surroundings.

 

[Adebisi]

I know it's absurd to bring up genetics, but the claim that Swedes were more related to Africans than to Finns was so absurd that I had to counter it.

Anyway, Harald claims Finns are an ethnic group distinct from Scandinavia, his first argument was language and his second genetics (where he was wrong). What are the "features of Eastern Europe" in Finland? Did you just make it up?

 

[Atticus]

What are the "features of Eastern Europe" in Finland?

Heavy drinking and melancholy? Like Russians we are happy only when we're sad. More seriously I think history, close ties to Russia, small minority of Eastern Orthodoxes and Russians living in here makes Finland more eastern than Sweden is for example.

I find btw that blonde hair-map very dubitable. If in that 80% blondes region would really live that many blond haired people, it would surely be visible in the streets. In Vaasa for example there would be more blonde haired than Finnish speakers, and I just find it very hard to believe. The link from Wikipedia doesn't at quick glance tell how the research was done.

 

[Lotus49]

I'm an American - and it took me 5 seconds to determine that there is a Scandinavia (peninsula), and a larger/greater Fennoscandia, which includes Finland. So, what's the big deal?

Careful, or you'll wind up like the Brits (English/Scots/Welsh/Irish) - going 'round and 'round about absloutely nothing whatsoever, baffling all outsiders with your self-centered silliness. Sometimes you just need an outside, top-down view to cut through the nonsense.

I just had to step in - by the time I saw the map of the blonde hair. That was going too far.

 

[McManus]

SuurSuomi voittoon!!111

Seriously though, I've always considered myself a Finn and a Scandinavian. *shrug* I don't consider it a big deal if someone from far away tries to tell me that I'm not, I would just wonder where does he get the energy to care? Wouldn't it be wierd if I started spouting something about some of you not being in whatever group you consider yourself to belong? Does it matter? Who cares, really?

 

[Lotus49]

Finland is like Austria. Fennoscandia... and Großdeutschland, respectively.

Not that hard of a concept. Especially considering the reputed education levels of the subject realms.