Flavor Units Project

[kevincompton]

How is the quality control gonne be on this project? A lot of the unit designers on here are awesome and make perfect units, but some units are less up to par and look awkward when placed in the game.

BTW, Dom Pedro II: If you need any admin help i can. I can't design units but I think this project is awesome and would like to help however I can.

 

[civclub]

The pictures of some Chinese soldiers

Ancient times

Middle Ages

1644-1911

 

[Dom Pedro II]

This is what I like to see! Awesome!

 

[Dom Pedro II]

How is the quality control gonne be on this project? A lot of the unit designers on here are awesome and make perfect units, but some units are less up to par and look awkward when placed in the game.

BTW, Dom Pedro II: If you need any admin help i can. I can't design units but I think this project is awesome and would like to help however I can.

There is no quality control persay for this project. And yes, some units are definitely not up to par... my early works would be prime examples of being just a bit awkward in game.

As I've said, this isn't a mod, but rather an organizational resource, so unit creators are free to make whatever they want, but this is meant to be a reference so people can see what still needs to be done and maybe we can offer some inspirational links to pictures, etc.

That said, IMO, the Flavor Units Project has been something of a failure... there really has been no coordination or cooperation on the part of the unit makers due to this effort... And the other problem is that, in general, we have fewer and fewer unit makers and those that remain are producing more niche units.

We are on what I'd call our "Third Generation" of Unit Makers... the First Generation was Dark Sheer, Smoking Mirror, tpasmall, nonnob3, Kryten, and JimmyH as far as the major producers go... Kinboat was doing stuff then, but he didn't really start producing a lot and his higher quality units until what I'd call the Second Generation got going... Kinboat, Bouboulgadol, Balou, embryodead, utahjazz7, Kindred72, BeBro, Hunter, W.i.n.t.e.r.... and a little later Wyrmshadow and aaglo... and on the tail end of that... me! Of course, there were other artists in there as well, if I forgot you, I'm sorry.. but I think that basically covers the big producers (although I didn't produce the bulk of my units until post C3C). And then the Third Generation is basically post-C3C... muffins, The Great Apple, Dease, A Viking Yeti.

Notice that the Third Generation is much smaller than the first two... and of those, most of them are producing things for specific mods rather than the epic game... and as for the earlier artists: Kinboat is still making units, but he's busy and does not put out nearly as many as he used to, utahjazz7 is still going but unfortunately also is not doing as many units as once was the case, embryodead hasn't done much for a while, Kindred, Bouboulgadol, and Balou have stopped making units, aaglo is... I don't really know what aaglo's status is at the moment... BeBro's still going pretty strong... and so is Wyrmshadow, but he works mostly on modern units which are primarily for the same group of civs... And worst of all, the number of unit creators has dwindled, but the number of requests certainly has not, and so it diverts the limited resources we have even further...

So for flavors... we've got a bit of a crunch here...

 

[The Great Apple]

As I've said, this isn't a mod, but rather an organizational resource, so unit creators are free to make whatever they want, but this is meant to be a reference so people can see what still needs to be done and maybe we can offer some inspirational links to pictures, etc.

It'd be great if somebody could make it into a mod (I'm not saying you should do it DPII), but I would very much like to have a flavour mod which is maintained (updated every month or so with new additions). I personally don't have the time, willpower, or organisational power to handle something so large, but I'm sure there is somebody who could
(BTW, I know about Grey Fox's flavour mod, but he kinda disappeared, and it's no longer maintained)

We are on what I'd call our "Third Generation" of Unit Makers... the First Generation was Dark Sheer, Smoking Mirror, tpasmall, nonnob3, Kryten, and JimmyH as far as the major producers go... Kinboat was doing stuff then, but he didn't really start producing a lot and his higher quality units until what I'd call the Second Generation got going... Kinboat, Bouboulgadol, Balou, embryodead, utahjazz7, Kindred72, BeBro, Hunter, W.i.n.t.e.r.... and a little later Wyrmshadow and aaglo... and on the tail end of that... me! Of course, there were other artists in there as well, if I forgot you, I'm sorry.. but I think that basically covers the big producers (although I didn't produce the bulk of my units until post C3C). And then the Third Generation is basically post-C3C... muffins, The Great Apple, Dease, A Viking Yeti.

Good analysis... I might help with flavours once I'm done with the 40K mod. Unfortunetly, looking at the big unit list ahead of me, that'll probably be a long long time.

Hopefully, when Civ 4 comes, we'll have loads of new unit creators...

And hopefully creating units won't be too much harder than it is at the moment...

 

[kevincompton]

free new units are awesome, but who wants to work hard for free? I bet people would buy graphics. I don't know if its legal but I would pay for a pack of the graphics I need. I'm surprised firaxis hasn't done this already.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

It'd be great if somebody could make it into a mod (I'm not saying you should do it DPII), but I would very much like to have a flavour mod which is maintained (updated every month or so with new additions). I personally don't have the time, willpower, or organisational power to handle something so large, but I'm sure there is somebody who could
(BTW, I know about Grey Fox's flavour mod, but he kinda disappeared, and it's no longer maintained)

Well, my mod gives a flavor unit for every civilization (where the graphics are done) but my mod also has a lot of other changes and is not called the Flavor Units Project (as you all know by now).

Good analysis... I might help with flavours once I'm done with the 40K mod. Unfortunetly, looking at the big unit list ahead of me, that'll probably be a long long time.

Hopefully, when Civ 4 comes, we'll have loads of new unit creators...

And hopefully creating units won't be too much harder than it is at the moment...

Any help would be much appreciated

I still think we might squeeze out another good unit creator or two before Civ4. Unfortunately, with Civ4, all the units up to this point will be useless (I may just stick to Civ3 for that reason or go to Steph's game)

free new units are awesome, but who wants to work hard for free? I bet people would buy graphics. I don't know if its legal but I would pay for a pack of the graphics I need. I'm surprised firaxis hasn't done this already.

I totally agree and indeed have said that Firaxis missed out on a great opportunity to make some extra bucks... As for people being able to make units for Civ and selling them... I believe that so long as you don't take anything from Civilization... in other words, so long as you don't cut and paste, you could sell them. You haven't stolen anything, FLC file format is not exclusive to Civ... buyers can do whatever they want with the units... sooo you're not at fault.

However, the precedent has been set. Units are free. We cannot suddenly turn around and start selling them... players would be pretty ticked off if we did Believe me, I thought about it for a while...

 

[The Great Apple]

I still think we might squeeze out another good unit creator or two before Civ4. Unfortunately, with Civ4, all the units up to this point will be useless (I may just stick to Civ3 for that reason or go to Steph's game)

Are you sure they will be useless? Surely there is a chance that they could be converted (It really depends on what 3D means). Also, if we find a way to make units for Civ4, the first steps are likely to be the same (model making, animating), so all that needs re-doing is the final converting step.

Hopefully...

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Are you sure they will be useless? Surely there is a chance that they could be converted (It really depends on what 3D means). Also, if we find a way to make units for Civ4, the first steps are likely to be the same (model making, animating), so all that needs re-doing is the final converting step.

Hopefully...

From what I understand, the game will use 3D models directly... as was explained to me, one only has to then place the 3DS models in the scenario folder... but I find that a little hard to believe.. I really don't know... but I know there will be a way to add unit graphics somehow.

So I'm saving all of my old models for that day... unfortunately, I know many unit creators (Kinboat included) have deleted many of their old models and Poser files to conserve space.

 

[kevincompton]

people wouldn't buy random units they have to search for, but most of the units are kinda crappy. If a good creator were to make a pack including the following, i'd pay a good $20 for it:

18th and 19th century

dragoons
ship of the line 1st 2nd and 3rd
cannons
civ specific units such as jannisary or fusiliers
bunch of other stuff


think about it! The Napoleonic pack or medieval so on. There would have to be a lot of cool stuff in each pack though for someone to pay because otherwise they could just round it up themselves, but think for minute...your paying for convenience. I sure as heck don't want to have to keep sifting through a bunch of bloody star wars and freeking mech units to find one useable unit.

If anyone is interested, I have major marketing/website skills. Team up with me and we could make a bundle.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Stop tempting me... I'm in pretty dire financial straits...

 

[The Great Apple]

Stop tempting me... I'm in pretty dire financial straits...

And I'm a student...

Though I'm probably not up to the required standard yet...

I have considered selling my models online, it would seem that you can get quite a bit from it (I'll PM you the details if you like DP ), for very little effort (once the models are made, which is done anyway for units) though I can't with my current models, as I would run into copywright issues with Games Workshop...

 

[Dease]

paying for units:
NO!
I've created all my units without spending a dime, therefore I wouldn't expect to be paied for them (although I do accept donations )
If people started charging money for units I think the modding community would shrink considerably to an exclusive group of snotty rich people who whose main goal would be to make money (if you start charging for units, just think of the price for a mod with 100+ units )

flavour mod:
I think it wouldn't be too hard to do actually, I mean all you'd have to do is add a whole bunch of units in the editor, pediaicons, and civpedia. You wouldn't have to actually change the stats or anything, just add unique graphics, I'd play

(although I'm not volounteering to do it)

 

[The Great Apple]

paying for units:
NO!
I've created all my units without spending a dime, therefore I wouldn't expect to be paied for them (although I do accept donations )

If people started charging money for units I think the modding community would shrink considerably to an exclusive group of snotty rich people who whose main goal would be to make money (if you start charging for units, just think of the price for a mod with 100+ units )

Agreed 100% Paying for units is not on. However I'm not sure I'm in the same position for selling of models to non-civvers. I supose that using a free modeller means it's just a tiny bit unethical. I'd have to think carefully before actually doing it. I'd probably give my models away to any person who PMed me and asked though.

flavour mod:
I think it wouldn't be too hard to do actually, I mean all you'd have to do is add a whole bunch of units in the editor, pediaicons, and civpedia. You wouldn't have to actually change the stats or anything, just add unique graphics, I'd play

(although I'm not volounteering to do it)

My thoughts exactly. The main trouble is upgrade paths, as you have to have the upgrade chain going along every flavour unit of that type, which can get messy if you don't add all the units at once, and then get it an odd order.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

And I'm a student...

Though I'm probably not up to the required standard yet...

I have considered selling my models online, it would seem that you can get quite a bit from it (I'll PM you the details if you like DP ), for very little effort (once the models are made, which is done anyway for units) though I can't with my current models, as I would run into copywright issues with Games Workshop...

I'm going to sell my models too (when I make some )

But I'm not going to sell units. That'd just be wrong... that said, I MIGHT be tempted to complete the Cut n Paste Project and sell that... *shrugs*

Btw, The Great Apple, if you've ever been to turbosquid, you'd see that very poor quality, low-poly models have gone for far more money than I'd ever pay, so you should have no problem at all finding many more buyers.

But yes... not copyrighted stuff

 

[Dease]

if there's an easy way to do so, I might consider selling some of my models...

as for turbosquid, any idea if thier free models have any copyrights? I may be able to find a commercial use for some of thier models...

 

[Dom Pedro II]

if there's an easy way to do so, I might consider selling some of my models...

as for turbosquid, any idea if thier free models have any copyrights? I may be able to find a commercial use for some of thier models...

Nice try... yes, they do have copyrights... you can make them into Civ units, but you wouldn't be able to redistribute the models legally.

Actually, selling models online is quite easy... any of the major sites, renderosity.com, 3dcommune.com, poserpros.com, BBay.com allow for you to sell models through them... they're like the middle men.

 

[The Great Apple]

if there's an easy way to do so, I might consider selling some of my models...

as for turbosquid, any idea if thier free models have any copyrights? I may be able to find a commercial use for some of thier models...

Turbosquid is the way I was talking about. Seems pretty simple, you get 50%, they get 50%. Easy to upload files, and no costs! I haven't looked anywhere else yet though...

I don't know about the free model copywright, but I'd guess they are (and you certainly aren't allowed to sell them on after downloading them ) I actually have one model up on turbosquid, just cos I wanted to see the uptake it got. It's here.

Sorry for the thread-jacking..

 

[Bóreas]

im giving this thread a new blow of life, and i think its necessary considering what i've found...
check out this website:
http://www.btinternet.com/~peter.dales_soldiers/alymer_ancients.htm
it could be really helpful to any interested unit maker

 

[Figaro]

Here's a few thoughts of mine on the topics discussed on this thread:

1. Paying for units, while I'm sure it's different from the point of view of the unit designers, would certainly lose 90%+ of the downloaders IMO.

2. Couldn't help noticing the big post a page back on the Celts, I'd just like to point out that there were as many Celtic tribes in Wales as Ireland or Scotland. As a fluent Welsh speaker (one of about 200,000, making it the most widely spoken Celtic language on the planet by a LOT) and proudly Welsh person I resent the fact that Wales seems to get continually ignored in regards to its celtic ancestry. I would be quite happy to provide Welsh translations etc. etc. for Celtic unit names if you want. Wales perhaps deserves a civ to itself (considering some of the obscure civs out there) - the famous "British" Longbows were in fact Welsh, and there were tons of rebellions, wars etc. etc. between the Welsh and English.

3. On Flavour (sorry, I'm a Brit so the U stays!) units in general, don't lose heart whoever said this project is a failiure. I think perhaps the only mistake you're making is being too ambitious - I'm putting together a mod of sorts with completely unique armies for each civilization, some 12 of the 16 in the original Civ3. The fact is, it's nigh on impossible to design, for example, a Polynesian Mechanized Infantry, or an Arawak paratrooper. If you stick to only the less obscure civilizations you will need fewer units and be able to quickly get 20+ decent entirely-flavour-unit civilizations up and running, and then focus on peoples like the Polynesians...or the Welsh.
You could also simplify things a lot by picking and choosing which units to replace - I'm not bothered about adding 12 civ-specific Catapults into my mod, or a different Settler for every civ. Likewise you can combine civilizations - the native american indians for example died out before reaching the Industrial era of the Civ3 tech tree, but the Americans (as in Abraham Lincoln) only came into existence at the end of the middle ages era of the Civ3 tree, so in my mod I lump them both under the same civ. That way, I avoid having to find units like Iroquois Paratroopers and at the same time don't need to find American Spearmen, who would be identical to the English ones anyway. Sure, it's inaccurate that Iroquis with muskets suddenly turn into American Civil war riflemen, but who cares? The area on the map is still occupied by the right people.
In the same way I have been able to lump together the Celts and English under "Britons", combine the Romans and Italians and so on.

As a mere casual player I resent seeming like I'm telling other people how to play their game, but this is the approach I find gets the most out of it. Spend ages building Polynesian Mechanized Infantry and we end up spending more time downloading units than we do actually playing the mod, which can't be a good thing.