First Impressions: Alexander

fdrpi

Prince
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Wow! I just discovered this mod. I'm a huge history buff and really appreciate this, but my one immediate criticism is Alexander's picture. Why?

Alexander was famous for his wavy blond hair. As in, it became an artistic motif after his death, especially by his generals' dynasties when depicting themselves to establish legitimacy. It's both personally and politically famous and a notable inaccuracy. :p

EDIT: Also the manual has a small inaccuracy: the Dardanelles Gun was forged in 1464, 11 years after the fall of Constantinople, but that model was still used in the siege.

EDIT 2: Lastly, a question: I normally don't like playing with random events, but does that mean that the rebellions against slavery and serfdom won't occur?
 
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Alexander was famous for his wavy blond hair. As in, it became an artistic motif after his death, especially by his generals' dynasties when depicting themselves to establish legitimacy. It's both personally and politically famous and a notable inaccuracy. :p

Yeah, he isn't very blond in that particular pic. Though to be fair, his most famous depiction in color is pretty close in terms of hair to what we have:
Spoiler Famous mosaic portrait :


Anyway, I've already long changed that to this portrait, which is decidedly blond:
Spoiler New portrait :


EDIT: Also the manual has a small inaccuracy: the Dardanelles Gun was forged in 1464, 11 years after the fall of Constantinople, but that model was still used in the siege.

Thanks, noted and fixed. Glad to see someone actually reads the manual!

EDIT 2: Lastly, a question: I normally don't like playing with random events, but does that mean that the rebellions against slavery and serfdom won't occur?

Not the ones that are regular BtS events, but our own revolts don't use the random event engine, so these will still occur.
 
Out of curiosity, where did you change the manual? I looked at the download page and it's still the old version.
 
Another minor error: Indonesia is the 4th, not the 3rd, most populous country, behind China, India, and the United States.
 
Sorry, some more questions/comments:

1. Mechanically, why are Schemer and Temperamental both in the game? They are very similar, but schemer seems like a much more negative trait to have.

2. For the next version, I'd highly recommend overhauling China's city names. If we're looking at overall history, it should be Chang'an, Luoyang, then Beijing. Nanjing is the 4th Great Ancient Capital, but I think it'd be better for South China? This is a problem since Civ IV came out.

3. For Japan, I don't think Meiji and Hirohito should be leaders. Japanese Emperors have always been figureheads without real power, like the British monarchy today. I would replace them with Okubo Toshimichi and Hideki Tojo, respectively.

4. Should the Austronesian civ be renamed Indonesia? I know Indonesia is super large and has been several unique civilizations for millennia, but the austronesians are such a massive and diverse group it feels off to classify all of them as 1 civilization. All the leaders are from modern-day Indonesia, and many incorporated groups could be civs in their own right, and many are (Polynesia in Dawn of Civilization comes to mind).

5. The civilopedia refers to Nelson Mandela in the present tense; I don't think it's been updated since his death in 2013.
 
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1. Mechanically, why are Schemer and Temperamental both in the game? They are very similar, but schemer seems like a much more negative trait to have.

Mostly because it helps assigning traits to people. So many leaders, not enough negative traits to go around. But I agree that Temperamental should probably be buffed.

2. For the next version, I'd highly recommend overhauling China's city names. If we're looking at overall history, it should be Chang'an, Luoyang, then Beijing. Nanjing is the 4th Great Ancient Capital, but I think it'd be better for South China? This is a problem since Civ IV came out.

Already way ahead of you here. For the next version, every leader will have an accurate city list reflecting the particular political setup at his/her age. China in particular benefited a lot from this, as their almost 3000 year timespan between leaders means that those lists almost don't overlap. BTW, the work is not over yet for all civs, so someone with your attention to detail could help a lot if you want to contribute to city list compilation.

3. For Japan, I don't think Meiji and Hirohito should be leaders. Japanese Emperors have always been figureheads without real power, like the British monarchy today. I would replace them with Okubo Toshimichi and Hideki Tojo, respectively.

Because they both identify well with particular eras in Japan that are well-reflected in Civ terms. While they were figureheads indeed (though that is somewhat debatable in case of Meiji), they were leaders of Japan. There are many cases in history where the actual driving force behind the monarchs were great statesmen defining their policies, but in most cases I included the nominal leader, the symbol behind whom the actual policies might have been carried out by other people. The only exception that comes to mind is Churchill, but his wartime powers made him a virtual dictator and he actually can be argued to be not only the de facto, but also the symbolic leader of wartime England.

4. Should the Austronesian civ be renamed Indonesia? I know Indonesia is super large and has been several unique civilizations for millennia, but the austronesians are such a massive and diverse group it feels off to classify all of them as 1 civilization. All the leaders are from modern-day Indonesia, and many incorporated groups could be civs in their own right, and many are (Polynesia in Dawn of Civilization comes to mind).

Were I inclined to add more civs, I'd definitely split off Malaysia and Philippines. But I am not, so this won't happen. Also, you are not 100% factually correct here, Parameswara isn't from Indonesia. And while modern unit lineup is mostly Indonesian-based, earlier units are a mixed bunch.

Philosophically speaking, we are rather lucky as a mod team that modern world led to creation of "cultural union countries" in most of the world, including entities such as India and Indonesia that never existed before to such extent, as it makes that so much easier to provide modern-day content for them. But they should not be equated (at least blindly) with historical civilizations occupying roughly the same territories.

5. The civilopedia refers to Nelson Mandela in the present tense; I don't think it's been updated since his death in 2013.

Goes to show you how old the mod is. He was still very much alive when we put him in. :)
 
3. I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. Although the parameter I think you're using is how remembered they are. After all, it's Bismarck who has the place in the sun, not Wilhelm I (see what I did there?). Let me put it this way: Meiji was 12 when he was "restored" to power, and the oligarchs were the ones making decisions on the new path for Japan. A starker contrast: Hirohito continued peacefully as Emperor, even attending state dinners at the White House without anyone raising an eyebrow, until his peaceful death in 1989. Tojo was executed for class A war crimes.

4. Yeah Austronesian just seems too broad for my tastes. At least it should be confined to the Indonesian archipelago. The most accurate thing to do would probably end up being having several "Indonesian" civs, like Java and Sumatra.

And another thing about Mali: the capital of the Mali Empire was Niani, and the proper adjective is "Malinke". However, based off your leaders, it's more representative of the West Africa/gold-salt kingdoms and their successors, though I don't think Ahmad al-Mansur fits here, as he is more Morocco than Songhai (just like you wouldn't have Victoria as an Indian/Hindi leader). You could replace him with modern independence leader Kwame Nkrumah, and though he was from the country he ruled (Ghana), his pan-African focus distracted him from domestic affairs, so Foreign could still fit.
 
And another thing about Mali: the capital of the Mali Empire was Niani, and the proper adjective is "Malinke". However, based off your leaders, it's more representative of the West Africa/gold-salt kingdoms and their successors, though I don't think Ahmad al-Mansur fits here, as he is more Morocco than Songhai (just like you wouldn't have Victoria as an Indian/Hindi leader). You could replace him with modern independence leader Kwame Nkrumah, and though he was from the country he ruled (Ghana), his pan-African focus distracted him from domestic affairs, so Foreign could still fit.

Ahead of you again. Ahmad al-Mansur already moved to the (now playable) Berbers, and of course when I reach the city lists for Malinese leaders (I'm currently proceeding alphabetically, and not yet on M), each of them will of course reflect their respective West African states.

BTW, since many issues you're pointing out were fixed before you saw them, you might want to check out SVN version instead of 3.3.


And good job pointing out Bismarck - though I am not sure, were he not in vanilla Civ 4 and were I to add him, whether I'd add him or Wilhelm. For instance, if I'd like another XIX century leader for Rome/Italy, I don't know yet if I'll add Cavour or Victor Emmanuel II.
 
Why were Babylon and Sumeria removed from the game? I can understand removing Babylon, but Sumeria as a whole is pretty important to world history. Were you not able to find compelling UUs and UBs?

Edit: Do not all leaders have specific diplo text? I just met Peljidiin Genden and there was no dialogue on the first contact screen.
 
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Why were Babylon and Sumeria removed from the game? I can understand removing Babylon, but Sumeria as a whole is pretty important to world history. Were you not able to find compelling UUs and UBs?

By the time BtS came out with its set of civs, we already were around for years, and couldn't just incorporate new BtS civs "as is". Since then we worked on adding some of them, but for most it will not happen. So the answer is they were never removed - they just were never added. Same as Netherlands and Portugal, and most other BtS stuff.

Edit: Do not all leaders have specific diplo text? I just met Peljidiin Genden and there was no dialogue on the first contact screen.

Well, again, currently they should have. In 3.3 probably not.
 
I downloaded the most recent version. Is there another one available? If so, where? Also the lack of a sticky thread in this subforum that has the download link(s) makes things more complicated for people just discovering the mod.
 
Well... That's because 3.3 is the current release version. But since we release quite rarely, many people prefer to use the current development build instead: http://www.realism-invictus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=825

There is no recommendation to use it because it is, by definition a work in progress, and it has some drawbacks, such as taking a very long while to load - so normally I don't actually tell anyone to use it (though I don't discourage them either). But in your case, based on the level of your observations, it just makes me sad that a lot of very on-point comments from you are outdated through no fault of yours.
 
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