FM01 Team Barbarian OCC (Prince)
- Thread starter friskymike
- Start date
friskymike
Listening to:
PPS I checked the Ozzy's forest chopping grid today, the bottom forest I marked is actually inside the border, please change the sign JH. btw on epic chop values go from 7 hammers at radius 8 to 45 hammers at radius 3 and closer. I marked it out for ease of reference: (excuse the window, I don't know how that got in the screenshot)
We should consider chopping outer forests first so that we get them rather than AI or barbarian cities... but that depends on whether we need to race to the Oracle... decision decisions thats what I love about this game
edit: Thanks rddc, if 1200 BC is correct we may need to rush towards the Oracle.
We should consider chopping outer forests first so that we get them rather than AI or barbarian cities... but that depends on whether we need to race to the Oracle... decision decisions thats what I love about this game
edit: Thanks rddc, if 1200 BC is correct we may need to rush towards the Oracle.
AyanamiRei
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2006
- Messages
- 34
Don't you neeed at least 6 theaters to get a globe theatre?
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
I'll evaluate the situation tonight.
Normally, going for the pyramids would be a no brainer. However, I am thinking that CS sling might serve the barbarian interests more.
Question: Given the game dynamic (never teamed with barbs before in this kind of setting)...does a Permanent Alliance mean that the Barbs would also get our bonus for the pyramid?
Because if they do not, the choice is clear. To me.
Normally, going for the pyramids would be a no brainer. However, I am thinking that CS sling might serve the barbarian interests more.
Question: Given the game dynamic (never teamed with barbs before in this kind of setting)...does a Permanent Alliance mean that the Barbs would also get our bonus for the pyramid?
Because if they do not, the choice is clear. To me.
friskymike
Listening to:
Well, I don't think the barbs would change civics when we do... let me check my save from my test game. Also I want to test when a game with the same civs build the oracle and pyramids...
Thinking about it a bit more we may not actually run specialists for a little while so the representation bonus isn't so critical to get early, and the oracle is quick to build so there would be no harm getting it first, as long as we have something useful to build while we wait for the techs we need... we don't want to be stuck waiting to research priesthood wasting hammers.
AyanamiRei: Selecting OCC removes restrictions on number of buildings or number of national wonders per city. Only restriction not removed is needing 3 cities for a cultural win, so you need to be in a team or permanent alliance to win like that with a OCC game.
Thinking about it a bit more we may not actually run specialists for a little while so the representation bonus isn't so critical to get early, and the oracle is quick to build so there would be no harm getting it first, as long as we have something useful to build while we wait for the techs we need... we don't want to be stuck waiting to research priesthood wasting hammers.
AyanamiRei: Selecting OCC removes restrictions on number of buildings or number of national wonders per city. Only restriction not removed is needing 3 cities for a cultural win, so you need to be in a team or permanent alliance to win like that with a OCC game.
friskymike
Listening to:
Hmmm... it still might be worthwhile to try for a quick Oracle, but after Masonry and Writing so we have something to build while waiting for Priesthood (at the moment the only useful thing after workers/warriors is granary/barracks)?? Up to you JH whatever you think is best. I will run a test over the next hour to see when these civs build wonders if you can wait that long to play...
By the way, I checked my test tiny/quick/noble OCC save, 1835 the barbs have 5 cities, and are getting +3 beakers from specialists as per representation, and we definitely haven't researched constitution yet. Their cities also have the +3 happies from "we love this great city of ours" bonus from representation. Also I just noticed that I recently captured the christian holy city, and they converted to christianity. Previously they had jewism (from elsewhere) spread to them and taoism (from me), but I'm not sure if they had adopted it I wasn't playing close enough attention. I revolted to despotism and taosims, and they stayed in what looks like representation and christianity. So it looks like they do get the Pyramids abilities, and make their own decisions about civics/religions. This is good to know, as it makes continent/civilisation wide wonders very useful to help our barbarian friends.
Thats why this game will be so good as an SG, I hope we will pay much closer attention to what Barbs are doing - in terms of civics, religions, builds, movement of units etc - than what I did in my single player test game and then we can all learn from each others observations.
By the way, I checked my test tiny/quick/noble OCC save, 1835 the barbs have 5 cities, and are getting +3 beakers from specialists as per representation, and we definitely haven't researched constitution yet. Their cities also have the +3 happies from "we love this great city of ours" bonus from representation. Also I just noticed that I recently captured the christian holy city, and they converted to christianity. Previously they had jewism (from elsewhere) spread to them and taoism (from me), but I'm not sure if they had adopted it I wasn't playing close enough attention. I revolted to despotism and taosims, and they stayed in what looks like representation and christianity. So it looks like they do get the Pyramids abilities, and make their own decisions about civics/religions. This is good to know, as it makes continent/civilisation wide wonders very useful to help our barbarian friends.
Thats why this game will be so good as an SG, I hope we will pay much closer attention to what Barbs are doing - in terms of civics, religions, builds, movement of units etc - than what I did in my single player test game and then we can all learn from each others observations.
friskymike
Listening to:
Just played a test Prince game to 500 AD with the same settings and civs - map was more circular which probably speeded contact, tech trading etc. Concerning thing was none of the AIs offered peace, so war weariness started to become a real problem. Also I needed a few chariots to take on AI warriors and archers that kept appearing in the AD times...
In my Noble test game all the AIs offered peace eventually... this could be challenging! Maybe we'd need to raze some cities to get peace... At least on our 'C' map we will only face one AI at a time hopefully.
Anyway, Stonehenge was built in AD 260 by Hatty, Oracle in AD 440 by Asoka, Pyramids hadn't been built by 500 AD. So I don't think we really need to worry about the wonders. The raging barbs seemed to really slow the AIs down, Washington was even eliminated by the barbs
In my Noble test game all the AIs offered peace eventually... this could be challenging! Maybe we'd need to raze some cities to get peace... At least on our 'C' map we will only face one AI at a time hopefully.
Anyway, Stonehenge was built in AD 260 by Hatty, Oracle in AD 440 by Asoka, Pyramids hadn't been built by 500 AD. So I don't think we really need to worry about the wonders. The raging barbs seemed to really slow the AIs down, Washington was even eliminated by the barbs
Sina
Warlord
Lurker's comment:
This is a nice idea and will be interesting to read.
I'm not sure I'm thinking the same about the CS slingshot as you are. In my experience it involves a GP reasearching CS and that means no Masonry before that Prophet. Maybe I'm just on a diferent variant though.
It is certainly possible to get Oracle/Confusianism/Prophet/CS in time to then research Masonry and chop the Pyramids on Prince and with luck and a good capital even on Monarch. That might be different with and Ind civ with stone around.
This is a nice idea and will be interesting to read.
I'm not sure I'm thinking the same about the CS slingshot as you are. In my experience it involves a GP reasearching CS and that means no Masonry before that Prophet. Maybe I'm just on a diferent variant though.
It is certainly possible to get Oracle/Confusianism/Prophet/CS in time to then research Masonry and chop the Pyramids on Prince and with luck and a good capital even on Monarch. That might be different with and Ind civ with stone around.
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
Well, I've started us down the road of that CS Slingshot variant.
The year is 1000 BC
Asoka has been wiped off the face of the Earth by the Barbarians. They are now holy anarchist Buddhists.
We have a few more warriors, a few more workers, and I've been chopping. You'll notice that Stonehenge should be in the queue. If not, its because I saved at 1000 BC but remember that was my cutoff.
If we want to do the CS Sling right, we can build stonehenge while capturing the chops for the pyramids. We're very close.
In fact, we can revolt to slavery and whip off the war weariness unhappy faces when we need to. Hatty will declare peace, and so will Washington if it hasn't happened yet.
Turn 50 (2000 BC)
Turn 51 (1975 BC)
User comment: We are the most uncultured civ...HOORAH!
User comment: Leave things as are , will edit as time goes on...
Turn 52 (1950 BC)
User comment: Asoka's warriors appear on or border
Tech learned: Hunting
Turn 53 (1925 BC)
User comment: We learn hunting..I guesss the barbs did
User comment: Since we learned hunting, I move the worker to build a camp
Turn 54 (1900 BC)
User comment: Osaka does not enter our AoC
Turn 55 (1875 BC)
User comment: 79% chance not enough to attack Asoka. But I move our warrior to the trees to bait
London finishes: Worker
Turn 56 (1850 BC)
User comment: He's healing, the opportunity is lost
User comment: Forest grows on the plains hill! It is a good day to be a barbarian
User comment: I'm going to mine the plains hill, plsu we'll get a forest chop
London begins: Warrior
User comment: Asoka's warrior makes me nervous. I change production to the hill, to produce a warrior. I hope that the chop will go towards a worker
Turn 57 (1825 BC)
Turn 58 (1800 BC)
Tech learned: Bronze Working
Turn 59 (1775 BC)
Research begun: Masonry
User comment: No reasons to whip right now, so I do not revert to slavery...Also, i go for masonry next.
User comment: Mining the hill, chop will go to worker, roading the camp
User comment: Barbarian warriors are appearing
London finishes: Warrior
Turn 60 (1750 BC)
User comment: Okay, we have marble, but no in our AoC...hmmm....
User comment:
User comment: It is two expansions away
London begins: Worker
London begins: Warrior
London begins: Granary
User comment: Micromanage to grow and build a granary..that will help us recover from whipping...will switch to catch chop for worker
Turn 61 (1725 BC)
Turn 62 (1700 BC)
User comment: Barb warriors near Asoka survive his attack, promot...going to pillage a farm
User comment: AXEMEN, The barbs have AXEMEN! Asoka.....hahaha
User comment: Barbs going to attack St. Pete
User comment: eBarbs pillaging Monty
User comment: Lots of axes around Asoka
Turn 63 (1675 BC)
Turn 64 (1650 BC)
User comment: YEEEESSSSS!!!! Bombay is razed by our barbarian brothers!
User comment: 3 axemen and a warrior are converging on Asoka
Judaism founded in a distant land
Turn 65 (1625 BC)
User comment: Someone...could it be Asoka...I am hoping...!
Tech learned: Masonry
Turn 66 (1600 BC)
Research begun: Animal Husbandry
User comment: I take animal Husbandry to hookup the cows, then will be going for oracle techs
User comment: Asoka is dead...
Tech learned: Animal Husbandry
Turn 67 (1575 BC)
Research begun: Mysticism
User comment: Oops...chopped a granary...Hey, I wonder if StoneHenge would do us good...
London finishes: Granary
Turn 68 (1550 BC)
London begins: Worker
Turn 69 (1525 BC)
User comment: YEEEESSS!!!!!!!
Turn 70 (1500 BC)
User comment: Hatty may not be long for this world....
User comment: Monty also has problems
User comment: As Does Peter
Tech learned: Mysticism
Turn 71 (1475 BC)
Research begun: Agriculture
London finishes: Worker
Turn 72 (1450 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Barracks
London begins: The Pyramids
Tech learned: Agriculture
Turn 73 (1425 BC)
Research begun: Meditation
London begins: Barracks
Turn 74 (1400 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London's borders expand
Turn 75 (1375 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Barracks
Turn 76 (1350 BC)
User comment: Washington opts for peace...for now...
Turn 77 (1325 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Barracks
Turn 78 (1300 BC)
User comment: YEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!
Turn 79 (1275 BC)
Turn 80 (1250 BC)
London finishes: Barracks
Turn 81 (1225 BC)
Turn 82 (1200 BC)
London grows: 4
Turn 83 (1175 BC)
User comment: Barbarians spawn inside our borders
London begins: Worker
Turn 84 (1150 BC)
Turn 85 (1125 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
Tech learned: Meditation
Turn 86 (1100 BC)
Research begun: Priesthood
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Worker
Turn 87 (1075 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Worker
Turn 88 (1050 BC)
Turn 89 (1025 BC)
Turn 90 (1000 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Worker
London finishes: Worker
It was the next turn I started Stonehenge. If we just build it (MM to max shields) we should have 2 unhappy with 7 turns left to build it (chops going to pyramids) and whip...and get Stonehenge. Then pyramids would be a few turns behind.
We can then get to Oracle and CS slingie.
YEESSSSS!!!! means the barbs took over or razed a city.
The year is 1000 BC
Asoka has been wiped off the face of the Earth by the Barbarians. They are now holy anarchist Buddhists.
We have a few more warriors, a few more workers, and I've been chopping. You'll notice that Stonehenge should be in the queue. If not, its because I saved at 1000 BC but remember that was my cutoff.
If we want to do the CS Sling right, we can build stonehenge while capturing the chops for the pyramids. We're very close.
In fact, we can revolt to slavery and whip off the war weariness unhappy faces when we need to. Hatty will declare peace, and so will Washington if it hasn't happened yet.
Turn 50 (2000 BC)
Turn 51 (1975 BC)
User comment: We are the most uncultured civ...HOORAH!
User comment: Leave things as are , will edit as time goes on...
Turn 52 (1950 BC)
User comment: Asoka's warriors appear on or border
Tech learned: Hunting
Turn 53 (1925 BC)
User comment: We learn hunting..I guesss the barbs did
User comment: Since we learned hunting, I move the worker to build a camp
Turn 54 (1900 BC)
User comment: Osaka does not enter our AoC
Turn 55 (1875 BC)
User comment: 79% chance not enough to attack Asoka. But I move our warrior to the trees to bait
London finishes: Worker
Turn 56 (1850 BC)
User comment: He's healing, the opportunity is lost
User comment: Forest grows on the plains hill! It is a good day to be a barbarian
User comment: I'm going to mine the plains hill, plsu we'll get a forest chop
London begins: Warrior
User comment: Asoka's warrior makes me nervous. I change production to the hill, to produce a warrior. I hope that the chop will go towards a worker
Turn 57 (1825 BC)
Turn 58 (1800 BC)
Tech learned: Bronze Working
Turn 59 (1775 BC)
Research begun: Masonry
User comment: No reasons to whip right now, so I do not revert to slavery...Also, i go for masonry next.
User comment: Mining the hill, chop will go to worker, roading the camp
User comment: Barbarian warriors are appearing
London finishes: Warrior
Turn 60 (1750 BC)
User comment: Okay, we have marble, but no in our AoC...hmmm....
User comment:
User comment: It is two expansions away
London begins: Worker
London begins: Warrior
London begins: Granary
User comment: Micromanage to grow and build a granary..that will help us recover from whipping...will switch to catch chop for worker
Turn 61 (1725 BC)
Turn 62 (1700 BC)
User comment: Barb warriors near Asoka survive his attack, promot...going to pillage a farm
User comment: AXEMEN, The barbs have AXEMEN! Asoka.....hahaha
User comment: Barbs going to attack St. Pete
User comment: eBarbs pillaging Monty
User comment: Lots of axes around Asoka
Turn 63 (1675 BC)
Turn 64 (1650 BC)
User comment: YEEEESSSSS!!!! Bombay is razed by our barbarian brothers!
User comment: 3 axemen and a warrior are converging on Asoka
Judaism founded in a distant land
Turn 65 (1625 BC)
User comment: Someone...could it be Asoka...I am hoping...!
Tech learned: Masonry
Turn 66 (1600 BC)
Research begun: Animal Husbandry
User comment: I take animal Husbandry to hookup the cows, then will be going for oracle techs
User comment: Asoka is dead...
Tech learned: Animal Husbandry
Turn 67 (1575 BC)
Research begun: Mysticism
User comment: Oops...chopped a granary...Hey, I wonder if StoneHenge would do us good...
London finishes: Granary
Turn 68 (1550 BC)
London begins: Worker
Turn 69 (1525 BC)
User comment: YEEEESSS!!!!!!!
Turn 70 (1500 BC)
User comment: Hatty may not be long for this world....
User comment: Monty also has problems
User comment: As Does Peter
Tech learned: Mysticism
Turn 71 (1475 BC)
Research begun: Agriculture
London finishes: Worker
Turn 72 (1450 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Barracks
London begins: The Pyramids
Tech learned: Agriculture
Turn 73 (1425 BC)
Research begun: Meditation
London begins: Barracks
Turn 74 (1400 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London's borders expand
Turn 75 (1375 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Barracks
Turn 76 (1350 BC)
User comment: Washington opts for peace...for now...
Turn 77 (1325 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Barracks
Turn 78 (1300 BC)
User comment: YEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!
Turn 79 (1275 BC)
Turn 80 (1250 BC)
London finishes: Barracks
Turn 81 (1225 BC)
Turn 82 (1200 BC)
London grows: 4
Turn 83 (1175 BC)
User comment: Barbarians spawn inside our borders
London begins: Worker
Turn 84 (1150 BC)
Turn 85 (1125 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
Tech learned: Meditation
Turn 86 (1100 BC)
Research begun: Priesthood
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Worker
Turn 87 (1075 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Worker
Turn 88 (1050 BC)
Turn 89 (1025 BC)
Turn 90 (1000 BC)
London begins: The Pyramids
London begins: Worker
London finishes: Worker
It was the next turn I started Stonehenge. If we just build it (MM to max shields) we should have 2 unhappy with 7 turns left to build it (chops going to pyramids) and whip...and get Stonehenge. Then pyramids would be a few turns behind.
We can then get to Oracle and CS slingie.
YEESSSSS!!!! means the barbs took over or razed a city.
Pvblivs
Scriptor
Got it. If possible, play tonight. Just got to look when I return from the cinema
friskymike
Listening to:
Great moves JH! 
I had a quick look at the save, stonehenge isn't in the queue at the moment. Stonehenge is actually a great idea, so that barb cities that spawn will get border expansions. I'm not convinced if its a good idea before Pyramids though, as it may reduce our chance of a Great Engineer. Also we have +1 war weariness (for the lurkers we are still at war with Peter & Monty, but have made peace with Washington & Hatty) so the happies from Representation would be useful.
On the otherhand stonehenge with 2 or 3 workers chopping would be quite quick, and Priests aren't so bad as the priest can be used for a tech for us or the super specialist which give +1 hammer which will really be needed in a OCC game. The barbarians have the Buddhist holy city of Delhi and also the Jewish holy city of Memphis, I wonder if it useful to help them get a shrine? That would generate income for them, but I don't know if they really need shrine income, and we probably need the techs or hammers from the super specialists more.
I saw an article somewhere which explained which techs you got from great people, I'll try and find that.
I'll post some screenies for lurkers when I get to work.
I had a quick look at the save, stonehenge isn't in the queue at the moment. Stonehenge is actually a great idea, so that barb cities that spawn will get border expansions. I'm not convinced if its a good idea before Pyramids though, as it may reduce our chance of a Great Engineer. Also we have +1 war weariness (for the lurkers we are still at war with Peter & Monty, but have made peace with Washington & Hatty) so the happies from Representation would be useful.
On the otherhand stonehenge with 2 or 3 workers chopping would be quite quick, and Priests aren't so bad as the priest can be used for a tech for us or the super specialist which give +1 hammer which will really be needed in a OCC game. The barbarians have the Buddhist holy city of Delhi and also the Jewish holy city of Memphis, I wonder if it useful to help them get a shrine? That would generate income for them, but I don't know if they really need shrine income, and we probably need the techs or hammers from the super specialists more.
I saw an article somewhere which explained which techs you got from great people, I'll try and find that.
I'll post some screenies for lurkers when I get to work.
friskymike
Listening to:
Sina said:
CS slingshot normally refers to timing completing the Oracle with discovering CoL so that you can then choose Civil Service. This allows you to get Masonry and build pyramids before the Oracle, which I think is an advantage as you have more chance of a Great Engineer, once Pyramids are 'diluted' with other wonders your change of GE really goes down a lot.
I found the reference I was thinking of for determining which tech a great person would give you, see this thread by DaveMcW. I'm not sure how his table applies to what you describe though.
In any case, we are fortunate in that the industrious indians have been wiped out by our teammates
Pvblivs
Scriptor
Already looking forward to having your screenshots, friskymike. I really want to know before I play what is cottaged and what not. It would be good to discuss some...
We don't have a very food-rich city, have we? We might end up building some farms to support at least some scientists. After all we're philosophical...
We don't have a very food-rich city, have we? We might end up building some farms to support at least some scientists. After all we're philosophical...
friskymike
Listening to:
London - note on the happiness limit
Delhi (buddhist holy city) - barbs get 6 happies it looks like
Memphis (jewish holy city)
Monty will be attacking Memphis and Peter attacking Delhi. We probably can't do anything to help Memphis, but we should see if we can try and help defend Delhi. We don't have copper, do we have horses? If so horse archers would be perfect for this, we should try and build some in between some wonders.
Thinking about it a bit more, I would chop another worker maybe even 2 in addition to the one building, so we have 1 improving London and 3 or 4 out chopping and can really build the wonders we need quickly so we can then get on to helping the barbarians. Also I think I would chop Pyramids before Stonehenge/Oracle, so we can revolt to Representation earlier and grow London as at the moment it is stalled on 4 due to the war weariness. After this Globe Theatre is vital, otherwise the war weariness will kill us.
In between all that we need HR for Horse Archer, Iron Working to see if we have Iron for Maces and Sailing for trade routes with any Barb Cities on the coast. Not sure if any of the AIs would give us open borders for coastal trade routes, we'd probably have to gift them some techs first as none of them like us much as we 'declared war on them'. So many choices
You are right of course we want to run some scientists to leverage our philosphical leader and get a GS for the academy.
OK, we have netted clams with +2 food above the 2 required to support the working citizen. Pasteurized cows with +1 and camped deer with +2. So thats +5 food. Working a mined plains hill is -1 food leaving us +4 for two specialists and no growth. We have two grass cottages, one on the river and one next to the lake. We have three grass tiles left, one next to the river and two with forests. The river grass could get a farm for an extra food and the two forest tiles cottages.
So yeah, our food situation does suck for a OCC. That means we want to get Sailing and build a Lighthouse sooner rather than later, thats another +2 food for a specialist from the lake and clams. At the moment though we are limited by happiness so need Rep. & Globe before we can grow more anyway.
Good luck Pvblivs, we play 20 turns each from here on. If that is too much later in periods of war or other critical periods we can drop to 10 or 15.
Edit: One more thing, I would run max commerce for research and growing cottages rather than working hammer tiles, as our hammers can come from chopping forests for a while.
Delhi (buddhist holy city) - barbs get 6 happies it looks like
Memphis (jewish holy city)
Monty will be attacking Memphis and Peter attacking Delhi. We probably can't do anything to help Memphis, but we should see if we can try and help defend Delhi. We don't have copper, do we have horses? If so horse archers would be perfect for this, we should try and build some in between some wonders.
Thinking about it a bit more, I would chop another worker maybe even 2 in addition to the one building, so we have 1 improving London and 3 or 4 out chopping and can really build the wonders we need quickly so we can then get on to helping the barbarians. Also I think I would chop Pyramids before Stonehenge/Oracle, so we can revolt to Representation earlier and grow London as at the moment it is stalled on 4 due to the war weariness. After this Globe Theatre is vital, otherwise the war weariness will kill us.
In between all that we need HR for Horse Archer, Iron Working to see if we have Iron for Maces and Sailing for trade routes with any Barb Cities on the coast. Not sure if any of the AIs would give us open borders for coastal trade routes, we'd probably have to gift them some techs first as none of them like us much as we 'declared war on them'. So many choices
Pvblivs said:Already looking forward to having your screenshots, friskymike. I really want to know before I play what is cottaged and what not. It would be good to discuss some...
We don't have a very food-rich city, have we? We might end up building some farms to support at least some scientists. After all we're philosophical...
You are right of course we want to run some scientists to leverage our philosphical leader and get a GS for the academy.
OK, we have netted clams with +2 food above the 2 required to support the working citizen. Pasteurized cows with +1 and camped deer with +2. So thats +5 food. Working a mined plains hill is -1 food leaving us +4 for two specialists and no growth. We have two grass cottages, one on the river and one next to the lake. We have three grass tiles left, one next to the river and two with forests. The river grass could get a farm for an extra food and the two forest tiles cottages.
So yeah, our food situation does suck for a OCC. That means we want to get Sailing and build a Lighthouse sooner rather than later, thats another +2 food for a specialist from the lake and clams. At the moment though we are limited by happiness so need Rep. & Globe before we can grow more anyway.
Good luck Pvblivs, we play 20 turns each from here on. If that is too much later in periods of war or other critical periods we can drop to 10 or 15.
Edit: One more thing, I would run max commerce for research and growing cottages rather than working hammer tiles, as our hammers can come from chopping forests for a while.
Pvblivs
Scriptor
What do you think about our city radius woods? I would chop that near the river because of the commerce it is hiding from our treasures. I even think about chopping those two with grass for more cottaging at no food costs. That leaves us with 4 forests, that is 2 additional health. Is that enough or shall we keep those 2 grassland forests having 3 additional health?
This is turning out to be a very interesting game indeed.
With regard to the food calculations, I believe the mined plains hill is a net -2 food. So we may need to farm an extra grassland early on to get the GS. The other option, of course, is Great Library while cottaging grassland and farming plains. I agree that food will eventually be the issue in growing.
Couple more thoughts on Tech Path. I agree IW should come soon after the slingshot (perhaps Sailing first?). I suspect there is a good chance we have Iron or Horses in our fat cross. After that I propose Lit (for GL)->Drama (for Globe Th.)->Metal Casting (for Forge/Colossus). The colossus will add free commerce and a chance at a Great Merchant which can add food as a super specialist. I would really like to get the Forge going first for the extra hammers, but the unhappiness will be hurting us. OTOH, we will have gold in our borders soon and a forge will give an extra happy face. Lastly, in my experience, early GP are much better than middle-late GP, so National Epic is perhaps a priority too.
Hehe, I think I used all the forests on the map with that list. Any thoughts on priorities, building and tech?
With regard to the food calculations, I believe the mined plains hill is a net -2 food. So we may need to farm an extra grassland early on to get the GS. The other option, of course, is Great Library while cottaging grassland and farming plains. I agree that food will eventually be the issue in growing.
Couple more thoughts on Tech Path. I agree IW should come soon after the slingshot (perhaps Sailing first?). I suspect there is a good chance we have Iron or Horses in our fat cross. After that I propose Lit (for GL)->Drama (for Globe Th.)->Metal Casting (for Forge/Colossus). The colossus will add free commerce and a chance at a Great Merchant which can add food as a super specialist. I would really like to get the Forge going first for the extra hammers, but the unhappiness will be hurting us. OTOH, we will have gold in our borders soon and a forge will give an extra happy face. Lastly, in my experience, early GP are much better than middle-late GP, so National Epic is perhaps a priority too.
Hehe, I think I used all the forests on the map with that list. Any thoughts on priorities, building and tech?
friskymike
Listening to:
Pvblivs: I think cottage the grassland forests, save the 4 plains forests for health and later lumbermills. I don't think we will have health problems, we have deer, cows and clams, and fish are just outside our borders so we will get them with some expansions, harbours to double the seafoods health.
rddc: Yeah you are right with the plains hill, so we definitley need to irrigate some grass by the river and get a lighthouse quickly.
Great Library is nice but a lot of hammers we could be spending on building units to help our teammates. Maybe if we get a Great Engineer. We don't want to get distracted with too many wonders, after the essential ones we should build up a nice force of Maces & Catapults to go help the barbs capture some of Peter's cities. Although GLib would help us get a tech lead quicker... we'll have to evaluate it at the time.
Agree we need Forges, but again Colossus hammers are probably better spent on military. In my test noble game, the barbs build the Colussus
Just a thought, the Incan Insanity AWP OCC shows the strength of suppressing AI growth by pillaging resrouces. We should consider this against Peter before we are ready to fully to take him, just to slow him down and prevent him building good military units.
rddc: Yeah you are right with the plains hill, so we definitley need to irrigate some grass by the river and get a lighthouse quickly.
Great Library is nice but a lot of hammers we could be spending on building units to help our teammates. Maybe if we get a Great Engineer. We don't want to get distracted with too many wonders, after the essential ones we should build up a nice force of Maces & Catapults to go help the barbs capture some of Peter's cities. Although GLib would help us get a tech lead quicker... we'll have to evaluate it at the time.
Agree we need Forges, but again Colossus hammers are probably better spent on military. In my test noble game, the barbs build the Colussus
Just a thought, the Incan Insanity AWP OCC shows the strength of suppressing AI growth by pillaging resrouces. We should consider this against Peter before we are ready to fully to take him, just to slow him down and prevent him building good military units.
JerichoHill
Bedrock of Knowledge
The barbs are already pillaging =)
I don't think we can help Memphis either, but we can get some guys to Delhi and help the Barbarians keep it. We should also do our best to prevent AI expansion between Delhi and us. More room for barbarians to spawn.
Before I realized I was over-running, I was building Stonehenge while chopping Pyramids. Both came in pretty quick.
I am worried about the lack of barb Defence in Delhi, but they are harassing with Axemen right now. For a moment, it really looked like the Barbs would get a few more cities. If they would have just coordinated attacks! Gah...
Stonehenge, Oracle, Pyramids are all we need. GP or GE can get us religion, Wonder, or Barbarian Shrine.
I would prefer we go military otherwise. I think our workers will soon be going west young man
I don't think we can help Memphis either, but we can get some guys to Delhi and help the Barbarians keep it. We should also do our best to prevent AI expansion between Delhi and us. More room for barbarians to spawn.
Before I realized I was over-running, I was building Stonehenge while chopping Pyramids. Both came in pretty quick.
I am worried about the lack of barb Defence in Delhi, but they are harassing with Axemen right now. For a moment, it really looked like the Barbs would get a few more cities. If they would have just coordinated attacks! Gah...
Stonehenge, Oracle, Pyramids are all we need. GP or GE can get us religion, Wonder, or Barbarian Shrine.
I would prefer we go military otherwise. I think our workers will soon be going west young man
Pvblivs
Scriptor
Save
980 BC (1):
Worker comes in, commanding him to chop. Pyramid started next.
900 BC (5):
Learned Priesthood. Writing is next to be researched
840 BC (8):
London grows to size 5 and now has -2 happy faces because of war weariness. This is really hitting us hard. When Pyramides come we'll revolt immediately.
740 BC (13):
Finish Pyramids, revolt to Representation and Slavery. Stonehenge is next.
660 BC (17):
London grows to size 6, WW is now producing 3 unhappy, again throwing London into unrest.
640 BC (18):
Writing comes in, go for CoL. We whip Stonehenge for 3 pop at London, that will grow to 4 in 2 turns again.
620 BC (19):
Stonhenge is here. A Library will be built next. I think it will be good if chops go into the Library. Oracle could be afterwards but should not be built before CoL is there for the CS slingshot.
Some screenshots
Note that we have a warrior in Russia that may be used to harrass them, that is slow down the progress the can make by pillaging and just walking around in their borders.
Behold London from the outer...
...and from the inner.
Delhi is developed rapidly by our beloved friends.
Workers just everywhere...
Memphis is still there, but we did not make any progress in taking cities. I hope my set of turns brought us forward a little
980 BC (1):
Worker comes in, commanding him to chop. Pyramid started next.
900 BC (5):
Learned Priesthood. Writing is next to be researched
840 BC (8):
London grows to size 5 and now has -2 happy faces because of war weariness. This is really hitting us hard. When Pyramides come we'll revolt immediately.
740 BC (13):
Finish Pyramids, revolt to Representation and Slavery. Stonehenge is next.
660 BC (17):
London grows to size 6, WW is now producing 3 unhappy, again throwing London into unrest.
640 BC (18):
Writing comes in, go for CoL. We whip Stonehenge for 3 pop at London, that will grow to 4 in 2 turns again.
620 BC (19):
Stonhenge is here. A Library will be built next. I think it will be good if chops go into the Library. Oracle could be afterwards but should not be built before CoL is there for the CS slingshot.
Some screenshots
Note that we have a warrior in Russia that may be used to harrass them, that is slow down the progress the can make by pillaging and just walking around in their borders.
Behold London from the outer...
...and from the inner.
Delhi is developed rapidly by our beloved friends.
Workers just everywhere...
Memphis is still there, but we did not make any progress in taking cities. I hope my set of turns brought us forward a little
