I will build forts at choke points to defend against Ai assaults. If you can restrict there move ments to one or two tile it helps a lot. They don't clear forrest of jungle either. I clear any vegitation on the AI side for a killing filed the fortify a couple axemen and a couple spearmen. GuerillaII LB's in a fort on a forested hill are harder to kill than CGII LB's in a hill city behind walls. because cats/trebs can'y take down the defenses of forests or forts. And CR promotions are worthless. They have nearly 16.5strength. And unpromoted spears are strength 12 vs mounted.
Forts
- Thread starter Kunlun
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obsolete
Deity
You can use forts as an exploit to stockpile air-ships when your cities have hit their 4-max cap 
Anyhow, of all the silly things Firaxis has done since Vanilla, they really deserve congrats for fixing the fort issue. These things were so terrible back then, you'd have to pay someone to make one. They sure have gone a long way since then.
Anyhow, of all the silly things Firaxis has done since Vanilla, they really deserve congrats for fixing the fort issue. These things were so terrible back then, you'd have to pay someone to make one. They sure have gone a long way since then.
I've had quite a few cases where a fort was needed to get my boats into/out of an enclosed space.
In one case I actually had the bulk of my navy trapped in a narrow channel between myself and a civ I had just declared peace with. My erstwhile enemy's cultural borders expanded at just the wrong moment, blocking off the open end of the channel, and I had no other way of getting my boats out without declaring war (which, for diplomatic reasons, I really didn't want to do).
So, while they're not useful that often, in some situations canal forts can make a big difference.
Puzzlemaker
Chieftain
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- Dec 19, 2007
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In fractal maps there are often weird patters/chokepoints where forts are helpful. Also, I have used forts in combat before; got a bunch of workers in my stack, moved my army on an enemy hill, and quick-built a fort. He rammed his army against mine, failed to do any damage, and then I took his city.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
A question about forts are a choke point. Assume it's either forrested or hilled, or both. Is it better to build a fort (I know it still retains the forrest benefit) or leave the terrain as it is?
I assumed it best to build but not so sure. Yes you can man the fort with CG troops but then you are also susceptible to CR troops (and usually they are plentiful). CG and CR just cancel each other out, but if you go up the guerilla or woodsman line, those promotions aty in the calculation while CR from the enemy become insignificant. I ran into this on a OCC game.
I assumed it best to build but not so sure. Yes you can man the fort with CG troops but then you are also susceptible to CR troops (and usually they are plentiful). CG and CR just cancel each other out, but if you go up the guerilla or woodsman line, those promotions aty in the calculation while CR from the enemy become insignificant. I ran into this on a OCC game.
Puzzlemaker
Chieftain
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Forts don't replace the forests and stuff in BtS, if I remember correctly. A fort on a hill with a forest gives you a huge defensive bonus. I had one of those once, it was quite fun.
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
But the fort opens up attack from CR promoted units. A city will get cultural defense, walll, castles etc.... A fort gets +25%, good but more than offset by a CRII unit. Without the fort the CRII promotions are useless.
A couple of questions:
1. Someone said that you can get resources by building a fort on a site, and to do this outside of the BFC. Can this get you resources before the tech required to work them is discovered? I'm thinking the happiness resources like dyes and wine. I don't have a tech tree in front of me, so sorry if the tech for forts always comes after calendar and monarchy.
2. Can forts give you resources outside of your cultural boundries? If not, is there any replacement for Civ3's mostly worthless colonies that did so?
1. Someone said that you can get resources by building a fort on a site, and to do this outside of the BFC. Can this get you resources before the tech required to work them is discovered? I'm thinking the happiness resources like dyes and wine. I don't have a tech tree in front of me, so sorry if the tech for forts always comes after calendar and monarchy.
2. Can forts give you resources outside of your cultural boundries? If not, is there any replacement for Civ3's mostly worthless colonies that did so?
madscientist
RPC Supergenius
The fort will give you the resource only if it is in your cultural borders and you have the tech. Building a fort on dye would get you the dye resoruce the turn you tech calender. It's like building a city on an oil well, you still need combustion to access the oil.
obsolete
Deity
I used to exploit this all the times with Romans. I'd take my CRIII pratoreans, and move them out of a weak bordering city when an attacking army would come my way. Then when they entered the city, they'd have 0 culture because it was in disorder. Then I hit them with the CRIII Pratorians and obliterate them (they'd have no city protection, no culture def, and no fortification), taking the city back at the same time.
I guess fixing that thing would be too messy, but it does seem also very strange how by building a fort, you are putting yourself at a more of a disadvantage when defending, when the whole point was to increase your defense!
Cool. Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure about things like dye vs. oil, since dye is always visible.
popejubal
Emperor
...and this is a great way to get oil online immediately when you discover combustion.
It will take about a zillion turns to build an oil well (or it seems to at least). If you had already built a fort there several turns earlier, then you'll get the Oil as soon as you discover the combustion tech. That eliminates at least 2 turns of waiting and gets you transports, tanks and other toys that many turns earlier than you would have otherwise.
It will take about a zillion turns to build an oil well (or it seems to at least). If you had already built a fort there several turns earlier, then you'll get the Oil as soon as you discover the combustion tech. That eliminates at least 2 turns of waiting and gets you transports, tanks and other toys that many turns earlier than you would have otherwise.
VoiceOfUnreason
Deity
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The Grumpy Old Men found that you could achieve some interesting results by using forts to manipulate the AI routing routines. I've been trying some always war games on highlands, and it seems to me that you can still (3.13) get similar behavior.
Puzzlemaker
Chieftain
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Chipacabra
Chieftain
You don't need a single space chokepoint to get a positional advantage with a fort. Any time the enemy can only come at you from one direction, space out a couple forts in the area. You don't need to block off the route, what you want is to force any approaching army to walk NEXT to a fort. A few CG and siege units in each fort can weaken the approaching army before it gets to your cities, and if you planned properly you can get your SOD in the area to mop them up. The idea is you want to force the enemy to stay in open terrain where you can tear them apart. It's situational, sure, but it can be useful.
Well, look at this this way. After cats and other seige units come into play walls and castles are pretty much gone. and cultural defenses get bombarded away as well. But the 50% from the forest on the hill remains. That counters the CR2 which is 45%.
And more inportantly. It buys you a little whipping time for extra defenders. Especially if you are not running slavery at the time. They cannot declare war on your borders and move in that turn. Which leaves them one turn from your city. Not enough time to get through the anarchy and then whip units. The Ai will have damaged units it will heal. Especially if it used seige units to soften the fort stack. In somecases the fort can force them to attack across a river unlike a city where they can cross then attack from a different direction.
vicawoo
Chieftain
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- Feb 12, 2007
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Pre-BTS it killed forests. But if it keeps forests, that's +75%, which is the same as city raider 3. Maybe it's better to fight at a fort than a city, if they have seige.
I've tried the move your units out of cities trick, but sometimes they raze it. Still, I could see using a fort trick on an otherwise undefended tile against an invading army.
Can you chain link forts to get to lakes?
I've tried the move your units out of cities trick, but sometimes they raze it. Still, I could see using a fort trick on an otherwise undefended tile against an invading army.
Can you chain link forts to get to lakes?
I disagree. Cats and Trebs do not do well against walls and castles as there is a -75% bombardment penalty. In theory it takes 50 turns for an ordinary catapult to reduce the defences (actually they are recovering meanwhile so it takes longer) to zero. A big stack of siege equipment is needed to reduce castle defences in a turn or two and attacking against a 100% defence is suicidal if the defenders are decent. It is only when cannons become available that castles are vulnerable to siege equipment as gunpowder weapons ignore the bombardment penalty. Prior to getting cannons, I like to use spies against castles as the revolt reduces defences for a turn and it saves a lot of time. Then my trebs just get the CR prootions and are used to soften the defenders.
You mean to move naval units into lakes? Then yes you can, but each fort must have an adjacent coastal tile or lake tile for the naval units to be able to move through them. I have have had some quite tortuous "canals" built with forts.
I find forts very useful for hiding and healing naval units when the enemy has a superior navy. They act just like a city for healing and the enemy naval unit can't attack a fort or the units inside. They are also very useful for basing airships to support my navy. The airships damage the enemy frigates and my own frigates get a very high chance of victory rather than the more even odds without their help.
Minor Annoyance
Deity
At most you can cross three land tiles with a boat, but it has to be fort, city, fort to do it.
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