Five take on the world revisited (5CCC - deity)

[Aggie]

Exactly what I said microbe Let's let those deals run out and then dogpile the Sumerians until they are no threat anymore. Which may be a long time. We will be in the best position in a defensive war, because we will not spread weak units all over the place as the AI does. I'm convinced that this is the way to go.
EDIT: Getting the Sumerians in a Fascist government, that alone already would be profitable for us.

 

[microbe]

Another good thing is if Sumeria still has all its offensive forces at the Zulu border..not sure the AI behavior in this case.

We should have signed RoP with AI to watch their wars. That would help estimate how strong they are.

 

[LKendter]

950 AD (pre-turn)
I upgrade all of our troops. We need to be ready for any potential wars.


980 AD
Sumeria has infantry as we are dead meat. I am force to now play cheapest tech source and pray we can catch up somehow. I ship the Zulu $41/turn and $1463 and get medicine.


1000 AD
(IT) Add a new level of we are in deep trouble - Sumeria starts ToE.


Summary:
I am stumped what to do this game. We waited too long to go after Sumeria. They control both research wonders, have Smith's, free barracks, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't make it back to me due to the Sumerians wining a UN vote.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/5CCR-1050AD.zip

I don't know what is going on with the file server. Will check this again tomorrow.

 

[Aggie]

I don't have access to the game right now. But obviously it is not good to see Sumeria with infantry.

But this doesn't mean that we should hesitiate now. Let's dogpile them and play a defensive role in this war. The only way to hurt Sumeria is by isolating them and keeping them at war with 3 deity foes. Sumeria will never win a UN vote

ROSTER:
Nad
gozpel
Aggie
LKendter
Hotrod0823---up
microbe-------on deck

 

[Aggie]

Lee, why do we have a Spices for gpt deal with Sumeria? It will last for another 19 turns!

We have been discussing a dopgile on Sumeria. You may or may not have agreed with it, but you could at least have considered it. You didn't even mention this crucial event in the turnlog

This changes everything. We are FORCED to be peaceful for 19 turns more, allowing the Sumerians to grow ever stronger. I am at a loss what to do now. Does anyone else have a good alternative strategy?

 

[Nad]

Aggie: maybe we could try some espionage and get the Sumerians to declare on us? Can we afford immediate tech steals? Can we issue boot orders?

 

[LKendter]

Lee, why do we have a Spices for gpt deal with Sumeria? It will last for another 19 turns!

Sorry about that. I totally space out. All those renegiotates screens came up, and I just got the luxuries back on auto-pilot. We had zero play room for a single lost luxury.

Maybe it is time to start trying risky steals versus Sumeria. If we get the techs we win, and if war happens we win.

This is definitely a poor performance game for me.

==========================================

Let's dogpile them and play a defensive role in this war.

At this point the other AIs will make almost no progress versus Sumeria.

 

[Aggie]

We need 1341 gold for an immediate steal. We only have 770 and 91 gpt. But we also need about 500 gold per civ for MA's. So we have to wait for Sumerian troops to enter our lands. But why should they, unless they want to sneak attack us? They are at peace with the world and our land isn't on a highway to the other 3 tribes.

EDIT: 3 tribes vs 1 should be at least balancing. Despite the fact that that 1 tribe is far advanced. The Sumerians would change for Democracy to Fascism and as soon as we would get to artillery they would be inb trouble. I figure that it is was better to have a dogpile than keep things as they are now.

EDIT2: I know that steal attempts are the obvious choice now. But every chance we get to order a Sumerian out we must grab!

 

[Nad]

I guess that leaves little alternative but to watch for opportunities.

It's a pity there's only 5 civs in the game at the moment, the more civs the more chance of a MPP-triggered world war. Are the Aztecs and Dutch still fighting? There is always the chance that alliances could be formed. The Zulu and Aztecs have very high aggression, so one of them might start another war. I still think we mustn't panic...I do not believe that our opportunity in this game is over. Just play it by ear, and once we have 2000-ish gp, then maybe try an immediate steal so that we could still afford at least one ally (Aztecs).

 

[Aggie]

We make 97 gpt, rising to 132 gpt when we cancel the iron deal with the Zulu. So we should have enough gold to try an immediate steal in 5 turns. When that fails and war is declared, we will probalby be albe to get the rest behind us in a MA (30 gpt each should be enough?)

 

[Nad]

We make 97 gpt, rising to 132 gpt when we cancel the iron deal with the Zulu. So we should have enough gold to try an immediate steal in 5 turns. When that fails and war is declared, we will probalby be albe to get the rest behind us in a MA (30 gpt each should be enough?)

Don't rule out the possibility that it might succeed . Then we can probably make a killing from selling the tech and get alliances easily.

 

[Aggie]

So Lee is right, that's a win-win situation

 

[Aggie]

Hotrod is skipped, microbe is up.

ROSTER:
Nad-------on deck
gozpel
Aggie
LKendter
Hotrod0823
microbe-------up

 

[Foresight]

Before you guys try a steal, make sure you DEMAND CASH from them as much as possible. Last thing you need is a failed attempt and having them shrugging it off.

 

[Greebley]

You can fail to get the tech but not get caught. That seems to happen a lot to me when I try this "win-win" situation (so its win-Doh!-win ).

 

[Aggie]

Greebley, I intentionally didn't mention this

 

[microbe]

I'm looking at the save, and notice Sumeria and Aztecs have MPP.

I don't think we can fight two fronts. A total dogpile isn't possible, and we have 17-turn incense deal with Aztecs too.

We can still try stealing, and make sure we never attack Sumerians outside our own territory. But if we ally with Zulu or Netherlands, Aztecs will declare on them and I'm afraid it will make Sumeria even stronger.

So I'll hold on the plan till the MPP expires.

 

[LKendter]

I'm looking at the save, and notice Sumeria and Aztecs have MPP.

I don't think we can fight two fronts. A total dogpile isn't possible, and we have 17-turn incense deal with Aztecs too.

You could sign an MPP with the Aztecs. Let Sumeria hit us inside our territory first. Our MPP will take priority and the Aztecs declare war.

 

[microbe]

Ah! Great idea! I'll do that.

 

[microbe]

preturn: hire a scientist in Gordium to start on Sanitation.

(1)1060AD:

(2)1070AD: more AI gets Communism/Facism.

(3)1080AD:

(4)1090AD: Lux deal with Aztecs expired. Also cancel the saltpeter deal as we now have our own.

Our income dropped a bit to 60gpt.

(5)1100AD:

(6)1110AD: Cancel horses deal with Netherlands to see if we can buy it cheaper, nope, still 15gpt.

(7)1120AD:

(8)1130AD:

(9)1140AD: Aztecs have steam power.

(10)1150AD: We have enough gold for an immediate steal now.

I sign MPP with Aztecs for 3gpt.

I demand Steam Power twice from Sumeria to bring it from Cautious to Furious.

I try an immediate steal and it succeeds! We have coal at Persepolis!

Well, I guess we'll have to railroad then.

Only Netherlands lack Steam Power now, so I sell to it for WM+26g+62gpt.

We don't have enough money to try any steal before the deal with Sumeria runs out anyway, so the next player can just declare. What I'm not sure about is that will it trigger MPP if we declare but not attack?

Another bad thing is that since Sumeria has MPP with Aztecs, we should not sign MA before it triggers, otherwise Aztecs will probably still declare on other AIs if they attack Sumeria. There are two options:
1. sign MPP with everyone else but not MA, so all of the MPPs will trigger when Sumeria attacks us.
2. sign MA with other AIs only after Aztecs declare on Sumeria, and hope Sumeria won't make MA with them first.