First Look: Kongo

[Veras]

Kongo seems to be an interesting civ to play. No holy sites and being a religious convert. Mvemba a Nzinga looks strange without European influenced clothing, but I understand why they would want to depict him like this. Hopefully, he is speaking Kikongo instead of Swahili.

This seems to be part of an effort to avoid any kind of whitewashing in Civ 6. Just look at how they made Gandhi way more brown skinned than in Civ V (which is more close to reality). Pedro II on the other hand, has been 'de-whitened' since civ V, when he was more dark skinned, and now on civ 6, with black hair and bear, even though he was a plain white, dark blonde and blue eyed guy.

 

[Brianstorm]

This seems to be part of an effort to avoid any kind of whitewashing in Civ 6. Just look at how they made Gandhi way more brown skinned than in Civ V (which is more close to reality). Pedro II on the other hand, has been 'de-whitened' since civ V, when he was more dark skinned, and now on civ 6, with black hair and bear, even though he was a plain white, dark blonde and blue eyed guy.

Well they have made Cleo look Greek finally when in past games they've made her look straight up black. I think a lot of these things are up to the artists themselves and aren't too coordinated.

 

[Stringer1313]

Some people said it before that they'll probably have the prophet substituted for a relic or something, much like Venice got great merchants instead of settlers when they picked certain policies

Maybe Great Prophets can also create relics? (More relics than apostles?)

 

[Sufyan]

Seeing how they never had their own religion and not only are strongly Catholic (which would be Roman by Civ standards) but had Christians, Muslims and Jews during their Al-Andalus period.

Two things I don't understand. One: Do you mean that the Catholic faith is represented by the Roman civilization in the game? That is weird, as the leaders chosen for the civ are all pre-Constantine. And two: Do you believe that Catholics aren't Christian?

 

[moysturfurmer]

I could see different Great Works of ______ giving yields respective to their contents/theme. +2 culture +2 faith for Hallelujah, +4 culture for Beethoven's 9th, +2 culture +2 production for Verdi's Anvil Chorus, that kind of thing.


I kind of doubt it, but I could see it.

Edit: wrong thread.

 

[Morningcalm]

A little trip in the Wayback Machine--there was extensive discussion of Kongo as a Civ in Civ V. The extra Great Merchant points and unique unit suffering no movement penalty through jungles seem to have been inspired by fan ideas.

See here: https://forums.2k.com/showthread.php?189256-Why-no-Kongo-Italy-Sioux-Tannu-Tuva-etc/page5

I'm glad the developers read those threads and engage with the ideas fans suggest. Polynesia was similarly inspired by fan ideas and was one of my favorite DLC civs from Civ V.

Also worth noting is the popular misconception that Queen Anna Nzinga was a ruler of Kongo likely began with fans seeing the Kongo mod having her (erroneously and historically) ruler of Kongo, when in fact she was a ruler of the Ndongo, a separate kingdom and sometimes ally of Kongo.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Two things I don't understand. One: Do you mean that the Catholic faith is represented by the Roman civilization in the game? That is weird, as the leaders chosen for the civ are all pre-Constantine. And two: Do you believe that Catholics aren't Christian?

Rome is Catholicism's holy city. Hence why its official name is "Roman Catholicism".

 

[Brianstorm]

Two things I don't understand. One: Do you mean that the Catholic faith is represented by the Roman civilization in the game? That is weird, as the leaders chosen for the civ are all pre-Constantine. And two: Do you believe that Catholics aren't Christian?

Of course Catholics are Christian, I'm Catholic myself. As far as Rome, I mean Rome would be the founder of Catholicism in a game of Civilization since the Vatican is in Rome itself. Jerusalem could be an option but it would have been conquered by Rome at that point IRL. I suppose you could argue Nicaea, but that's Roman as well.

Personally I think Constantine should be a leader with a religion focus as DLC or in an expansion, but I don't think Rome needs to be religion focused.

 

[Sufyan]

Rome is Catholicism's holy city. Hence why its official name is "Roman Catholicism".

Well, Vatican City is in the game as a city state.

@Brianstorm: Thanks for the answers, and sorry for my questions. Your wording confused me, but that is mostly due to my unbecoming pedantry.

 

[fmm]

Well, Vatican City is in the game as a city state.

Where has that been confirmed? It makes sense as a religious choice, of course...

 

[Sufyan]

Where has that been confirmed? It makes sense as a religious choice, of course...

It's not confirmed for 6, sorry for the lack of clarity. I was refering to 5, as my comment was in reference to a more general idea that Catholicism is allegedly tied to Rome (the civilization) "by Civ standards".

 

[Scaramanga]

The Vatican is the headquarters of the Catholic Church but the pope has always been the bishop of Rome.

 

[Thormodr]

The Church most definitely started in the city of Jerusalem. The term "Christians" was first used in Antioch. You can find that in the Book of Acts in the Bible. Off topic, though.

Anyway, I do look forward to bringing Christianity to Kongo in the game. It'll be fun to role play. It's cool that they have a positive agenda.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The Church most definitely started in the city of Jerusalem. The term "Christians" was first used in Antioch. You can find that in the Book of Acts in the Bible. Off topic, though.

Anyway, I do look forward to bringing Christianity to Kongo in the game. It'll be fun to role play. It's cool that they have a positive agenda.

However, 'Christianity'/'the Church' is not in the game.
Instead you have Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism...which are all branches of Christianity founded in cities besides Jerusalem.
(And the CS of Jerusalem is perfect for this...acting as a 2nd holy city)

 

[killmeplease]

A little trip in the Wayback Machine--there was extensive discussion of Kongo as a Civ in Civ V. The extra Great Merchant points and unique unit suffering no movement penalty through jungles seem to have been inspired by fan ideas.

jungle walking is an obvious (and pretty boring imho) idea, 2 tribal civs had something like this in civ5 - aztecs, iroquis
great merchant points isnt terribly creative too
i think the devs reached these ideas by themselves

 

[Halcyan2]

Depending on how Kongo's bonus to Great Merchants and Great Artists work (some people seem to think it is a +100% bonus rather than a flat +X per turn), I wonder if it will multiply Great Person Points generated from Wonders, especially the Oracle. Also, it would be interesting if it stacks with the Divine Spark pantheon belief.

A theater square normally provides 1 Great Artist point. Divine Spark means it will provide an additional +1. So the question is whether if Kongo + theater square + Divine Spark generates +3 or +4....

 

[Morningcalm]

jungle walking is an obvious (and pretty boring imho) idea, 2 tribal civs had something like this in civ5 - aztecs, iroquis
great merchant points isnt terribly creative too
i think the devs reached these ideas by themselves

That sounds too convenient given how we know the developers read the forums and themselves stated Kongo was one of the most requested civs. Associating Kongo with Great Merchant points is rather irregular IMO. I think most would associate Great Merchants with Venice, the United States or England rather than Kongo.

 

[Ebrim]

That sounds too convenient given how we know the developers read the forums and themselves stated Kongo was one of the most requested civs. Associating Kongo with Great Merchant points is rather irregular IMO. I think most would associate Great Merchants with Venice, the United States or England rather than Kongo.

I think you might be thinking about it not quite right. Mbeba was all about attracting foreign specialists to help develop Kongo more along European norms. Hence he gets a bonus to developing Great Merchants (as well as others). This is similar to Pedro who sought as well to attract specialists from abroad.

 

[Morningcalm]

I think you might be thinking about it not quite right. Mbeba was all about attracting foreign specialists to help develop Kongo more along European norms. Hence he gets a bonus to developing Great Merchants (as well as others). This is similar to Pedro who sought as well to attract specialists from abroad.

Yes, and that is irrelevant given how *when Kongo was first suggested on the forums* the Great Merchant bonus came without speaking of Afonso's history.

 

[bumpyglint]

Kongo is a really interesting civ, but isn't it a bit too good being next to them? I mean, you can have a free boost to your religion just spawning behind them! This could change the balance in the game, I hope this will not happens!