Shadow Game - Is this just a map *I* can not beat?

[Henrik75]

why? because you can. its immortal. i get bored of going cannons the for 8136th time

 

[Snowbird]

I think you will struggle AP wise. Aztecs won't talk to you so no way to gift them a city. Unless they capture a Christian city?


How do you fix a furious Monty? Trading with worst enemies was a mistake. He may eventually talk to you. Open borders would only happen if you were in a shared war with another AI. Assuming he will talk to you after that?

Put the missionary in the caravel. Put caravel into his territory - no need for open borders. Gift missionary - no need for talking.

I think that strategy still works in the latest versions.

 

[Gumbolt]

Not sure that works. Tried it before. Plus he refuses to talk. Otherwise AP would be much easier.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

why? because you can. its immortal. i get bored of going cannons the for 8136th time

We could try airships and curaissers?

 

[Snowbird]

Not sure that works. Tried it before. Plus he refuses to talk. Otherwise AP would be much easier.

Not sure what talking could be useful in this case. Another version was gifting caravel with missionary in it. Once the caravel gets into town you can use the missionary.

IIRc, the issue was getting caravel in town. It had to be either upgraded from galley, or injured... or both. Not really a cheese specialist.

Of course one can always do a well timed DOW, capture town, install religion and allow recapture. No talking and no fancy stuff needed.

 

[Build2Much]

My 3 GS thing definitely works, glad I practiced that because for this capital I think that could be very strong if used properly. I could hit Optics around 200AD in the run I just did, but needed to slow down at the end of my teching because I couldn’t get the boats out.

I used @Henrik75 city placements from his map to put the east and west cities off the coast which left me with only one ship building city south of Carthage. I agree that the east and west cities are better, no question, but I didn’t figure out how he got the boats out, at least not combined with getting 3 GS out. If you recorded your play I’ll definitely want to see what you did there - I’m assuming it is upgrade triremes, but my timing was off.

Edit: also my barb busting is definitely improving. Only needed 1 chariot that I maybe didn’t really need and no barb cities this time.

 

[Build2Much]

We could try airships and curaissers?

It is definitely possible some of the time on this map to lib scientific method > communism > physics, but then you have to backtrack to Cuirs (or at least that’s how it worked in my case).

 

[gavenkoa]

- I’m assuming it is upgrade triremes,

That should be it. Built in advance and upgrade later.

 

[gavenkoa]

Put the missionary in the caravel. Put caravel into his territory - no need for open borders. Gift missionary - no need for talking.

I'm not sure caravel could enter the closed border...

Another version was gifting caravel with missionary in it.

Gifting requires a unit enters a country... But without open border seems the only option is:

Of course one can always do a well timed DOW, capture town, install religion and allow recapture. No talking and no fancy stuff needed.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

It is definitely possible some of the time on this map to lib scientific method > communism > physics, but then you have to backtrack to Cuirs (or at least that’s how it worked in my case).

Nono, this is only in response to Henrik that wanted to do something different just because. This is not optimal. For practice, just stick to the standard options.

Curaissers are not really a "backtrack". By the time you reach physics, the techs for curaissers can be traded.

Another off-the-track option is liberalism for astronomy. I don't like it because there are zero happing resources and the unique building factor.

 

[bigbamboo]

@Build2Much​

Hello OP, I’m new to this forum but a seasoned Civilization IV player from China. Back home, we usually have a real-time discussion group dedicated to Civ 4. We mostly focus on Deity Pangaea map types, with some occasional play on Fractured Continents, and we always play in no-SL mode. At Deity difficulty, we’ve developed a set of reliable strategies to improve win rates on random maps. If time permits, I’d love to join the discussion in this thread about this map type. Looking forward to some great conversations—happy gaming!​

 

[drewisfat]

What is no-SL mode?

 

[bigbamboo]

What is no-SL mode?

No reloading from saves to alter game outcomes, of course, normal saving and loading—like when your PC freezes or crashes during a turn—is allowed. That said, not all game modes strictly enforce no-SL rules; this is primarily limited to prize-based competitions

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

A new thread is needed for bigbamboo. A thread dedicated to translation and sharing of links and sources.

Clarification to non-Chinese speakers. The bold font and ALL CAPS is typical of Chinese trying to type in English. They are switching between keyboard modes, Chinese typing and alphabet typing.

I watched some Chinese videos on Civ4, mostly Bilibili. They seem to use more siege and less horses. They don't do archery.

I hope some of them find ways to watch Lain videos.

 

[bigbamboo]

I’m both surprised and delighted to see that this friend has actually watched some Civilization IV videos on Bilibili, as this installment has become quite niche in China, with most players being over 35 years old—some even in their 50s, true gentlemen of the game. However, we usually only discuss strategies in online groups, similar to your Hotmail groups, but we use QQ groups. These groups are where the real exchange of ideas happens; what you see on video platforms is just the tip of the iceberg. One of our veteran players summarized a set of strategies for consistently beating Deity difficulty on Pangaea maps over a decade ago, and it’s become something of a mantra in our community."

"The bold text highlights the challenge of writing naturally in English for non-native speakers. While understanding written English might be straightforward, organizing thoughts and expressing them fluently—without sounding robotic—is a significant hurdle. For example, the classic 'How are you? I’m fine, thank you, and you?' might be easy to understand, but crafting natural, nuanced sentences like a native speaker is a whole different ball game

 

[bigbamboo]

It is
"Alright, listen up, you civilization junkies!
Six cities, that’s your sweet spot—no more, no less.
Nine tiles around, grab those resources like you’re robbing a bank.
Workers? Chop those trees like you’re clearing a path for a heist.
Buildings? Nah, screw that. Kill first, ask questions later.

Wonders? Oh, you mean those shiny traps that waste your time?
Forget ‘em. Build an army, then unleash the Catapults.
Boom! Teach those punks a lesson they won’t forget.

Early Great Scientists? Yeah, get ‘em. Philosophy’s your golden ticket.
Trade those techs like you’re hustling on the black market.
Stay ahead, stay sharp, and dominate the map like a boss.

Civilization ain’t a game—it’s a war.
And you? You’re the general, the strategist, the goddamn king.
Now go out there and make history, one turn at a time."

 

[bigbamboo]

In the years that followed, by adhering to this strategy—which we named the 'Catapult Rush' (though it has fast, medium, and slow variants; if you’ve read The Art of War, you’ll know that a strategy often has upper, middle, and lower approaches)—the core members achieved a Deity win rate of over 50% on random, non-handpicked maps. In no-SL mode, the win rate was around 20%, with about 20 players consistently participating. We’ve also found that new players who join us can go from beginners to beating Deity difficulty in just six months. Later, we developed the 'Horse Archer Rush,' which has a slightly lower floor but an incredibly high ceiling. This includes variations like the 3-City Fast Horse Archer, 4-City Slow Horse Archer, and even the 'Horse Archer Farming' strategy (where you prioritize Horse Archers first, then go for Writing to stabilize defense against early declarations of war, while also being ready to join neighboring wars and quickly mass-produce Horse Archers for decisive victories). Beyond that, we’ve also refined other tactical systems, like the 'Catapult Spam' strategy. There’s a lot more to discuss, and I’d be happy to share more details if we get the chance!

 

[drewisfat]

I don't lose pangaeas so tell me more about this prize money and will this be affected by the tariffs!?

In all seriousness, it's cool that an isolated community independently developed some of the same strategies. Thanks for reaching out despite the language barrier. No mention of liberalism -> military tradition for cuirassiers though, which I'd say is by far our main meta for pangaeas where you can settle 6+ cities.

They seem to use more siege and less horses. They don't do archery.

I'd hope they don't combine siege and horses. What's the deal with archery? I assume sylvan means not using it against barbs, or do you just not think it helps defending against AI attacks?

The veterans here play no huts, no events or no "Tribal Villages" and no "Random Events". Have you adopted this too?

Definitely need a mod to do mod things with this thread now. I'm not done interrogating the enemy making new friends.

 

[Snowbird]

What's the deal with archery?

Well, if maps are only Pangea and 50% winrate with reloads is an achievement... surely why one need archery at all.

 

[bigbamboo]

I think sylvanllewelyn might have seen some videos on Bilibili, but as I mentioned before, those are just the tip of the iceberg. Even the 'Catapult Rush' strategy is like a prototype—yes, you probably understand what I mean by 'prototype.' The core idea of this strategy is to leverage early development: by around Turn 95, you trade for niche techs like Horseback Riding or Aesthetics from the AI to secure Alphabet and Mathematics, then research Construction by around Turn 100. At this point, all cities switch from high-population growth to Slavery-driven production, churning out Catapults while using overflow hammers to build supplementary units like Swordsmen, Axemen, or Spearmen. Meanwhile, all Workers start chopping forests. Within about 10 turns, you can assemble an army of 30–35 units, which is enough to take down one or two AI players on Deity difficulty, allowing you to extort techs and gold, and then snowball into a full conquest. In short, it’s about hitting a critical timing around Turn 110, much like in competitive games. The later 'Horse Archer Rush' strategy is even more refined, embodying the essence of The Art of War. It requires more attention to detail and scouting, focusing on how to use localized superior forces to divide the battlefield and achieve a 'snake swallowing an elephant' effect. Additionally, we play with no Tribal Villages, no Random Events, and no World Builder—these three settings have been standard in our group for at least 15 years, as far as I can remember.

The Liberalism-Cuirassier strategy you mentioned has also been discussed in our community. We concluded that the latest viable timing for a successful push is the 'Trebuchet Rush.' Even then, it can still spiral out of control—for example, if certain AI players declare war or vassalize others, leading to unpredictable outcomes. Generally, the later the timing of your strategy, the greater the risk, though early strategies also come with their own risks. That’s why we believe the 'Catapult Rush' strikes the perfect balance. It might not be the fastest way to achieve victory in terms of turn count, but for any strategy that aims to win after Turn 120, the 'Catapult Rush' can achieve the same result. As I’ve said before, it’s a prototype—whether it can break open the game depends entirely on how well you’ve developed within the first 100 turns