@vra: in case you haven't noticed, that is a gold mine hill.
Good job ending the war ... phew. Now, let's hope JC continues the war. We could declare on HRE if necessary, or research Mass Media to end the Apo Palace's binding power. I think both are not worth it. Unless JC asks us to join the war.
Now, the city management. Why are we building research with 2 engineers specialists? To get GE points? I suggest we build the Buddhist Stupa instead. It gives +2 hammer, and more importantly +50% culture. Isabella has stolen our sheep. We need to get it back. We also want to stop her from stealing our wheats. More importantly, we want to flip the roman city and gain access to coal.
I would also not be working on so many mines or forests. Our health does not allow us to grow further, so probably remove a pop on the lumbermill and add a scientist instead.
There is a silver up north ... maybe connect it when workers are free and try to trade it for money or health resources.
I'm afraid that HRE will break to JC. Not sure how we could handle that in the possible case of a JC + HRE vs us war.....
Turn 3 - JC finished Eiffel Tower.....
Turn 4 - We got Medicine.... Research set on Industrialism
Spoiler:
And changed civics accordingly:
Spoiler:
Berlin set on Hospital (1 turn )->Public Transportation (1 turn ) -> Research
Turn 5 - Finished anarchy. Decided to make a deal with Izzy. But .....
Spoiler:
Yes, JC entered in WFYABTA state... I don't think that is much of the issue now ( he would not trade SS tech to us anyway ), but maybe it wasn't the best move ( feel free to Mr Fox ). However, we need combustion for most of the SS parts ( Combustion-> Plastics ) and all the Electricity wonders were already built ( by JC ) so IMHO it wasn't such a bad....
Turn 6 -We got a really nice and useful event
Spoiler:
Some more health.... cool
Turn 7 - We got the AP vote...
Spoiler:
I voted yes... this won't put us in Gilga's good side ( we never been there, so no big loss ), but anything that make our DP partner stronger will help us
Turn 8 – AP results gave city back to Izzy ( HRE and sumeria voted no, all the other members ( all alive civs except Toku ) voted yes )
Turn 10 - First tank in sight in all game... Unfortunately it is not ours ..
Spoiler:
Ex-HRE Mainz ( with coal ) is heavily garrisoned.... it won't flip as fast as that
Spoiler:
Brief state of the world, 1880
City screen
Spoiler:
Tech screen
Spoiler:
Now the bad joke
Spoiler:
In the last turn of my turnset I decided to put the research slider in 0% and ask JC and Izzy for oil ( they're the only ones that have it avaliable to sell ATM ) just for fun... The results were :
Spoiler:
WTH, I thought that resources in civ IV were in open market, and not runned by some kind of cartel.... Did Izzy and JC founded CivOPEC? 77 GPT is far to high.....
However this one IMHO is not such a joke... Maybe we should discuss it
Spoiler:
Thoughts
I have three issues to discuss: JC - HRE relation and the effect that this can have in the future , the JC prop for Coal deal and corps.
First: JC will vassalize Charlie soon enough ( he already conquered HRE capitol and by my accounts Charlie has 2 cities in terra firma and the rest in islands ) . This can mean heavy trouble for us, not because the HRE ( that should had a spectacular break in power ), but because JC is pursuing a military victory. We are by far the weakest civ and I'm not sure that the DP with Izzy will put JC expansionist wills to somewhere else ( he's not too keen of Gilga and Toku, but.... ). If JC turns to us, we're dead meat.....oh well, "nothing new under the sun" ....
Second: JC asks for 15 GPT for coal... I've made some back of envelop math and, as we have 9 worked tiles ( and 1 not worked ATM ) that will give + 1 hammer if railroaded ( putting our base prod in 66 hammers with current citizen assignment), and considering the 50 % bonus that coal gives to Ironworks and the construction of a coal plant ( a thing that would put our prod bonus in 225% ), our city could pump 214,5 per turn ( with current citizen assignment ) instead of 142. If those hammers follow to research, as they are now, that will mean more 70 .... As Mainz will not flip unless JC moves his troops out, this may be a very good deal.
Third: We'll have a GP in 11 turns.... if we get a GM ( 30% chances ), sushi or not? P.S BTW Gilga founded Mining corps ( we don't have coal anyway.... )
Roster
GreyFox - On deck, sharpening his whip tip as usual
Shyuhe
Feedback
Imhotep
r_rolo1 - Just played and faced Oil lobbysts
pholkhero - Up, wherever he is
Spoiler Autolog... finally installed BUG :
Logging by BUG Mod 2.11 (BtS 3.13)
------------------------------------------------ Turn 300/500 (1860 AD) [10-Nov-2007 15:55:45]
IBT:
Turn 301/500 (1862 AD) [10-Nov-2007 16:48:01] A Farm was built near Mainz
IBT: A Farm was destroyed near Mainz
Turn 302/500 (1864 AD) [10-Nov-2007 16:49:18]
IBT:
Turn 303/500 (1866 AD) [10-Nov-2007 16:50:29] A Farm was built near Mainz Tech learned: Medicine
IBT: Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Turn 306/500 (1872 AD) [10-Nov-2007 17:00:58] Munich begins: Public Transportation (1 turns) A Camp was built near Toledo Munich grows: 25 Munich finishes: Public Transportation
IBT: Attitude Change: Gilgamesh(Sumeria) towards Charlemagne(Holy Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased'
Turn 307/500 (1874 AD) [10-Nov-2007 17:03:30]
IBT: Mining Inc founded in a distant land Civics Change: Gilgamesh(Sumeria) from 'Caste System' to 'Emancipation'
Turn 308/500 (1876 AD) [10-Nov-2007 17:05:43]
IBT:
Turn 309/500 (1878 AD) [10-Nov-2007 17:07:06]
IBT: Civics Change: Tokugawa(Japan) from 'Caste System' to 'Emancipation'
You forgot to fire the engineers. I think you have a whip coming in your direction rolo. Otherwise, looks good. I'd take the coal deal since we're not going to flip Mainz any time soon. We can always cancel the deal if we can get the city.
i have fired the engineers and hired the scientists (250% multiplier vs. 150%), but am still not sure what to do re: coal ~ if we do get it, i want to cancel research and start on a coal plant.
i'm going to hold off a bit on playing ~ i still have lash marks from last time
I was thinking on declaring on HRE .... IIRC, if we and JC are at war with HRE, and then if HRE vassal to JC, peace will be forced upon (it will be real bad if we are then at war with JC ). This gain us the brownie point with JC (hopefully to friendly).
Another possibility is to bribe JC to switch to representation. It is really stupid of Firaxis to have us not enjoy the fav civic +ve relation simply because JC is not in his own fav civic.
Yet another possibility is to have JC war against Toku/Gigalmesh once he capitulated HRE.
Pretty good play, rolo1. For once, we seems to have more healthy faces than we can manage in an OCC. We could consider removing some forest to farms or changing a mine to windmill to grow further.
Now that the candy is given, the cane: other had already lashed you on the engineer, mine would be why wasn't the Stupa built? I specifically mentioned that (and the engineers, ofcourse).
In this situation, since you're both at war with the soon-to-be vassal, we will get peace when JC vassalized HRE. I don't think we should send JC after Toku/Gilgamesh since it'll push him so close to domination that he may actually tro to go for the win (although it'd be fun to watch). Brbibing JC for the representation bonus sounds good - it'll accumulate over time and we may be able to push him to friendly.
I just looked over the XML values. JC has a 90% chance of declaring at pleased
And we should take in account Toku... the guy is still pissed with our denial of helping him against Izzy and I would not find strange that we would DoW us in a near future.... If Toku Dows us and JC decides to join the party just for fun.... well, any scenario with JC DoWing us ends the same way
As far as I know, that's the chance of him *not* declaring when at pleased, if otherwise he might. Check the XML again - IIRC the warmonger civs like Monty have values like 70 or 80 here, while the really peaceful ones have 100.
Is it already decided that you will try to go for space in the end? If you can get JC to friendly, the UN would look mightily tasty as well.
As far as I know, that's the chance of him *not* declaring when at pleased, if otherwise he might. Check the XML again - IIRC the warmonger civs like Monty have values like 70 or 80 here, while the really peaceful ones have 100.
Is it already decided that you will try to go for space in the end? If you can get JC to friendly, the UN would look mightily tasty as well.
Sorry, that's sloppiness on my part. Thrar's description is correct but I figured people would understand what I meant Diplo will not work. JC is the largest candidate = he will vote for himself.
i have fired the engineers and hired the scientists (250% multiplier vs. 150%), but am still not sure what to do re: coal ~ if we do get it, i want to cancel research and start on a coal plant.
i'm going to hold off a bit on playing ~ i still have lash marks from last time
not as if i have time to write a good report anyway . . . ahem . . .
Fired Eng, hired Scientists; started Stupa; bribed JC
Press Enter
I also started to convert one of the grass forests into a farm
1882 ad
Gilgamesh completed Apollo
1884 ad
Stupa done. I was going to go w/a coal plant, but figured we don/t need it now, and we'd be dependent on a trade to keep it working so i figured we could wait
1886 ad
AFter JC captured Ulm, Charlie capitulated to him.
we can again bribe JC to attack for Med and Superconductors; perhaps
1890 ad
Industrialism is in, and I went w/Artillery next for Apollo
We hit 10 million people:
1892 ad
Jackpot!
Aluminium!!
1894 ad
New Election
1896 ad
Results:
Aluminium mined, another Farm is done, too.
1898 ad
Plow Event:
Needed to hire another merchant to stay making money at 100%
1900 ad
JC will sign a DP! don't know how long it'd last, but may be worthwhil.
and another GS. Reckon we should merge him, but ohld off to be sure.
1901 ad
On the IBT, we got a couple visitors:
Little did I know they were gearing up for something.
Also:
Research begun: Rocketry (6 Turns)
JCs @ Friendly
1903 ad
Gaah!
Okay, so it looks like Gil declared on Izyy, we got dragged in by our DP, and Toku jumped on us as well. i'll start on a couple marines for some defense as heres Tokus large invasion force:
1904 ad
After the first marine was done, I sent in him and some infantry:
ended the threat on our homeland and lost only one infantry. We got a GG, who is still waiting. We're at the health limit now that were losing our sea resources, so I stopped growth
1905 ad
we're losing food now that they're pillaging our resources. I really wish I would've made that DP with JC, too, but here we are now with 2 wars. Also, JC has EOHHN so hopefully someone else is the target.
tsk tsk. You should have taken the DP with JC and cancelled the one with Izzy. JC = far better protector than Izzy. Toku looks pretty backwards so I don't think there's much to worry about. I'm more concerned about JC dogpiling on Izzy...
Pretty nice play. Ditto on the JC DP. We should always jump at whatever opportunity that arise which allows us to increase brownie point with JC.
The scientists may be kept to get us the ethanol corp. The GG should be settled immediately. You didn't get us the coal deal? No matter, we don't need the hammer bonus now, but we need it should. The Coal City just show +60% culture, JC must be buying all the cultural buildings he can in the city, so it won't flip so fast.
I doubt JC will dogpile on Izzy ... more likely for him to go for Gilgamesh. JC is pretty loyal to friends (which is why we should try to get to Friendly), unlike Alex.
What do you get if you cross a centipede with a parrot?
Spoiler:
A walkie-talkie
Did I say GG should be settled? Well, I lied
I noticed w edo not have any medics, so a medic3 MG was created.
And next turn, toku finally unloads his galleon:
It was wiped off immediately. We are not afraid of his troops, but those blockage frigates are a royal PITA. We starved from size 28 to 24 ... to make matter worse, JC launched a part:
So when Toku finally decides to talk, I signed peace immediately.
Peace for toku didn't last long ...
Poor Izzy, let's see how well she can hold out. Now, if she came asking for help, we could. But make sure we get some destroyers out to protect our seafood first. And yes, we have oil now:
Then Charle came demanding us to switch to vassalage ...
Go pester someone else please. We got some events, one bad, one good. But the bad one is inconsequential.
Yeah, go Kathrine go, destroy all you want, baby. We have no citizens living there anyway.
I have added a Jewish Synagouge in an attempt to get back our sheep and wheat. Also completed the Apollo Program, interleaved with 3 workboats. The switching to and fro from Apollo to workboats has no effect on the number of turns for Apollo, because workboat is so cheap, most of it overflows to Apollo so it is like completing the Apollo and all overflow hammers were magically converted into 3 workboats. We should allow the capitol to slowly grow back, and gradually add back the lost scientists.
The worst thing that happened is this, at my last turn:
Sh!t!!! This is gonna to cost us dearly. I considered defying it ... but then I don't want to alienate JC. Voted "No", but chances are JC would force us into it.
Logging by BUG Mod 2.11 (BtS 3.13)
------------------------------------------------ Turn 325/500 (1905 AD) [13-Nov-2007 09:50:21] Isoroku Yamamoto (Machine Gun) promoted: Lead by Warlord Isoroku Yamamoto (Machine Gun) promoted: Medic I Isoroku Yamamoto (Machine Gun) promoted: Medic II Isoroku Yamamoto (Machine Gun) promoted: Medic III Munich finishes: Artillery
IBT:
Turn 326/500 (1906 AD) [13-Nov-2007 09:52:14] Munich begins: Infantry (1 turns) Infantry promoted: Combat I While attacking in German territory at Munich, Infantry defeats (20.00/20): Japanese Cavalry (Prob Victory: 73.8%) Infantry promoted: Combat I Infantry promoted: Combat II While attacking in German territory at Munich, Infantry loses to: Japanese Cavalry (1.20/15) (Prob Victory: 78.3%) Infantry promoted: Combat I Infantry promoted: Pinch While attacking in German territory at Munich, Infantry defeats (8.80/20): Japanese Rifleman (Prob Victory: 98.6%) Infantry promoted: Combat I Infantry promoted: Pinch While attacking in German territory at Munich, Infantry defeats (14.40/20): Japanese Rifleman (Prob Victory: 98.7%) 2nd Munich Marines (Marine) promoted: Combat I While attacking in German territory at Munich, 2nd Munich Marines (Marine) defeats (12.48/24): Japanese Rifleman (Prob Victory: 94.6%) While attacking in German territory at Munich, Infantry defeats (15.60/20): Japanese Rifleman (Prob Victory: 97.8%) A Windmill was built near Mainz While attacking in German territory at Munich, Pikeman defeats (2.40/6): Japanese Trebuchet (Prob Victory: 97.1%) While attacking in German territory at Munich, Pikeman defeats (3.30/6): Japanese Trebuchet (Prob Victory: 97.1%) While attacking in German territory at Munich, Pikeman defeats (6.00/6): Japanese Cavalry (Prob Victory: 100.0%) While attacking in German territory at Munich, Nixie Bottcher (Axeman) defeats (4.35/5): Japanese Trebuchet (Prob Victory: 100.0%) Munich begins: Marine (2 turns) Munich finishes: Marine
Turn 328/500 (1908 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:00:32] Research begun: Plastics (10 Turns) Munich begins: Jewish Synagogue (2 turns) A Windmill was built near Munich Munich finishes: Jewish Synagogue
IBT: While defending in German territory near Mainz, 1st Munich Marines (Marine) defeats (21.12/24): Japanese Trebuchet (Prob Victory: 100.0%) While defending in German territory near Mainz, 1st Munich Marines (Marine) defeats (14.88/24): Japanese Cavalry (Prob Victory: 98.8%) While defending in German territory near Mainz, Isoroku Yamamoto (Machine Gun) defeats (18.00/18): Japanese Cavalry (Prob Victory: 99.3%) While defending in German territory near Mainz, Isoroku Yamamoto (Machine Gun) defeats (11.52/18): Japanese Rifleman (Prob Victory: 100.0%) While defending in German territory near Mainz, Infantry defeats (19.00/20): Japanese Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.7%) While defending in German territory near Mainz, Infantry defeats (19.00/20): Japanese Rifleman (Prob Victory: 99.7%)
Turn 329/500 (1909 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:03:34]
IBT:
Turn 330/500 (1910 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:04:33] While attacking in German territory near Mainz, Infantry defeats (20.00/20): Japanese Cavalry (Prob Victory: 78.3%) A Windmill was built near Munich
IBT:
Turn 331/500 (1911 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:06:01] While attacking in German territory near Mainz, Infantry defeats (16.60/20): Japanese Cavalry (Prob Victory: 78.3%)
IBT:
Turn 332/500 (1912 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:08:27] While attacking in German territory at Munich, Infantry defeats (16.40/20): Japanese Cavalry (Prob Victory: 73.8%)
IBT: While defending in German territory near Mainz, Isoroku Yamamoto (Machine Gun) defeats (2.52/18): Japanese Cavalry (Prob Victory: 84.2%) Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Charlemagne(Holy Rome), from 'Pleased' to 'Cautious'
Turn 333/500 (1913 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:10:15] While attacking in German territory at Munich, Infantry defeats (9.20/20): Japanese Cavalry (Prob Victory: 73.8%) Fox08(Germany) and Tokugawa(Japan) have signed a peace treaty Munich begins: Work Boat (1 turns) Munich finishes: Work Boat
IBT: Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Fox08(Germany), from 'Furious' to 'Annoyed' Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Gilgamesh(Sumeria), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased' Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Charlemagne(Holy Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Pleased' Civics Change: Gilgamesh(Sumeria) from 'Mercantilism' to 'State Property' Civics Change: Gilgamesh(Sumeria) from 'Organized Religion' to 'Theocracy'
Turn 334/500 (1914 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:13:03] A Town was destroyed near Prague A Fishing Boats was built near Munich
IBT:
Turn 335/500 (1915 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:14:23] Munich begins: Work Boat (1 turns) Munich finishes: Work Boat
IBT: Civics Change: Tokugawa(Japan) from 'Mercantilism' to 'State Property'
Turn 336/500 (1916 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:15:51] A Fishing Boats was built near Munich
IBT: Tokugawa(Japan) declares war on Isabella(Spain) Attitude Change: Isabella(Spain) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious' Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Gilgamesh(Sumeria), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly' Attitude Change: Tokugawa(Japan) towards Isabella(Spain), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Turn 337/500 (1917 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:16:28] Munich begins: Work Boat (1 turns) Tech learned: Plastics Munich finishes: Work Boat
IBT: Attitude Change: Julius Caesar(Rome) towards Tokugawa(Japan), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'
Turn 338/500 (1918 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:17:55] Research begun: Radio (9 Turns) Research begun: Satellites (9 Turns) A Fishing Boats was built near Munich Standard Ethanol founded in Munich Standard Ethanol has spread: Munich Munich finishes: Standard Ethanol
IBT:
Turn 339/500 (1919 AD) [13-Nov-2007 10:23:58] Munich finishes: Apollo Program
Time to you finally ! You should have defied ! The only offset it gives is a unhappiness factor of up to 5 redshirts in some of your cities for "The world considers us a villain". As we play OCC with the Globe this certainly is a non-factor...
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Mr Fox ). However, we need combustion for most of the SS parts ( Combustion-> Plastics ) and all the Electricity wonders were already built ( by JC ) so IMHO it wasn't such a bad....
per turn ( with current citizen assignment ) instead of 142. If those hammers follow to research, as they are now, that will mean more 70 
.... As Mainz will not flip unless JC moves his troops out, this may be a very good deal.
). This gain us the brownie point with JC (hopefully to friendly).
Diplo will not work. JC is the largest candidate = he will vote for himself.
