I don't know when barbs start becoming an issue on Monarch, but I think it has to be AH or Hunt-Arch before Pott. That fish in 2nd ring in your 2nd city mark kind of makes me want to rethink and maybe settle it in 1st ring? That opens up another spot in between, not sure where. If researching AH next, maybe not, fish can wait Library then.
Forum Game - mastering Monarch
- Thread starter Arcanior
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GLH is one if not the most powerful wonder in the game on certain maps. This is one of those maps. So, yes, I would prioritize it. It's Monarch level, so you generally have some time so as not to have to sacrifice key strat techs, or even writing for that matter. (on higher levels you generally have to prioritize it far sooner)
I might avoid AH here, if possible, and go Pot>Writing>Sailing>Masonry after BW (not sure what copper revealed). If no copper in reasonable settling range, just try fog busting as best as possible with warriors. Archery could be a last resort, although I hate to tech it. (POT is cheaper especially with bonuses from ag/tw)
I like Dubioza's dotmap. Very much what I had in mind seeing the start. In fact, I might settle the city to the SE first. Instant trade route and able to do stuff immediately.
(note: I would want to clear the fog due east though)
I would focus on settling pretty much everything coastal. You have plenty of spots it seems. A nice inner Bureau cap is good to get but not always feasible on this map, and with GLH you don't really need to worry about cottages much, and you still get the bureau bonus. Those FPs down south might over something interesting.
Another tip is to unfog coast toward the AIs. You want those foreign trade routes asap after Writing, and especially when GLH comes in. On these types of watery maps, an extra work boat makes an excellent scout for clearing coast and finding AI borders..and beyond.
Lastly, the landmass above is not connected. Cities there give a boost to trade routes both internally and foreign. I would settle 3 or 4 key cities on your landmass and then focus on getting a city up there. (ofc, you may need a beefy unit to protect the area.) edit: oh that is the end of the map..just a warrior up there and to the E should keep it clear. Probably 2 cities at least. I'm sure there are other islands to settle too. I would settle with clams in first ring..may be another city option to the E of there as well in the fog.
edit again: Completely missed your last report. You may be able to sufficiently spawnbust the main area. The problems could come later from the SW.
City marked City2 looks great...beauro potential while still being coastal. If you go AH, I'd probably settle that first. If pottery, settle spot to east first.
Roads are slowing you up. Granted there may have been some turns there waiting for BW, but you could have a mine at least, then get to chopping.
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Yep, lymond is (probably) usually correct 
Don't know when GLH goes on Monarch either, seing that you can settle lots of coastal cities, you don't want to lose it. So 2nd city, Sailing, build lighthouse, Masonry, build GLH. Probably aim for 2pop whip LH into GLH with good OF and few chops. Maybe even another whip into it later on (worker or settler). Few more warriors for barb defence asap then?
Don't know when GLH goes on Monarch either, seing that you can settle lots of coastal cities, you don't want to lose it. So 2nd city, Sailing, build lighthouse, Masonry, build GLH. Probably aim for 2pop whip LH into GLH with good OF and few chops. Maybe even another whip into it later on (worker or settler). Few more warriors for barb defence asap then?
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All those roads have delayed you a bit. From another thread:
This game is not isolated, but actually lower difficulty levels have a lot in common with deity isolated - you can't count on the AI helping you much.
If you don't know who this guy is, he is someone beating deity with a very high frequency. Watching some of his opening play might be very useful for you. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBiPHqnZ3mwIqtraltox6jg
AH next, chop all capital forest asap IMO (this means also getting GLH somewhere else than capital). You have many decent city sites and on monarch maintenance isn't high so you can just settle 5-6 cities as fast as you can.
This game is not isolated, but actually lower difficulty levels have a lot in common with deity isolated - you can't count on the AI helping you much.
If you don't know who this guy is, he is someone beating deity with a very high frequency. Watching some of his opening play might be very useful for you. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBiPHqnZ3mwIqtraltox6jg
AH next, chop all capital forest asap IMO (this means also getting GLH somewhere else than capital). You have many decent city sites and on monarch maintenance isn't high so you can just settle 5-6 cities as fast as you can.
T30: Animal Husbandry it is. Maybe we'll even get horses...
T31: Our Worker finishes chopping. We'll have a WB in two turns, and Babylon will grow in 3. That means I can move my Worker onto a forest, start chopping, and the chop will complete just as we start building the Settler.
T32: A lot of desert to the SE. It appears our landmass does loop south to meet Peter's eventually, though, so I'm glad I didn't postpone AH for Sailing just yet. (Trade routes are more valuable if your partner is on another landmass, right?)
T33: Our Work Boat finishes and I move it to the fish. Our Worker starts chopping. Also: COPPER!
It'll probably go to Peter, though...
T34: Babylon grows to 4pop and I switch production to a Settler. I build Fishing Boats on the fish.
T35: First chop finishes. Next turn my settler will be at 44/100, which means I can whip. Hurrah! Also, my SE warrior valiantly vanquished the Lion while hiding in the forested hills.
T36: I whip my Settler and my SW warrior, fortified in a forest, also kills the Lion. Next turn I will have to definitely decide where to settle. I'm leaning towards City2, though. My Worker can already move there this turn and start building a road to connect it, and once I settle, start pasturing the pigs.
What is my next build? I'm thinking another WB, as I think I have enough Warriors now. Or should I get another Warrior for fogbusting in the east while I let my Warrior that's currently there explore further?
T31: Our Worker finishes chopping. We'll have a WB in two turns, and Babylon will grow in 3. That means I can move my Worker onto a forest, start chopping, and the chop will complete just as we start building the Settler.
T32: A lot of desert to the SE. It appears our landmass does loop south to meet Peter's eventually, though, so I'm glad I didn't postpone AH for Sailing just yet. (Trade routes are more valuable if your partner is on another landmass, right?)
T33: Our Work Boat finishes and I move it to the fish. Our Worker starts chopping. Also: COPPER!
Spoiler copper :
T34: Babylon grows to 4pop and I switch production to a Settler. I build Fishing Boats on the fish.
T35: First chop finishes. Next turn my settler will be at 44/100, which means I can whip. Hurrah! Also, my SE warrior valiantly vanquished the Lion while hiding in the forested hills.
T36: I whip my Settler and my SW warrior, fortified in a forest, also kills the Lion. Next turn I will have to definitely decide where to settle. I'm leaning towards City2, though. My Worker can already move there this turn and start building a road to connect it, and once I settle, start pasturing the pigs.
What is my next build? I'm thinking another WB, as I think I have enough Warriors now. Or should I get another Warrior for fogbusting in the east while I let my Warrior that's currently there explore further?
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Whip the first Workboat..really need that out now. OF into next WB withchop or go ahead with first settler. (net fish first, ofc)
Coastal start can be slower so you need to find ways to speed it up. First settler should be out really.
I would start pulling Warriors back to spawnbust positions...a wb later can do the coastal scouting.
yes, you should wait for advice before playing..that is the whole point of this right?
By the way, you don't need a warrior in your cap this early..it can spawnbust.
Based on seeing City 2 spot now, I think AH was a good call so this city can be productive. I would probably go Writing next and then Sailing/Masonry. Or Sailing>Writing>Masonry to start LH.
The question though, as Sampsa pointed out is where to build GLH. Pigs city could probably do it. Babylon forest chops will be to get out more settlers and workers and stuff.
Yep, looking back at the old screenshot. Pigs city can definitely be your GLH city. Some forest around (although not all in first ring). (you will need a road to the city to get routes)
If you want to replay, which is quite fine for learning, I would go back and whip the workboat into another wb or settler. Probably settler as you really don't need the clams yet with wheat/fish. Then chop out settler.
Coastal start can be slower so you need to find ways to speed it up. First settler should be out really.
I would start pulling Warriors back to spawnbust positions...a wb later can do the coastal scouting.
yes, you should wait for advice before playing..that is the whole point of this right?
By the way, you don't need a warrior in your cap this early..it can spawnbust.
Based on seeing City 2 spot now, I think AH was a good call so this city can be productive. I would probably go Writing next and then Sailing/Masonry. Or Sailing>Writing>Masonry to start LH.
The question though, as Sampsa pointed out is where to build GLH. Pigs city could probably do it. Babylon forest chops will be to get out more settlers and workers and stuff.
Yep, looking back at the old screenshot. Pigs city can definitely be your GLH city. Some forest around (although not all in first ring). (you will need a road to the city to get routes)
If you want to replay, which is quite fine for learning, I would go back and whip the workboat into another wb or settler. Probably settler as you really don't need the clams yet with wheat/fish. Then chop out settler.
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I agree with settling as early as possible (and as much as your economy allows), 3 cities before T50 is a must imo (I aim before T45 whenever possible on Imm), and I agree mostly with sampsa's quote, except I like to connect my cities before settling them. So I'd move that up on the list, swap it with farming, especially because first few cities are going to be settled very close, so you need only few of them. Especially if road would speed up a settler. And roads help defending them, put a unit on the road between them and 1 unit can guard 2 cities.
I don't think you have to reload, eventhough at least 1wb should've been out faster. I'd chop or whip it, probably OF into another one.
I can't compare which strategy would be best without playing, that's why I wasn't sure which city to settle as 2nd spot. I said fish, it'd still be decent even for building GLH there (4 grasshill mines). So, chopping into settlers/workers would still be possible in capital (grasslands) and leave grasshills to be chopped for GLH. Building it in pig city also works, but it's further away and would take longer to develop (already improved fish). Both of these strategies are probably better than building it in capital, for reasons explained above. I think even getting granary before LH/GLH should work even better, especially on monarch - and would be fastest in fish city. I think So I think I'd settle fish 2nd and pig 3rd, but there's nothing wrong with going for pig as 2nd.
There's nothing wrong with settling 4S of capital, you can still settle smtg like this further S, E. 1st ring Pig before other one, depends if Peter goes for them. With GLH you want to settle as many as you can, they don't need to have food specials or can share them (micro intensive). 1 lake tile and few grassland farms are all you need, really. Set them up with granaries, they still work great for 2pop whipping from 4 to 2, 5 to 3, 6 to 4...
I think you can forget about copper, that'll be Pete's. But, that naked grasshill in your capital looks like it might have something. I might fight him for copper just for Colossos, if you can get it early.
I don't think you have to reload, eventhough at least 1wb should've been out faster. I'd chop or whip it, probably OF into another one.
I can't compare which strategy would be best without playing, that's why I wasn't sure which city to settle as 2nd spot. I said fish, it'd still be decent even for building GLH there (4 grasshill mines). So, chopping into settlers/workers would still be possible in capital (grasslands) and leave grasshills to be chopped for GLH. Building it in pig city also works, but it's further away and would take longer to develop (already improved fish). Both of these strategies are probably better than building it in capital, for reasons explained above. I think even getting granary before LH/GLH should work even better, especially on monarch - and would be fastest in fish city. I think
So I think I'd settle fish 2nd and pig 3rd, but there's nothing wrong with going for pig as 2nd.There's nothing wrong with settling 4S of capital, you can still settle smtg like this further S, E. 1st ring Pig before other one, depends if Peter goes for them. With GLH you want to settle as many as you can, they don't need to have food specials or can share them (micro intensive). 1 lake tile and few grassland farms are all you need, really. Set them up with granaries, they still work great for 2pop whipping from 4 to 2, 5 to 3, 6 to 4...
I think you can forget about copper, that'll be Pete's. But, that naked grasshill in your capital looks like it might have something. I might fight him for copper just for Colossos, if you can get it early.
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Dub..I'd say settling fish would actually be the high level play here. It is what I would do. The early food sharing and trade route being important. On Monarch, should be able to get away with pigs city first, but honestly I'd still go fish share city first with a quick settler to follow. (and granted this would all be sooner here) This gives time to get those wbs and settler while doing the chopping thing and then the necessary road. Roads here were bad, although not sure of timing of things...coastal starts can leave some idle turns otherwise without TW start. Ofc, a mine could have been built. (mines not being terribly critical early with whipping but nice if nothing better to do) I suspect Arcan may have had nothing better to do for a few turns there..other than the mine, so road on forests not bad for quick chops later (and in case of settler, 1t sooner settle to the E) edit: actually 3t sooner
@lymond OP had T23 BW. Wheat improved T20, move to the forest SW of cap T21, road done T23. Perfect timing to start chopping.
I think in general it's best to settle the strongest sites first! Without doubt that pigs spot is the strongest one available. True, non-connected so loses 2
, but 3rd city is coming very soon and can be connected to the capital. No biggie either way IMO, going fish first wins some . Anyway, usually 
>
> unless starved for .
I think in general it's best to settle the strongest sites first! Without doubt that pigs spot is the strongest one available. True, non-connected so loses 2
, but 3rd city is coming very soon and can be connected to the capital. No biggie either way IMO, going fish first wins some . Anyway, usually >> unless starved for .Thanks for the insight. In hindsight, I agree a mine would have been better. The roads were a result of idle turns before BW, but the mine had not even crossed my mind. Now that the roads are in place, though, and I have already started on Animal Husbandry, is the fish city still a viable play? I agree that with a mine in place and earlier Sailing it would have been better.
I wouldn't be so sure that a mine was the best play. It beats a road, yes, but still a mine is only 4yield-tile, when forest grass is 3yield. 1
difference when building a settler. Chopping, however, is 20. The sooner you found early cities the sooner they contribute and it snowballs from there. Aim to be as fast as you can.Hm, yeah, I see. I think the most important thing that I learned in this short turnset is that, since I had no really decent tiles apart from the wheat, I definitely should have whipped the WB. I was trying to get to 4 for the 2-whip for the settler, but I probably lost some turns there.
Moving on!
T36: As per lymond's advice, I move my Warrior out of my cap to spawnbust. My worker has to wait for AH to come online to pasture the pigs (5 turns), so I move him onto a forest in Babylon to chop.
T37: The settler is built, and he moves to his spot. I put the OF (14) into a work boat, and start chopping.
T38: Akkad is founded in the City2 spot, and starts growing on a Warrior, while working a floodplain. When I check the city screen, however, the trade routes don't appear, even though the Worker finished the road this turn. What is up with that? West of Akkad, I move the spawnbusting warrior to the spot 2N of the Wheat, so essentially the entire peninsula should be covered. I also lower research to 0% for one turn, putting it back to 100% the next.
T39: Never mind about the trade routes, they appeared this turn. My Warrior west of Akkad defeats a Lion that spawned there earlier, and is eligible for a promotion. Should I promote him to Woodsman I even though the only good spawnbusting spots are grassland? Or should I give Combat II, or even just postpone his promotion? I decide upon the latter for now, and am eager to hear your comments. Chopping finishes, and next turn I will have a WB with 10
overflow.
T40: My Worker moves towards the pigs to pasture them. In the one extra turn he has, he will prebuild a road for 1 turn. (I had not calculated the extra turn due to Akkad's maintenance cost.) Our new Work Boat starts working the clams, and I have to decide what to put the overflow in. I decide on a settler - afterwards, I will let Babylon grow to 4 on a warrior, and then switch back to settler to whip it. Is this the best way to get City3 out as quick as possible?
T41: I prebuild the road and switch to settler in Babylon.
T42: AH hits, finally. I start Sailing in order to get cracking on a lighthouse. After that, depending on the situation, first Writing or maybe directly Masonry.
The good news: we have horses! The bad news: they are in about the worst spot imaginable. See the screenshot.
I think my research path, based on lymond's advice, should be okay. What I'm uncertain about is my build orders, though. Was it good to put my OF into a settler and then switch to a warrior? Should I maybe have switched to a work boat, or put the overflow into a worker? This is something I find very difficult to properly manage, and I feel this is the most tricky thing I need to learn if I want to move up towards Emperor.
Edit: I just thought that, without your advice, I would have definitely prioritized Pottery to get those floodplains cottaged ASAP. I get the feeling that that's not that much of a priority in this game, is it? An earlier GLH will probably pay of more...
T36: As per lymond's advice, I move my Warrior out of my cap to spawnbust. My worker has to wait for AH to come online to pasture the pigs (5 turns), so I move him onto a forest in Babylon to chop.
T37: The settler is built, and he moves to his spot. I put the OF (14
) into a work boat, and start chopping.T38: Akkad is founded in the City2 spot, and starts growing on a Warrior, while working a floodplain. When I check the city screen, however, the trade routes don't appear, even though the Worker finished the road this turn. What is up with that? West of Akkad, I move the spawnbusting warrior to the spot 2N of the Wheat, so essentially the entire peninsula should be covered. I also lower research to 0% for one turn, putting it back to 100% the next.
T39: Never mind about the trade routes, they appeared this turn. My Warrior west of Akkad defeats a Lion that spawned there earlier, and is eligible for a promotion. Should I promote him to Woodsman I even though the only good spawnbusting spots are grassland? Or should I give Combat II, or even just postpone his promotion? I decide upon the latter for now, and am eager to hear your comments. Chopping finishes, and next turn I will have a WB with 10
overflow.T40: My Worker moves towards the pigs to pasture them. In the one extra turn he has, he will prebuild a road for 1 turn. (I had not calculated the extra turn due to Akkad's maintenance cost.) Our new Work Boat starts working the clams, and I have to decide what to put the overflow in. I decide on a settler - afterwards, I will let Babylon grow to 4 on a warrior, and then switch back to settler to whip it. Is this the best way to get City3 out as quick as possible?
T41: I prebuild the road and switch to settler in Babylon.
T42: AH hits, finally. I start Sailing in order to get cracking on a lighthouse. After that, depending on the situation, first Writing or maybe directly Masonry.
The good news: we have horses! The bad news: they are in about the worst spot imaginable. See the screenshot.
Spoiler screenshot :
I think my research path, based on lymond's advice, should be okay. What I'm uncertain about is my build orders, though. Was it good to put my OF into a settler and then switch to a warrior? Should I maybe have switched to a work boat, or put the overflow into a worker? This is something I find very difficult to properly manage, and I feel this is the most tricky thing I need to learn if I want to move up towards Emperor.
Edit: I just thought that, without your advice, I would have definitely prioritized Pottery to get those floodplains cottaged ASAP. I get the feeling that that's not that much of a priority in this game, is it? An earlier GLH will probably pay of more...
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Yeah, sampsa is right. Keep in mind that I was giving advice mainly from the last report I saw. And knowing the the math - from sampsa - on the BW timing, then definitely the road/chop chop (if from the start). Mine is really irrelevant early unless you have nothing better to do, since you will be whipping.
Fish city was mainly about timing, sharing and distance. It's good to understand this, but less relevant at this level. In reality, besides being a great city, Pigs city looks like you can settle it sooner than the fish city anyway, cause of the hills. In fact, Pigs may even become your capital later depending on what you want to do. And the sooner the better to get GLH up there.
warrior to NW can probably move up to the jungle hill. warrior W of akkad can hop on that hill
horses seem fine. You can put a city 1N with spices for food. city1 spot still good too..just share stuff. Not every city has to be amazing with GLH since they are all coastal.
Trade route? do you have a road on the pigs? Akkad is not connected otherwise. Note: if you get a road connect to the tile adjacent to where you settle the trade route is instant, if after you settle it would be the turn after.
Not sure about the OF, but good question. Did you do 4>2 whip? I often will whip a settler into a worker, but it depends on your needs and worker bandwidth. How fast you want to settle and what needs improving/chopping. A second worker sooner than later here would be good, mainly to finish chopping around Babs for more settlers.
more: with OF from settlers and 3 good tiles, the second worker should be pretty quick..yeah you can switch to warrior to grow back onto 3rd improvement or just complete worker if it is really fast - again depends on the OF.
Also, looks like you need a few turns of 0% research to fund Sailing. Not sure what your gpt is at 0%, but basically just do the math after a couple of turns or so, then go 100%. You will mainly be doing this for some time after settling the first city and hitting deficit research. That is, run 0% research to fund the next techs.
(AH was the right play, especially seeing that city. I had less info earlier when suggesting Pot. But POT not bad either in lieu of AH since it is faster - to Writing, but I do it for that and granaries..not cottages...and also in the mindframe of settling fish city first. But really most important thing is always strong food tiles) Difficulty can change these decisions as well
yep, since the road wasn't there in the first place, get the strong food up first always then complete the route. No clue on the timing of your worker earlier if it could get the road in time first
yep, start LH asap..you can finish the warrior later with stronger hammer tiles after growth
and yep, you can get worker after then next settler whip..it's good you put the 11OF into settler, or worker. If you...say..had a chop ready at that point you can put the chop into the new worker as well..again, just the timings of things. City 3 likely won't need much with worker early, mainly you want next one to finish chops in Babs and then help with Akkad.
Fish city was mainly about timing, sharing and distance. It's good to understand this, but less relevant at this level. In reality, besides being a great city, Pigs city looks like you can settle it sooner than the fish city anyway, cause of the hills. In fact, Pigs may even become your capital later depending on what you want to do. And the sooner the better to get GLH up there.
warrior to NW can probably move up to the jungle hill. warrior W of akkad can hop on that hill
horses seem fine. You can put a city 1N with spices for food. city1 spot still good too..just share stuff. Not every city has to be amazing with GLH since they are all coastal.
Trade route? do you have a road on the pigs? Akkad is not connected otherwise. Note: if you get a road connect to the tile adjacent to where you settle the trade route is instant, if after you settle it would be the turn after.
Not sure about the OF, but good question. Did you do 4>2 whip? I often will whip a settler into a worker, but it depends on your needs and worker bandwidth. How fast you want to settle and what needs improving/chopping. A second worker sooner than later here would be good, mainly to finish chopping around Babs for more settlers.
more: with OF from settlers and 3 good tiles, the second worker should be pretty quick..yeah you can switch to warrior to grow back onto 3rd improvement or just complete worker if it is really fast - again depends on the OF.
Also, looks like you need a few turns of 0% research to fund Sailing. Not sure what your gpt is at 0%, but basically just do the math after a couple of turns or so, then go 100%. You will mainly be doing this for some time after settling the first city and hitting deficit research. That is, run 0% research to fund the next techs.
(AH was the right play, especially seeing that city. I had less info earlier when suggesting Pot. But POT not bad either in lieu of AH since it is faster - to Writing, but I do it for that and granaries..not cottages...and also in the mindframe of settling fish city first. But really most important thing is always strong food tiles) Difficulty can change these decisions as well
yep, since the road wasn't there in the first place, get the strong food up first always then complete the route. No clue on the timing of your worker earlier if it could get the road in time first
yep, start LH asap..you can finish the warrior later with stronger hammer tiles after growth
and yep, you can get worker after then next settler whip..it's good you put the 11OF into settler, or worker. If you...say..had a chop ready at that point you can put the chop into the new worker as well..again, just the timings of things. City 3 likely won't need much with worker early, mainly you want next one to finish chops in Babs and then help with Akkad.
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Ah, yes, of course, I didn't finish the road on the pigs. That's the confusion about the trade routes. Since it's one worker turn, I think I will do that after the pasture - 1 worker turn for 2 seems like an even trade.
I did do 4>2 whip here, but I still only had 11 OF, which is not terribly much. I feel that after the next settler, I definitely should build a worker in Babylon though before building another settler.
Another question: since the Warrior in Akkad is mainly just to be building something while growing, do I switch to a lighthouse when Sailing pops? I assume I would, since the warrior isn't really a priority.
seems like an even trade.I did do 4>2 whip here, but I still only had 11 OF, which is not terribly much. I feel that after the next settler, I definitely should build a worker in Babylon though before building another settler.
Another question: since the Warrior in Akkad is mainly just to be building something while growing, do I switch to a lighthouse when Sailing pops? I assume I would, since the warrior isn't really a priority.
I think OF into settler and whip it at size 6 is good with these tiles though OF into worker (for chopping!), whip size 5 seems OK too. The main point is that since you've created 3 strong tiles you should always be working them. When you grow to size 6 there will be quite a few unhappy turns though. Again I think 2nd work boat was a small mistake.
@sampsa, when you say the 2nd work boat was a mistake, that's because of the three strong tile thing?
If I understand this correctly, it's only worth it if I'll always be working that tile, so now my whip sizes are 5>3 and 6>3. And that - correct me if I'm wrong - means that I should start keeping a Warrior in the cap for happiness, since I don't have any happiness resources. Should I have built another Warrior while growing back to whip size instead?
If I understand this correctly, it's only worth it if I'll always be working that tile, so now my whip sizes are 5>3 and 6>3. And that - correct me if I'm wrong - means that I should start keeping a Warrior in the cap for happiness, since I don't have any happiness resources. Should I have built another Warrior while growing back to whip size instead?
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