TheWilltoAct
I am observe
Well at least the Odeon is a decent cultural building. Think you'll run the 2 artists in Corinth?
First shot at deity - advice welcome
- Thread starter michmbk
- Start date
Ok - another time through the same 100 turns to try to improve - building wealth is better than research, that became clear. Did things mostly the same as last time, and the difference is pronounced:
That's a 60 beaker per turn difference from the last time. However, I'm still miles behind:
Everyone is pleased or better, which is good, but I have some catching up to do. The good news is that my tech rate is better than before, and I actually saw areas to improve for next time - faster workers, whipping more crisply, and building wealth.
The bad news is Mansa continues to tech like mad and culture destroy me - I'm trying to counter that, but his 5 religion wonderhog city is blowing me away culturewise. He's already built Kremlin, and he's headed toward culture for sure. I'm going to play it out to the bitter end from here as I've learned some things from the couple of restarts. After that, time to shadow another deity game - only way to learn.
That's a 60 beaker per turn difference from the last time. However, I'm still miles behind:
Everyone is pleased or better, which is good, but I have some catching up to do. The good news is that my tech rate is better than before, and I actually saw areas to improve for next time - faster workers, whipping more crisply, and building wealth.
The bad news is Mansa continues to tech like mad and culture destroy me - I'm trying to counter that, but his 5 religion wonderhog city is blowing me away culturewise. He's already built Kremlin, and he's headed toward culture for sure. I'm going to play it out to the bitter end from here as I've learned some things from the couple of restarts. After that, time to shadow another deity game - only way to learn.
Uhm, you're Pericles, 65
, less than the cost of a Maceman and basically one 2 pop whip, gives you 6 
/turn and 4 artist slots via a Theatre and an Odeon. Run the artists until your city reaches it's third border pop at 500 and the BFC should be fairly safe?Uhm, you're Pericles, 65
Um, no. That BFC was far from safe. By the late game, Mansa the culture whore completely swamped that city top to bottom in culture. He had 6 religions in nearby cities, and wonders everywhere. Laughable.
Totally agree. I'm really not great with the PHI trait, and you're absolutely right - I should have had that up and running far earlier.
Well, I wasn't going to go quietly - a laughable finish to a lowly first effort.
I tried to race to cavalry first to see if I could hit Mansa pre-infantry....nope. He hit assembly line right as I got my first 15 cavalry built. So, to survive until infantry/artillery/anti-tank, I did this:
And I had to laugh at this:
I'm miles behind everyone but Stalin in tech, and you fear I am becoming too advanced.
So as Mansa is heading toward culture/space/whatever other victory condition, and swarming my cities with culture, I decided if I'm going to lose, I wanted to at least raze one of his culture cities. So I rush buy a stack of 70 infantry/arty/anti-tank under US, and off we go:
Oops, my city protected with 1 unit wasn't going to hold:
Oh, Mansa, here's my stack of doom!
Hmmm. That's not 70 units anymore.
Deity 1 - michmbk 0. In a lot of ways this was a favorable start too, because I never had to worry about anyone DOWing me at all. But Mansa was way too strong to overcome.
After the fact, i gave myself a bunch of great spies so I could see Mansa's nearby city. Is it any wonder I couldn't hold my cultural border:
That's 4 tiles from my city - how does anyone compete with that kind of culture? He's even building culture at 42 hammers a turn - that's downright evil! He had 5 cities within 50 turns of legendary.
I tried to race to cavalry first to see if I could hit Mansa pre-infantry....nope. He hit assembly line right as I got my first 15 cavalry built. So, to survive until infantry/artillery/anti-tank, I did this:
And I had to laugh at this:
I'm miles behind everyone but Stalin in tech, and you fear I am becoming too advanced.
So as Mansa is heading toward culture/space/whatever other victory condition, and swarming my cities with culture, I decided if I'm going to lose, I wanted to at least raze one of his culture cities. So I rush buy a stack of 70 infantry/arty/anti-tank under US, and off we go:
Oops, my city protected with 1 unit wasn't going to hold:
Oh, Mansa, here's my stack of doom!
Hmmm. That's not 70 units anymore.
Deity 1 - michmbk 0. In a lot of ways this was a favorable start too, because I never had to worry about anyone DOWing me at all. But Mansa was way too strong to overcome.
After the fact, i gave myself a bunch of great spies so I could see Mansa's nearby city. Is it any wonder I couldn't hold my cultural border:
That's 4 tiles from my city - how does anyone compete with that kind of culture? He's even building culture at 42 hammers a turn - that's downright evil! He had 5 cities within 50 turns of legendary.
I bulb'd philosophy 100 BC. Traded Drama for math and alphabet after researching them down some and my second GS came quick after I got the GL up. And the Taoism holy city is the city I'm trying to use to culture flip Mansa's city. I've got +2 you voted for us since Mansa built the Apostolic Palace so I may even be able to go no religion so I can use the culture if I get construction next and put in some Odeons to replace the happyness from being in Mansa's religion. Not sure that its worth it though. I am about to finish the Parthenon - I wanted that for the gold, but no one built it. Guessing I should wait for the gold..
Hoping to trade philosophy so I can get CS about 200 AD.. So I'm likely going for code of laws and not construction next. Screenshot since I didn't expect to get Philo:
But Mansa just got music. I could also trade philo for music and try to beat him to sistine, wonder when his cultural victory will come... The GA is likely going to come and bomb my border which loses me the pigs and overall sucks... My aesthetics-iron working trade likely lead to him getting music at this point. Would it have been possible to bee line music and go for culture? Perhaps I'll go back and try.
Hoping to trade philosophy so I can get CS about 200 AD.. So I'm likely going for code of laws and not construction next. Screenshot since I didn't expect to get Philo:
Spoiler :
But Mansa just got music. I could also trade philo for music and try to beat him to sistine, wonder when his cultural victory will come... The GA is likely going to come and bomb my border which loses me the pigs and overall sucks... My aesthetics-iron working trade likely lead to him getting music at this point. Would it have been possible to bee line music and go for culture? Perhaps I'll go back and try.
Looks like you're off to a good start - definitely better than me as worst case, you'll get a good failgold conversion with the marble. I was so concerned early with blocking land and really didn't think I had any shot at the great library, but if you pull it off, something for me to learn from. Man, this level is brutal.
This last time through I got my philo bulb to 200 AD. Better, but not in your league. Mansa, of course, had already hit it in 250 BC - he was off to the races from the start. It does look like if you could get some of the wonders, you might be able to compete with him in culture, but in my game, he was nutty with culture - he had 5 religions in every single city, and had all the cathedral multipliers. I'm definitely seeing some things from your game to take away though - I probably should have headed up the aesthetics line faster as well - by the time I looked to tech it, mansa already had it.
I had no clue when the GL would come or when the AIs typically get it on deity but figured a go with that fish pig wheat city and the thought I'd still be able to seal off Mansa at the jungle.
Can you post some later saves? Like 1000 AD and when you got calvary? I've never actually fought with calvary since I always stop my games at immortal when I feel I'm in a dominant position since my laptop is slow. I'd like to compare with them when I get out there.
After I lose I'll also go back and grab sistine and see how that changes the game. The Great Library and sistine I think are the only wonders that you have a chance at this game. They go much faster on deity
EDIT well sistine if you don't trade the aesthetics line. And did you bulb your way through paper/education or settle GSs? I'm going to try settling them all from now.
Can you post some later saves? Like 1000 AD and when you got calvary? I've never actually fought with calvary since I always stop my games at immortal when I feel I'm in a dominant position since my laptop is slow. I'd like to compare with them when I get out there.
After I lose I'll also go back and grab sistine and see how that changes the game. The Great Library and sistine I think are the only wonders that you have a chance at this game. They go much faster on deity
EDIT well sistine if you don't trade the aesthetics line. And did you bulb your way through paper/education or settle GSs? I'm going to try settling them all from now.
Couldn't sleep so I played a few more turns, and heres the situation:
I also have 400 gold coming next turn from not finishing the parthenon.
Should I switch to caste? I probably want to whip out universities though.. But thats 2 extra scientists or 24 extra GP points / turn.
What do I trade Philo for? or do I since:
I think I can get liberalism first no? I have 1 GS in my capital, and 2 more will come in 12 turns. I can research CS myself in 12 turns, then bulb through education and research liberalism in ~15 turns?
Theres a barb city in the SW my scout just found - I can hook up my horse and spam some chariots down there... If I take it and then gift it back I think I will remain at friendly with Mansa after converting to free religion. He has 1 chariot next to it and has lots of units sitting on our border so it could go any time.. Of course then I'm not building hindu temples/monastaries for +2 hammers..
Am I in a position to be able to take out Mansa at some point? When?
Oh yeah and I have only 4 cities. Am I late getting others out? I was building the parthenon for 20 something turns.. I could have chopped it out and did a settler in the capital earlier.
Spoiler :
I also have 400 gold coming next turn from not finishing the parthenon.
Should I switch to caste? I probably want to whip out universities though.. But thats 2 extra scientists or 24 extra GP points / turn.
What do I trade Philo for? or do I since:
I think I can get liberalism first no? I have 1 GS in my capital, and 2 more will come in 12 turns. I can research CS myself in 12 turns, then bulb through education and research liberalism in ~15 turns?
Theres a barb city in the SW my scout just found - I can hook up my horse and spam some chariots down there... If I take it and then gift it back I think I will remain at friendly with Mansa after converting to free religion. He has 1 chariot next to it and has lots of units sitting on our border so it could go any time.. Of course then I'm not building hindu temples/monastaries for +2 hammers..
Am I in a position to be able to take out Mansa at some point? When?
Oh yeah and I have only 4 cities. Am I late getting others out? I was building the parthenon for 20 something turns.. I could have chopped it out and did a settler in the capital earlier.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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How did mansa wipe a 70 unit stack of infantry/arty/AT? Did you enter his territory before killing HIS SoD? Generally before wars like this you want to scout out all their cities (very easy once they have rails but pretty easy even before) and find out their units and the existence of a stack. When it's in your territory, collateral initiative is a big advantage.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
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Once they get engineering though, it becomes such a mess to deal with the VAST #'s of troops accrued while attempting bombardment, and suiciding cats into 100% on deity, while I haven't tried it, doesn't seem workable.
I guess one could go heavy on EP after construction/HBR and try a combined spies/siege approach, but coming up with enough basic to compete at that point still seems problematic.
I'd also love to see it though.
I guess one could go heavy on EP after construction/HBR and try a combined spies/siege approach, but coming up with enough basic
to compete at that point still seems problematic.I'd also love to see it though.
I think the big problem was that he never had a war the whole game, so he never lost any units along the way. And I couldn't really wait for his stack to come into my territory, because his cultural borders were right up against 2 of my cities (in fact, they had engulfed one of my cities). So on the turn I declared, he had units in his borders, attacking both of my culture-swarmed cities. To wait for him would have meant him first taking the two culture-swarmed cities.
So I figured to heck with it, I'd send my entire stack toward him. He had loads of tanks, artillery and infantry, with air support as well. I only had about 10 AT in the stack, and each turn he whittled away on it from his various cities. I never saw an SoD from him - I think he just had miscellaneous units throughout each of his cities.
I knew I had no chance to win the war - just wanted to raze a single city for some self-gratification. I can see why this level is going to be frustrating though. In my second attempt now (the liz game Dirk posted), I'm seeing that having tech and production both is really challenging, much more so than even immortal.
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