First Look: Kongo

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

It seems rather strange to limit Kongos ability to use relics as the civ unique ability applies to relics.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It seems rather strange to limit Kongos ability to use relics as the civ unique ability applies to relics.

Well it includes relics... but it would make sense for an Archaeological museum to hold Relics in addition to Archeological sites

(after all they get the benefits of Relics, AND Artifacts, AND Sculpture... but not Religious Art)

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

but not Religious Art

Which is strange because the announcer mention just religious arts

 

[shaglio]

Can't Relics be traded to other civs? You can trade your Relics for more gold to make room for more Relics to trade for more gold to make room for more Relics . . .

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Can't Relics be traded to other civs? You can trade your Relics for more gold to make room for more Relics to trade for more gold to make room for more Relics . . .

Except gold can't buy room for more relics unless the Archaeological museum (or some other normal non-Holy Site building) can hold them.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Do we actually know if martyr ability create relics? It do create relics, I found the information in the video about the relic from goody hut.

 

[Wolle68]

Relics are a problem for Kongo because there is nowhere to Put them.
The relic slots we know about are
Palace
Mont st. Michael

and the Temple....which is in the Holy Site

Unless the Archeological museum can also House Relics (like the art one can house both Sculpture and Religious Art), Kongo really can't get them

It would make sense if the cathedral and other religion-specific buildings have room for one or more relics, though.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

It would make sense if the cathedral and other religion-specific buildings have room for one or more relics, though.

Except those go in Holy Sites that Kongo can't build.

Kongo will have to conquer other lands just to make room in their curio cabinet.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

It would make sense if the cathedral and other religion-specific buildings have room for one or more relics, though.

Actually its just the temple
(the cathedral has a slot for a work of Religious Art)

 

[ifasola]

Every civilization has some level of historical truth to civ but the Kongo.Saying Africans never had religion which is one of the most basic elements of all early civilization is a slap in the face very racist and the reason I wont by any civilization game. I been play civ since civ II and now I won’t be able to play it because they have taken African religion out of the game Ifa is the 5th largest religion in the world and VooDoo is African religion in the Americas. Are you telling me America & England who convert to Christianity can build holy sites but Black Africans cannot. This civ just show me how much people really don't know about Africa and don't care to know and don't care how disrespectful they are to Africans & African Americas alike. I hope they wake up and fix this problem it already bad enough we only get one truly Black African Civ out of 22, due to the fact they always make Egypt who is a known Black African Civ mix or Caucasian.
I would like to enjoy the new religious upgrades but is taking back by Kongo not being able to make holy sites. I’m asking would there be any other Black African Civs by launch and would we ever get an Egyptian leader that greater reflect the true demographic of the leaders and people of its history namely Black Africans? It seem as if Kongo can’t produce their own religion and if so is greatly handicap if they do so which to me is a great flaw in their Civ and without any other Black African Civs I would refrain from buying the game . I hope they correct this soon because I’ve been playing Civ for over 20 years and would hate to miss out on the next one due to a lack of depth and diversity towards Black African civilizations.
I had to come down because I was so excited to get Kongo as an official Civ but when they choose a weak leader for them I really became offended because I am an African American who practice indigenous African religion and when I talk to Africans who do so they really feel that they are misrepresented if they are shown at all. I hope people could understand how this is a sensitive subject.
I would like to see Benin Empire they stayed independent up until 1897 they practice indigenous African religion which is call Ifa which is shown to be 5th to 6th largest religion on the planet. The art of Benin has said to be the sum of best in the world during the 17th and 18th century. The walls of Benin were larger than those of the Great Wall of China which would make them a wonder. I think they would be a great choose because they influence is still felt in the Americas to this day, all throughout Caribbeans and Brazil with both culture and religion.

 

[Red Menace]

Every civilization has some level of historical truth to civ but the Kongo.Saying Africans never had religion which is one of the most basic elements of all early civilization is a slap in the face very racist and the reason I wont by any civilization game. I been play civ since civ II and now I won’t be able to play it because they have taken African religion out of the game Ifa is the 5th largest religion in the world and VooDoo is African religion in the Americas. Are you telling me America & England who convert to Christianity can build holy sites but Black Africans cannot. This civ just show me how much people really don't know about Africa and don't care to know and don't care how disrespectful they are to Africans & African Americas alike. I hope they wake up and fix this problem it already bad enough we only get one truly Black African Civ out of 22, due to the fact they always make Egypt who is a known Black African Civ mix or Caucasian.
I would like to enjoy the new religious upgrades but is taking back by Kongo not being able to make holy sites. I’m asking would there be any other Black African Civs by launch and would we ever get an Egyptian leader that greater reflect the true demographic of the leaders and people of its history namely Black Africans? It seem as if Kongo can’t produce their own religion and if so is greatly handicap if they do so which to me is a great flaw in their Civ and without any other Black African Civs I would refrain from buying the game . I hope they correct this soon because I’ve been playing Civ for over 20 years and would hate to miss out on the next one due to a lack of depth and diversity towards Black African civilizations.
I had to come down because I was so excited to get Kongo as an official Civ but when they choose a weak leader for them I really became offended because I am an African American who practice indigenous African religion and when I talk to Africans who do so they really feel that they are misrepresented if they are shown at all. I hope people could understand how this is a sensitive subject.
I would like to see Benin Empire they stayed independent up until 1897 they practice indigenous African religion which is call Ifa which is shown to be 5th to 6th largest religion on the planet. The art of Benin has said to be the sum of best in the world during the 17th and 18th century. The walls of Benin were larger than those of the Great Wall of China which would make them a wonder. I think they would be a great choose because they influence is still felt in the Americas to this day, all throughout Caribbeans and Brazil with both culture and religion.

do you realize that you called civ racist? that seems way to far. the reason Kongo cant build holy sites is PURLEY for gameplay reasons that they try to justify By Mvemba being a catholic and attempting to convert the country. I personally like the idea because it makes them very different.

about Mvemba being weak well we also have Catherine de Medici and she didnt get a lot of love either, I personally am not in favour of the choice, and probably wont play France just because they dont interest me. not so much because of the leader.

and Egypts had a Greek dynasty called the Ptolemaic Dynasty.
also North Africans arent the same as Sub-saharan Africans hence the differentiation. im not saying that their completley different but there is a difference.

 

[Uberfrog]

Every civilization has some level of historical truth to civ but the Kongo.Saying Africans never had religion which is one of the most basic elements of all early civilization is a slap in the face very racist and the reason I wont by any civilization game. I been play civ since civ II and now I won’t be able to play it because they have taken African religion out of the game Ifa is the 5th largest religion in the world and VooDoo is African religion in the Americas. Are you telling me America & England who convert to Christianity can build holy sites but Black Africans cannot. This civ just show me how much people really don't know about Africa and don't care to know and don't care how disrespectful they are to Africans & African Americas alike. I hope they wake up and fix this problem it already bad enough we only get one truly Black African Civ out of 22, due to the fact they always make Egypt who is a known Black African Civ mix or Caucasian.

I would like to enjoy the new religious upgrades but is taking back by Kongo not being able to make holy sites. I’m asking would there be any other Black African Civs by launch and would we ever get an Egyptian leader that greater reflect the true demographic of the leaders and people of its history namely Black Africans? It seem as if Kongo can’t produce their own religion and if so is greatly handicap if they do so which to me is a great flaw in their Civ and without any other Black African Civs I would refrain from buying the game . I hope they correct this soon because I’ve been playing Civ for over 20 years and would hate to miss out on the next one due to a lack of depth and diversity towards Black African civilizations.

I had to come down because I was so excited to get Kongo as an official Civ but when they choose a weak leader for them I really became offended because I am an African American who practice indigenous African religion and when I talk to Africans who do so they really feel that they are misrepresented if they are shown at all. I hope people could understand how this is a sensitive subject.

I would like to see Benin Empire they stayed independent up until 1897 they practice indigenous African religion which is call Ifa which is shown to be 5th to 6th largest religion on the planet. The art of Benin has said to be the sum of best in the world during the 17th and 18th century. The walls of Benin were larger than those of the Great Wall of China which would make them a wonder. I think they would be a great choose because they influence is still felt in the Americas to this day, all throughout Caribbeans and Brazil with both culture and religion.

Unfortunately we're not going to get any other African civs at launch, although I'd bet any money they will introduce some as DLC or in expansions. I think the Benin Empire would be a great choice, and would like to see them, the Malian, the Ethiopian and the Zulu empires in the game by the time they're done. Africa has always had poor representation in civ, but they seem to be taking note of that with the Kongo.

To defend Firaxis a little with their implementation of the Kongo, it's more accurate to say that it's Nzinga who can't build holy sites, rather than the Kongolese, as Religious Convert is his leader ability rather than the Civ's ability. That's probably a fairly academic point though, as they're unlikely to add another leader to the Kongo (it'd be nice to be proven wrong though). I'm sure we'll see a mod.

It is unfortunate that as the only black African civ they're featuring in the base game this time around, the lack of founding a religion gives this a certain racist impression. I think however that it's borne from an attempt to portray an aspect of Mvembe a Nzinga's life rather than a disparaging comment about the Kongo. The man who would become Afonso I isn't really the best choice to lead the Kongo in my opinion, but it remains to be seen how interesting and effective this ability turns out to be in game. I don't think the Kongo seem like a weak civ on the whole. It's just the lack of founding a religion that is odd and seemingly a bit of a setback.

I get why you feel the way you do, even though I think in this case they actually attempted to be historical, at least with Mvembe a Nzinga as the leader. It's disappointing they chose him to be the leader, however, and I really hope they add a good selection of varied African civs in the future.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

It's not Kongo that can't found a religion, it's Mvemba. It's his leader ability. If there were a different leader, Kongo would certainly be able to do it.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Do you know why Kongo can not found a religion?

Because they get one for free, yes that is true. You get the founder belief from the religion you follow, yes the founder belief so if somebody have worked hard to spread a religion (and sacrificed much to do so) you get all that work for free and free stuff tends to be amongst the best stuff you can get. Actually the harder other civs work at making their religion dominant the better Kongos ability get.

Holy districts are pretty much terrible for anything but for religious game. Yes you may think that faith is good for great people but here is the thing. A single great people point cost 15 faith even with the oracle a great people still cost 11.25 faith.

Given that all districts provide atleast one great people point per turn and all buildings provide great people point per turn you are always better of building a district for great people points instead of the holy district, faith can not compete at all with great people points, even a zero yield district is better then a holy district for great people purpose.

Gold is also better for great people then faith because gold is considered to be worth about 1/2 faith so 20 gold per point is better then 15 or even 11.25 faith per great people point and both the harbour and the commerce hub also provide lasting great people points compared to the holy district whose great people point which may be useless (we do not know yet). And with democracy gold is way better then faith at great people.

And as it is Kongo seems to produce twice as many great merchant points as well as twice as many great artist points.

In my opinion Kongo have no disadvantage, yes it may look like Kongo have a disadvantage but given that holy district usefulness is very much limited to only religious gameplay which Kongo gets for free the possible disadvantage is so little compared to the significant advantage of getting the religious game for free. It is also worth mention that Kongo is the only civ that is guaranteed to get the full or nearly full benefit of a religion (maybe other civs can capture a holy city but I do not know).

 

[Nick31]

So, I believe we're still unclear if their ability triggers when One city has a majority of religious followers or if the Majority of their cities has to be converted. If it's the majority, that is an awfully long time frame, particularly with wide play being possible.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Given that it is the religious civs that pay the price of founding the religions, the slower they are the worse they are doing which will likely just put you futher ahead and if they do not want to spread their religion you can maybe help them by conquering a few of their cities.

While other civs work towards religion Kongo can work towards science and culture, each holy district built could be another district and each great prophet could have been another great person.

 

[Atlas627]

Every civilization has some level of historical truth to civ but the Kongo.Saying Africans never had religion which is one of the most basic elements of all early civilization is a slap in the face very racist and the reason I wont by any civilization game. I been play civ since civ II and now I won’t be able to play it because they have taken African religion out of the game Ifa is the 5th largest religion in the world and VooDoo is African religion in the Americas. Are you telling me America & England who convert to Christianity can build holy sites but Black Africans cannot. This civ just show me how much people really don't know about Africa and don't care to know and don't care how disrespectful they are to Africans & African Americas alike. I hope they wake up and fix this problem it already bad enough we only get one truly Black African Civ out of 22, due to the fact they always make Egypt who is a known Black African Civ mix or Caucasian.
I would like to enjoy the new religious upgrades but is taking back by Kongo not being able to make holy sites. I’m asking would there be any other Black African Civs by launch and would we ever get an Egyptian leader that greater reflect the true demographic of the leaders and people of its history namely Black Africans? It seem as if Kongo can’t produce their own religion and if so is greatly handicap if they do so which to me is a great flaw in their Civ and without any other Black African Civs I would refrain from buying the game . I hope they correct this soon because I’ve been playing Civ for over 20 years and would hate to miss out on the next one due to a lack of depth and diversity towards Black African civilizations.
I had to come down because I was so excited to get Kongo as an official Civ but when they choose a weak leader for them I really became offended because I am an African American who practice indigenous African religion and when I talk to Africans who do so they really feel that they are misrepresented if they are shown at all. I hope people could understand how this is a sensitive subject.
I would like to see Benin Empire they stayed independent up until 1897 they practice indigenous African religion which is call Ifa which is shown to be 5th to 6th largest religion on the planet. The art of Benin has said to be the sum of best in the world during the 17th and 18th century. The walls of Benin were larger than those of the Great Wall of China which would make them a wonder. I think they would be a great choose because they influence is still felt in the Americas to this day, all throughout Caribbeans and Brazil with both culture and religion.

I'm going to assume that, despite the rant, you're on the forums because you're interested in having a discussion about this.

In Civ6, leaders have their own abilities so that different leaders can have different abilities for the same Civ. Mvemba is a good excuse for the interesting gameplay niche of "can't win the Religion game, but is very good at it. Gets a benefit for letting others get closer to winning the Religion game". Nobody is saying that Kongo had no religion before Christianity. If they add another leader to Kongo (which they might not), that leader will almost certainly be able to found their own religion.

And they are surely going to add another Civ of Black Africans. The Zulu have been in every single game (which is sad, as there are much better options). Ethiopia will very likely be in. Both will be able to found religions, I'm sure.

I'm also hoping for a West African Civ. Either the Mali again or another Civ we haven't seen before. I'd even take the Songhai again just because their Civ5 design was so uninspired.

Holy districts are pretty much terrible for anything but for religious game. Yes you may think that faith is good for great people but here is the thing. A single great people point cost 15 faith even with the oracle a great people still cost 11.25 faith.

Given that all districts provide atleast one great people point per turn and all buildings provide great people point per turn you are always better of building a district for great people points instead of the holy district, faith can not compete at all with great people points, even a zero yield district is better then a holy district for great people purpose.

1) All numbers are subject to change. If you think that the numbers are why Faith sucks for Great People, that will hopefully be fixed.

2) A Holy Site can actually be better than any other District in terms of Great People. Holy Sites produce Faith, which can be used on *any type of Great Person*. Since the Great People have changing abilities all the time, this could be very useful. Also, building multiple Districts of the same type (to have the same type of Great People points) means having only 1 type of yield: the one in which you will get a Great Person in, probably with diminishing returns. Furthermore, building a Holy Site does not prevent you from building another District of the type you want in a better spot later. You can a) have both or b) build the Holy Site first to avoid commitment so early.

3) Faith is meant to be primarily for the religion game, but also provide other benefits so that its worthwhile to invest in even if you end up doing just meh in the religion game. It isn't meant to make Faith on its own worthwhile without religion at all.

 

[ifasola]

do you realize that you called civ racist? that seems way to far. the reason Kongo cant build holy sites is PURLEY for gameplay reasons that they try to justify By Mvemba being a catholic and attempting to convert the country. I personally like the idea because it makes them very different.

about Mvemba being weak well we also have Catherine de Medici and she didnt get a lot of love either, I personally am not in favour of the choice, and probably wont play France just because they dont interest me. not so much because of the leader.

and Egypts had a Greek dynasty called the Ptolemaic Dynasty.
also North Africans arent the same as Sub-saharan Africans hence the differentiation. im not saying that their completley different but there is a difference.

I’m glad this forum has true Civ fans because for the most part you all have some good point or at lease feels what I coming from. When it come to the Kong and no religion stop telling me it’s the leader trait not the Civ , you all are missing the point idk if it’s on purpose or not but it’s not funny. It doesn’t matter if it’s the leader the first Black African leader they give us is not able to build his peoples own indigenous religion and I have a big problem with that one. Egypt throughout most of it 4000 year history has been Black African is represented by a fully Caucasian woman who in historically was mix not Pink. It would be no different if they would have put Obama for the leader of American Civ people would have a problem with it. He can’t start a war on a different continent. His special unit is the drone and he get the government welfare building which give extra food and special people points lol. How many people would want to hear wait until they make a different leader down the line to play as America. No one wants to hear an excuse for the problem we who care want the problem address and fixed. If there was any other West Central African countries in the game at launch I would deal with the weak Civ of Kongo but because it is not and no rumors of anything different that’s why I’m not buying Civ 6 if they fix it in the future I would review the change and make judgment then. I was really look forward to 3 things from Civ which is changing how civs act towards war, change the happiness so you can expand and fight religious wars and now I feel like they pull the rug from other me with the only Black African Civ can’t found a religion. I always custom make my religion for my civ anyway.

Unfortunately we're not going to get any other African civs at launch, although I'd bet any money they will introduce some as DLC or in expansions. I think the Benin Empire would be a great choice, and would like to see them, the Malian, the Ethiopian and the Zulu empires in the game by the time they're done. Africa has always had poor representation in civ, but they seem to be taking note of that with the Kongo.

To defend Firaxis a little with their implementation of the Kongo, it's more accurate to say that it's Nzinga who can't build holy sites, rather than the Kongolese, as Religious Convert is his leader ability rather than the Civ's ability. That's probably a fairly academic point though, as they're unlikely to add another leader to the Kongo (it'd be nice to be proven wrong though). I'm sure we'll see a mod.

It is unfortunate that as the only black African civ they're featuring in the base game this time around, the lack of founding a religion gives this a certain racist impression. I think however that it's borne from an attempt to portray an aspect of Mvembe a Nzinga's life rather than a disparaging comment about the Kongo. The man who would become Afonso I isn't really the best choice to lead the Kongo in my opinion, but it remains to be seen how interesting and effective this ability turns out to be in game. I don't think the Kongo seem like a weak civ on the whole. It's just the lack of founding a religion that is odd and seemingly a bit of a setback.

I get why you feel the way you do, even though I think in this case they actually attempted to be historical, at least with Mvembe a Nzinga as the leader. It's disappointing they chose him to be the leader, however, and I really hope they add a good selection of varied African civs in the future.

I'm glad you feel me because I was about to buy a new computer just to play my favorite game of all time Civ I been play since the 90s and I am a history buff so it was like a knife in the heart when they stole religion from the Kongo Civ. i just going to hold out and not get it until I see African being represented better I just can't buy it in good faith.

Given that it is the religious civs that pay the price of founding the religions, the slower they are the worse they are doing which will likely just put you futher ahead and if they do not want to spread their religion you can maybe help them by conquering a few of their cities.

While other civs work towards religion Kongo can work towards science and culture, each holy district built could be another district and each great prophet could have been another great person.

They can do that with other groups don't take the one Black African civ and steal religion from them. Why not America who are all converts not have holy site why everyone else get to fully play the religion game which has been buff up but the one Black civ and being an African American who follow Ifa (indigenous faith of Africa) it really hurt to see that they took religion off the table for Kongo..........ijs

Moderator Action: Please use multi-quote when replying to multiple posts; three posts merged

 

[Atlas627]

I’m glad this forum has true Civ fans because for the most part you all have some good point or at lease feels what I coming from. When it come to the Kong and no religion stop telling me it’s the leader trait not the Civ , you all are missing the point idk if it’s on purpose or not but it’s not funny. It doesn’t matter if it’s the leader the first Black African leader they give us is not able to build his peoples own indigenous religion and I have a big problem with that one. Egypt throughout most of it 4000 year history has been Black African is represented by a fully Caucasian woman who in historically was mix not Pink. It would be no different if they would have put Obama for the leader of American Civ people would have a problem with it. He can’t start a war on a different continent. His special unit is the drone and he get the government welfare building which give extra food and special people points lol. How many people would want to hear wait until they make a different leader down the line to play as America. No one wants to hear an excuse for the problem we who care want the problem address and fixed. If there was any other West Central African countries in the game at launch I would deal with the weak Civ of Kongo but because it is not and no rumors of anything different that’s why I’m not buying Civ 6 if they fix it in the future I would review the change and make judgment then. I was really look forward to 3 things from Civ which is changing how civs act towards war, change the happiness so you can expand and fight religious wars and now I feel like they pull the rug from other me with the only Black African Civ can’t found a religion. I always custom make my religion for my civ anyway.

Assuming that Obama wasn't currently alive and in fact currently in office, which are both nos for leader selection by Firaxis already, no I would have no problem with Obama.

If you don't want to accept the reason for the choice, but only the outcome, then you can go ahead and do what you want. But because your entire argument is about *principle*, then the principle of why they made that choice should matter to you.

That is why I point out that its Mvemba's ability and not the Civ's.

If its the principle that "they're being racist", then no they aren't. They aren't being racist, because there is a reason to make this decision that obviously has nothing to do with race whatsoever. That's why the fact that its Mvemba's ability matters.

If its the principle of "the only Black African Civ can't found a religion" that bothers you, then its a good thing there very likely will be an option to mix and match leaders (not that there are any other Black African leaders to swap with). That sounds like a reason to be disappointed in what you wanted from Civ6, but not at all a reason to boycott the game. It might be a reason to not get the game because it isn't a game you want anymore. If you needed a Black African Civ who can found a religion to have fun, then I'm sorry you can't have fun in Civ6 right now.

But claiming they're being racist and trying to boycott the game on principle is way overboard.

They can do that with other groups don't take the one Black African civ and steal religion from them. Why not America who are all converts not have holy site why everyone else get to fully play the religion game which has been buff up but the one Black civ and being an African American who follow Ifa (indigenous faith of Africa) it really hurt to see that they took religion off the table for Kongo..........ijs

I get your point that they could have had the foresight to not give this ability to the only African Civ, either by finding somewhere else to put it or by making another African Civ once they realized they wanted to use this.

However, none of the other Civs in the game make sense for it. You know which Civ isn't a nation of converts? All of them. That isn't a Civilization trait. No culture converts constantly. It only makes sense as a Leader trait, because THAT leader converted and thus forces it on his/her population.

But it also would make no sense for America. America isn't a nation of converts, not only because everyone religious started out like that rather than being converted, but because America is an a-religious Civilization. Putting any religious ability on America makes no sense at all.

As for having a 2nd African Civ in the base game, yeah I wish they did too. I'm sorry you feel personally slighted by this, but it doesn't take away from 99% of the player base's experience. Kongo has an interesting gameplay niche, and that's all most people will care about. And should, in my opinion.

 

[ifasola]

Assuming that Obama wasn't currently alive and in fact currently in office, which are both nos for leader selection by Firaxis already, no I would have no problem with Obama.

If you don't want to accept the reason for the choice, but only the outcome, then you can go ahead and do what you want. But because your entire argument is about *principle*, then the principle of why they made that choice should matter to you.

That is why I point out that its Mvemba's ability and not the Civ's.

If its the principle that "they're being racist", then no they aren't. They aren't being racist, because there is a reason to make this decision that obviously has nothing to do with race whatsoever. That's why the fact that its Mvemba's ability matters.

If its the principle of "the only Black African Civ can't found a religion" that bothers you, then its a good thing there very likely will be an option to mix and match leaders (not that there are any other Black African leaders to swap with). That sounds like a reason to be disappointed in what you wanted from Civ6, but not at all a reason to boycott the game. It might be a reason to not get the game because it isn't a game you want anymore. If you needed a Black African Civ who can found a religion to have fun, then I'm sorry you can't have fun in Civ6 right now.

But claiming they're being racist and trying to boycott the game on principle is way overboard.

How boycotting a game being over board?? As a veteran of American I fought to make sure your right as well as mind are protected and boycotting something that you disagree with strongly. I a fan for over 20 years so yes I am hurt by it so I will wait it out until they fix this problem with African Civs. The idea of being racist doesn't mean you must hate or talk down on a person or people. It mean you can easily omit their needs or wants because they are not the main group. First Civ have only one Black African civ out of 22 and how they show Egypt is not fair to its 4000 year history . Cleopatra didn't build any great religious structure yet she is the Pink face that represent their long history. Let be real just like Star War if they would have put a mix face (Obama) as the leader for the American Civ people would be going crazy.That's why I made that statement but because most people in America deal with African with little to no value it's culture or religion is over looked or you tell people like me we over reacting.

I get your point that they could have had the foresight to not give this ability to the only African Civ, either by finding somewhere else to put it or by making another African Civ once they realized they wanted to use this.

However, none of the other Civs in the game make sense for it. You know which Civ isn't a nation of converts? All of them. That isn't a Civilization trait. No culture converts constantly. It only makes sense as a Leader trait, because THAT leader converted and thus forces it on his/her population.

But it also would make no sense for America. America isn't a nation of converts, not only because everyone religious started out like that rather than being converted, but because America is an a-religious Civilization. Putting any religious ability on America makes no sense at all.

As for having a 2nd African Civ in the base game, yeah I wish they did too. I'm sorry you feel personally slighted by this, but it doesn't take away from 99% of the player base's experience. Kongo has an interesting gameplay niche, and that's all most people will care about. And should, in my opinion.

That what I am saying for the most part and that's why i have to wait it out and hopefully they would fix this so I can enjoy my favorite game again. I would like to see Benin Empire they stayed independent up until 1897 they practice indigenous African religion which is call Ifa which is shown to be 5th to 6th largest religion on the planet. The art of Benin has said to be the sum of best in the world during the 17th and 18th century. The walls of Benin were larger than those of the Great Wall of China which would make them a wonder. I think they would be a great choose because they influence is still felt in the Americas to this day, all throughout Caribbeans and Brazil with both culture and religion.