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Forum Game - mastering Monarch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Arcanior, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. Arcanior

    Arcanior Chieftain

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    Another question: I feel like, when Writing pops, it might be a good idea to go straight for a library in Babylon. Perhaps after the lighthouse, because that will give +2 :food:, which basically means another scientist... Though Babylon can perfectly support 2 scientists as is. But if I do it without the lighthouse, that's basically all it'll do.
     
  2. Dubioza

    Dubioza Chieftain

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    Few things, researching Pottery speeds up research of Writting. Seing that all of these cities have decent food, they would work a lot better for whipping if you set them up with Granaries. Granaries before Libraries - apsolutely. If they grow itno unhapiness, just slowbuild a worker or a settler until unhapiness is gone. Don't take everything we said so verbatim...I said I like to road hills while I'm on them, but that road next to D-K is not really needed. Instead, you could've mined another hill or farm a grassland. D-K is working 2/0/0 tile while you said you feel 3/0/0 is not worth working. You're asking what to do with workers, while, beside food specials, only 3 tiles are improved for 4 cities.

    Next to Akkad you have lots of forests still. We said GLH should be chopped, right? You should chop more of them, even if they are not in your culture. That's why we said you need 2 workers there, and here is why I said to go with both workers on grasshill, before PH, to mine them. You'd grow faster in Akkad to size 4 or 5, queue another worker/settler and 2pop whip it with as close to 29/60 or 69/100 for max OF into GLH. You shouldn't have whipped LH in Akkad, that's why you whipped a worker there - to finish LH. How manny hammers you had invested in worker before you whipped it? That whip and chop should've completed a LH - and could've been done on the turn Masonry was researched, so OF from LH would go to GLH. Then regrow building GLH, working probably pig+grasshill mine, on size 3 add PH mine, size 4 put 1-2 turns into worker, whip and repeat. Or grow to size 5 on another FP and then whip.

    In D-K I'd rather whip LH than be working 2/0/0 tile, before mines get improved, you'd get 1 more food from fish and could work coast, 2/0/2 tile.

    I really think you're waisting worker turns by moving them on, off, back on the tile, and not use their abilities before they run out of movement.

    You have Sailing, you don't need roads to connect cities to have trade routes if they are coastal.

    I'm trying to give more general advices for you to incorporate in your game, instead of guiding your every turn; I think that should help you more than me saying whip now, put that there, or so..
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018 at 7:16 AM
  3. sampsa

    sampsa The Czar

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    Well, growing to work tiles like coast (1:food:2:commerce:) does win some :commerce:, but still generally you want to be as efficient as you can :food:/:hammers:-wise.
    You are misunderstanding something. It is not possible to have more food in food bin, finish LH with full OF and maybe finish a tech 1T sooner. That would mean that it's good micro and wins :food::hammers::commerce:. Working weak tiles never accomplishes that. Also, like I tried to explain in my previous post, there is no such thing as "max OF benefit". It's :hammers: in the bank, that's all.
     
  4. Dubioza

    Dubioza Chieftain

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    You're correct. I checked :D

    With nothing else touched except Akkad, on T58:

    Akkad1

    Food: size 3, 3/26
    Hammers: 0+15
    Commerce: 116+20
    Grasshill Mine 4T till completion (both workers there)

    Spoiler Image :
    Akkad1.jpg


    Akkad2

    Food: size 3, 3/26
    Hammers: 11+3 (EDIT: 11+1 with working the same tiles on T58, oops)
    Commerce: 114+19 (EDIT: +20 with working the same tiles on T58, oops)
    Grasshill Mine 2T till completion (both workers there)

    Spoiler Image :
    Akkad2.jpg


    I knew it was close and after thinking for a while realized your micro is better. 2T faster worker + 2T sooner whip anger vs 3 hammers + 2 commerce. Faster worker always wins.

    *Played from last save (1920), moved worker from Babylon to grassland next to Akkad as it was in T52 screenshot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018 at 1:06 PM
    sampsa likes this.
  5. Dubioza

    Dubioza Chieftain

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    Actually, there is 3rd way, by working grassland instead grasshill while producing LH, to get 2 more food in food bin:

    Akkad3

    Food: size 3, 5/26
    Hammers: 0+13
    Commerce: 116+20
    Grasshill Mine 4T till completion (both workers there)

    Spoiler Image :
    Akkad3.jpg


    Still, faster worker wins.
     
  6. sampsa

    sampsa The Czar

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    The difference is surprisingly small indeed. I want to stress that the reason why your Akkad1-line is competitive has nothing to do with OF. It's competitive because it works a 3:food:1:commerce:-tile for more turns than "whip worker asap".

    Now that I think about it... why bother finishing the warrior first, just switch to worker, whip, OF to lighthouse, finish warrior.
     
  7. Dubioza

    Dubioza Chieftain

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    Hah, that's the next one I wanted to try :D

    I know, I didn't say it's only because OF, but since he was already on size 4...wouldn't lose that much. I thought he already started chopping, so worker whip with full OF would come sooner. Looks like he just moved from Babylon to that grassland tile and from it went to PH to mine?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018 at 2:21 PM
  8. Dubioza

    Dubioza Chieftain

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    Akkad4

    Food: size 3, 4/26
    Hammers: 10+1
    Commerce: 113+20
    Grasshill Mine 1T till completion (both workers there)
    Whip anger goes away another turn sooner.

    Looks like we found a winner.

    Spoiler Image :
    Akkad4.jpg


    @Arcanior, don't get discouraged by us (I mean me :D ) pointing out mistakes, it's still pretty good. You see that everyone needs time to get it right, and usually more info, and teamwork, to be able to come to best conclusions. We're all still learning. Especially because you see in those examples that different micro makes a small difference, it usually depends on what you're trying to do. Macro is what wins games. That OF after LH depends on when you're able to put it into GLH, if it comes before you research Masonry, then it's not as good. Worker turns are important, very much so. 1T faster chop or mine, or 1T faster settler snowballs more than few hammers from optimized micro.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018 at 2:43 PM
  9. Dubioza

    Dubioza Chieftain

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    By playing the start, I don't see the need to grow to size 3 to start on 1st settler.

    Start settler on size 2 (perfect timing for 2nd warrior to come out), worker from wheat to mine, move to N grasshill, chop, road. 2nd city settled T33. (S1-4)

    While the earliest you can settle by waiting to grow to size 3 is T36, with 3 forests chopped (1 chop while on size 2). 3 warriors and 1T into road 1N of wheat before BW. (S5)

    EDIT: You can do it even faster, on T32 with double chopping on size 2, and road. (last 3 screens). I think I still like 1st one better than last one.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018 at 10:22 AM
  10. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    Or skip road and chop boat instead. There shouldn't be any roads anywhere before, say, T60 or so.
     
  11. Dubioza

    Dubioza Chieftain

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    That would be next worker move, chopping WB. You don't like roads, even as in this case, when it speeds up 2nd city? I see your point though, 2T faster WB if another chop instead of road.
     
  12. Lain

    Lain Chieftain

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    Yup, I think settling 1T later is okay if it means working the improved fish sooner :). And 3rd, 4th city will probably come quicker.

    Definitely like the mine though with low happy cap and a lot to build.
     

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