For the Horde!

[Vehem]

Slight change to the Clan Worldspell:

• When cast, all orc barbarian units convert to Clan control (previously was only 50%)
• All converts gain the "For the Horde" promotion
• For the Horde promotion grants Hidden Nationality and free unit support - but also a 5% chance per turn to go barbarian.
• A spell (requiring For the Horde promotion) allows the player to pay gold to remove the promotion and permanently gain the unit.

The overall effect - all barbarian orcs rally to your call, but slowly start to lose interest over the following turns unless you pay to keep them. All of these orcs can attack your enemies freely however.

An emergent side effect - as the units are hidden nationality, they are valid targets for the units that turn back to being Barbarians. This means that your horde doesn't just fizzle out - it will turn on itself as the orcs battle to usurp control of the horde. Not an intentional effect - but I like it

===

In truth, only 95% of orcs actually convert to you, as the 5% chance to convert back to Barbarian is checked immediately upon gaining the promotion (as is always the case). Again - this is fairly flavourful, with a few hardliners ignoring your call.

===

The rationale behind the change is that when people use the spell, they are forced to disband most of the gained units due to maintenance costs. The normal converts tend to be scattered and unable to do much for the Clan other than meet other nations.

With the changes, the units can be used to freely smack around those others nations a little and don't cost a thing to support. You don't get to keep them for long (unless you choose to pay) but you get more of them for the short time you do have them.

 

[GeeJo]

Does this include Orthus? And while I'm sure I know the answer, does it include units belonging to a second Clan player?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

sounds like a very good change that will make the spell more reliable. won't it make the barbs VERY weak & vulnerable right after it is cast though?

 

[xienwolf]

Only on that turn. Next turn 25% of the maximum allowed Barbarians will automatically spawn.

 

[FireBlaze]

This reminds me of the time I set up a overseas empire around turn 100 from using the spell. Good times, bad economy.

Anyways, this sounds like a good change to spell. But with HN units, can you still meet other nations with them?

 

[Sarisin]

I think the problem with this spell for the AI is that they always seem to cast it the first or second turn when there are not many barbs on the map. If they waited until the main force arrived, it would be something.

It is a boon for the human player who selected the Barbarian Lands option though as barb cities are left without defenders and you can waltz right in. On slower game speeds it takes a while for even a barb city to build a new defender.

I'm guessing the change will not affect this much.

Also, in addition to Orthus, what about Acheron, Mokka, etc. if they are in the game?

 

[xienwolf]

A unit must have Orc promotion and not hero promotion. So no frostlings at all will convert, and Orthus will not either.

And HN units can establish contact with other civs.

 

[Vehem]

Does this include Orthus? And while I'm sure I know the answer, does it include units belonging to a second Clan player?

A unit must have Orc promotion and not hero promotion. So no frostlings at all will convert, and Orthus will not either.

And HN units can establish contact with other civs.

Pretty much what Xien said. It would be nice if HN didn't contact, but that's a tweak for later on maybe. The change only effects the same units that the old spell did - the only restriction removed is the one that made it a 50% chance rather than all units.

Basically that means Barbarian, Orcish, Non-Hero.

 

[notque]

It would be nice if HN didn't contact

I agree. HN units shouldn't be able to make contact for your civilization, since they're not technically tied to your civ in the eyes of others.

Any chance that will be removed soon?

 

[ushram]

Slight change to the Clan Worldspell:

• When cast, all orc barbarian units convert to Clan control (previously was only 50%)
• All converts gain the "For the Horde" promotion
• For the Horde promotion grants Hidden Nationality and free unit support - but also a 5% chance per turn to go barbarian.
• A spell (requiring For the Horde promotion) allows the player to pay gold to remove the promotion and permanently gain the unit.

The overall effect - all barbarian orcs rally to your call, but slowly start to lose interest over the following turns unless you pay to keep them. All of these orcs can attack your enemies freely however.

An emergent side effect - as the units are hidden nationality, they are valid targets for the units that turn back to being Barbarians. This means that your horde doesn't just fizzle out - it will turn on itself as the orcs battle to usurp control of the horde. Not an intentional effect - but I like it

===

In truth, only 95% of orcs actually convert to you, as the 5% chance to convert back to Barbarian is checked immediately upon gaining the promotion (as is always the case). Again - this is fairly flavourful, with a few hardliners ignoring your call.

===

The rationale behind the change is that when people use the spell, they are forced to disband most of the gained units due to maintenance costs. The normal converts tend to be scattered and unable to do much for the Clan other than meet other nations.

With the changes, the units can be used to freely smack around those others nations a little and don't cost a thing to support. You don't get to keep them for long (unless you choose to pay) but you get more of them for the short time you do have them.

sounds like a great idea Vehem, a much needed tweak to that world spell.

 

[MaxAstro]

I think one other needed change to the spell is the AI logic: Currently the AI casts it based on the total number of barbarian units, counting animals, skeletons, lizardmen, sea animals, etc. That's why the AI casts it so soon.

The logic can be quite easily changed to cast based on the number of barbarian ORC units, so it won't be cast until it's actually useful.

That said, I love the change to the spell. Very thematic, and much more useful than it was.

 

[xienwolf]

I agree. HN units shouldn't be able to make contact for your civilization, since they're not technically tied to your civ in the eyes of others.

Any chance that will be removed soon?

This is not completely possible. Once you make a tile visible, all the game knows is that you (the player) can see that plot. It does not know which unit was responsible for letting you see the plot.


So the best that can be done is to make it so that an HN unit will not cause diplomatic contact when encountering other units. But as soon as it can see an OWNED TILE, then contact will be made (same happens with invisible units already). There is no practical way to avoid this.

EDIT: This also means that it works 1 way only. If the other unit is visible and non-HN, as soon as THEY move, they are moving into a tile that you can see (with your invisible/HN unit) and thus you will contact them.

 

[RogueThunder]

Could you make it ignore Scorpion Clan Goblin Archers. They're a bit... yeah...

Cus, getting ALL of those early game could bea bit...


Otherwise, quite awesome. Should be a bit more reliably usefull...



Now if something could only be done with the Kuriotate's Legends...

 

[notque]

This is not completely possible. Once you make a tile visible, all the game knows is that you (the player) can see that plot. It does not know which unit was responsible for letting you see the plot.


So the best that can be done is to make it so that an HN unit will not cause diplomatic contact when encountering other units. But as soon as it can see an OWNED TILE, then contact will be made (same happens with invisible units already). There is no practical way to avoid this.

EDIT: This also means that it works 1 way only. If the other unit is visible and non-HN, as soon as THEY move, they are moving into a tile that you can see (with your invisible/HN unit) and thus you will contact them.

Makes sense, thanks.

 

[Arctic Circle]

Could you make it ignore Scorpion Clan Goblin Archers. They're a bit... yeah...

Cus, getting ALL of those early game could bea bit...


Otherwise, quite awesome. Should be a bit more reliably usefull...



Now if something could only be done with the Kuriotate's Legends...

Yeah, Legends could have a small chance per 'real city' to pop a great bard or a hero of some sort or something.

 

[zup]

Hero popping is for Grigori. But Legends could use some help.

 

[RogueThunder]

Quite.

Perhaps have it just have a spawn % for a common current tier unit on each city/settlement. And a chance for them to have courage, loyalty and/or valor.
If there was some kind of mini-great person. It'd be cool as a possible unit too. Actual GP mgiht be a bit much. (Infact I'm fairly sure it would be) But maybe a unit that can suttle as a free NORMAL specialist, or pop for ~1/4th as many beakers as a GP. And so on as appopriate. But not built altar/such of course.

 

[Castar]

Perhaps a chance per city that a unit in that city gains the Legendary promotion, which would be like Mutated, but only (certain?) benefical effects? Or just a chance per unit, but that might be a bit insane.