Fox10 - The Real Thing

Between IW and NP, I think it's NP given this situation. IW will further diminish our city size because of unhealthiness and we won't be able to research towards the end game. We can get a few free engineers from NP+factory (2 I think) but we won't be able to field the engineers that IW opens up.
 
What Shyuhe says is completely true. Definitely NP over IW. I personally would have never give IW a thought without NP. I rather have HE over IW.

For the record, the discussion on 5 nat wonders was initiated by me in post 62, only imhotep responded at post #63. And yes, Moai was not mentioned. Personally, I am considering the benefits of HE vs IW. IW will give only 50% from iron, and comes on line very late. HE gives the same bonus for military units. But now it is moot :D

Actually Moai isn't that bad. Of-course raw-hammers wise, it can't compare with IW. But, it does come much earlier than IW, and it is now that we needed hammers. Plus all these hammers get multiplied by OR, forges and factories, unlike IW.

And as Shyuhe says in the previous page, when we have NP, we will be able to grow to size ~25, working on all 10 water tiles, making the Moai very nice indeed. (For one who had yet played a turnset, Shyuhe sure monitors the game well and is making very astute observations! :goodjob:)

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Next steps, IMHO is, the research path should largely be to complete the Education, then head for CompassOptics. Production wise, UoS can be built, the Parthenon can still be invested if not yet BIADL. Once Education is in, University and Oxford will be priority.

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May I switch with Shyuhe, if he's ready asap ?

I can't play until tomorrow, so if you want the game to go fast it would be the right thing to do :D
 
I wish I could swap but I can't play till the 10th... And I'd really like to play a set this time around instead of being just an adviser :lol:

edit: I just looked at a calendar and realized I'm returning on the 11th. I may have to request a shuffle to the end of the roster (putting me in front of :whipped:).
 
The city-state of Cuzco reports another 15 turns of heavy activity :lol:

Highlights :

Some foreign future victim got first to music in 550 BC - GA born.



We got this guy, so I bulbed the Education.
Well, the turn we had to go.
Was it a good use ?

Sorry, I attempted a comical situation and failed miserably - I should get more sleep.
:blush:

Anyway, where were we ?

Ah, yes, the TURN 212 ( major turn of the set ):





Respectively - research was set to Machinery and build to the University ( decided to skip Parthenon as for now ).

Three turns later, I got a message about a GG born some very far away - an AI is working for us ;)

University is finished in 5 turns, and I start Oxford.

Machinery comes in turn 218, Optics started.
Someone else will have the opportunity to move around with caravels :sad:

As we are almost broke, I set the slider @0% for a turn. We still manage 172 beakers per turn through our scientists.

Once we get some money, the research is reset @100%.

On the last turn, some foreign AI built the Kong Miao.

Our city-empire:



Notice the -1 health. I let it go rationalizing that an additional pop was more beneficial than a -1 food, at least for now.

Once the Optics are in, where are we heading ? Astro, Rifles, Bio ? Having seen it in the MLG5 I suppose we will attempt the Liberalism Biology SS, or else ?

Oh, and the joke ( the hardest part of this turnset was to find one ):

Spoiler :

Q. Why should blondes not be given coffee breaks?
Spoiler :

A. It takes too long to retrain them.

 
Pretty good (if dull) turns! That was actually quite a good joke :)

Narrow continents have the effect of AI-AI war ... well, good for us anyway.

Since we got the UoS, do we have Mediation for a monastery (10%+2beakers is nothing to write home abt but better than nothing)?

I think we would be attempting the Biology sling again ... so research Liberalism up to 1 turn (need Philo first) and go Astronomy, Scimeth, Physics is probably the way to go.

Do we need Alphabet to see what techs the AI have/don't?

Production wise, I think it is abt time to complete the barracks and pump some maces out once we have build like 3~4 caravels.

* GreyFox
* Imhotep
* r_rolo1
* Pawelo
* Cabledawg << UP
* Shyuhe
 
I think the AI will have alphabet by the time we make contact so we won't need it to see what techs they have. Once we get philosophy, do we want to swap in to pacifism? Techwise, optics --> philosophy --> liberalism (1 turn from completion) --> astronomy --> beeline towards biology (leaving SM for later to maximize monasteries)

here are the techs we need for biology:
Gunpowder
Construction
Engineering
Printing Press
Chemistry
Scientific Method

Judging from the availability of the parthenon, it appears we don't have any builder AIs out there (or they got dealt really bad land). I think we should still be able to sling biology if we can get to it be 1300-1400 AD or so.

Also, if we're going to build the NP, are we going to build lumbermills or preserves on the forests in our bfc? I think preserves will be more helpful given our situation.
 
I also think preserves will be more helpful. Lumbermill adds one hammer (with oil for rails adds another), so it is a maximum of 2 hammers. Preserve adds a specialists, which assuming we have the buildings, can support an engineer with 2 hammers + 3 beakers, or a priest with 1 hammer, some gold + 3 beakers. Add on top of that the GP points. I would think Preserves win hands down.

On the other news, Cabledawg is running late with his got it, but since it is one/two more days before Shyuhe is back, I am giving him until tonight (my night) before I step in.

So tentatively, if cabledawg posts his Got-it in 10 hrs, the order will be: cabledawg > shyuhe > greyfox. Else, the order will be greyfox > shyuhe > Imhotep and cable is skipped.
 
I apologize. I didnt realize i was up. Seems like i just played this puppy. Got it.

On a side note, I work weirdish hrs and just woke up. I just had a weird dream and i remember parts of it.

I was driving someones car naked, that I had stolen at a party. I passed some cops who were giving someone else a ticket on the side of the road, they immediately stopped that and went after me. When they pulled me over, they said it was because I was driving really slow and smoke was coming out of the car. Apparently a fire extinguisher had burst and was causing the smoke. They didnt seem to have a problem with me being naked though and let me go.

Something happened between what happened above and what happens next, but i cant remember that. I remember driving along an Interstate going really fast trying to get to Rockville or Rockledge airport......Ive never heard of it...sounds like an airport on the flintstones. All of a sudden the Interstate drops down at a 90 degree angle. Picture me driving off a mile high waterfall. Im now out of the car drifting down like a skydiver. I can see the car falling down out of sight and i see other cars driving normally down this interstate waterfall. I was thinking, why werent there signs that says the road will drop sharply. How many people have to die before they put up a sign. I end up drifting to the side of the waterfall and slowing my fall down by going through bushes on the side. I then walk to this truckstop plaza that had 2 titty bars there. I walk into one and theres one of those "you are here" maps. Im standing there studying it, trying to find out how far this damn airport is. This dude i had met at the party walks in and says, "Hey man, too bad about you crapping your pants". (must be why Im naked). I then ponder whether to ask him for a ride or steal his car...then..I wake up.
 
<breaking out my psychology text book>

This dream means that you have issues with authority (cops, warning sign). Further, your parents never looked after you while you were young and you resented it (crapping pants). Also, you are secretly a democrat at heart ("why werent there signs that says the road will drop sharply. How many people have to die before they put up a sign") and you are looking for the government to look after you.

Oh, and you have the usual sexual issues (titty bar!).
 
Turn 223--->Optics in and we declare on a few civs because of border pops. Currency next.

225--->Currency-->Alphabet next to see enemy research. Oxford completes, caravels started

226--->Scientist born and settled

227--->Alpha in-->Construction next. Its on the path to Sci Method.

228--->Const-->Engineering

233--->Engineering-->Gunpowder

Our city


Culture screen. You can see that Im sending the 4 caravels out...each heading in a different direction and trying to get the circum bonus which will really help us later.


And heres the players with the tech screen. We should be ok for a Biology sling.


Top Cities


England has a ton of gold and will be a tech monster. They also seem to have the production to match. England founded Christianity, but hasnt built the AP palace. Its 2 turns for us to research Theology, which were gonna need anyway. I suggest we do that and go full production to build the AP palace so thats 1 less way for us to lose plus the hammer bonus will be nice.


England should be our first target.

The save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/97311/Fox10_AD-0900.CivBeyondSwordSave

The Joke
Spoiler :
One day Murphy was outside and was mowing his grass when a big moving truck pulled in the driveway next to his. Knowing that no one lives there he figures that he is getting new nieghbor’s. He finishes up his grass and the neighbor’s are unloading the truck he walks up to the fence and says hello, I’m Murphy and I live next door. Well the guy sets down the box that he is carrying and says “good to meet you Murphy I, am Tim”.

Well the two of them got to talking and Murphy asked Tim what he did for a living. Tim thought for a moment and proclaimed proudly that “I deal with logic.” Murphy, looking dumbfounded, said “what?” Tim offered Murphy an example.

Murphy said “allright.” Tim said, “Do you have a dog? Murphy replied “yea, I have a dog”. Tim then stated “Well then it is logical to assume that you have children.” Murphy said that is right, I have 2. Tim then stated “if you have 2 kids then it is logical to assume that you have a wife.” Murphy said “Yea, 10 years now!” Tim said “well then its logical to assume that you are a “heterosexual.” Tim, astonished, said “Wow, that’s right!”

Well later that day Murphy came across his other neighbor Jim and Jim said “Hey, I see you have a new neighbor.” Murphy stated “Yea, he’s very interesting too.” Jim says “what do you mean?” “Well, Murphy stated he has the most interesting job.” Jim said “What is it?” “Murphy says he deals with logic.” Jim said “Logic.. what?” “That’s what I said” stated Murphy. “Well let me give you an example.”

Murphy said “Jim, do you have a dog?” Jim said “Now you know I dont have no dog.” So Murphy pondered this for a minute and said “You’re gay!”

 
It's a tough choice on the AP (hammer wise). It gives us 6 base hammers max that won't expire till the UN (temple, monastery, cathedral) but it will take a lot of hammers to get that + 2 turns of research. I think our hammers will be better spent on other wonders and/or building research.

Churchill is definitely our first target. We need to take him out before he gets redcoats or it's going to become a very costly war. I'm thinking tech-wise, finishing gunpowder and going towards astronomy after that (I think we should have gone astro before gunpowder but too late now). Observatory provides a research bonus and we will be able to harass the AI with galleons as well.

Nobody has answered my earlier question about pacifism. Are we going to use it at all this game? If so, we should research philosophy first and swap soon. If we're not, I think I'm going to plow through towards astro + chemistry before going philo --> liberalism as the AI isn't even close. I vote going after pacifism now to get an earlier GS. 1 GS = 9 base beakers that will recover the 500 or so beakers lost from anarchy in 20 turns (200% multiplier). That's a fairly short span of time and we get an extra hammer to boot.

edit: this is technically not my got it since I can't get the save till tomorrow :lol:
 
I thought the dream was a joke ... Sigmund Freud might have a different explanation from ruff ... ;)

England seems to be the first that needs to go ...

As none of the AI has paper or optics yet, circum navigation seems to be in the bag.

I am fine with going after AP, there is nothing really need to be built (some maces perhaps) before we get Astronomy.

Btw, you should have played 3 more turns to get gunpowder in ... as I say, I rather players stop at research/prod completion than play entirely superficially fixed turn numbers.

Shyuhe is UP or we can swap if you are up too tied down having just returned.

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We shouldnt start building units till we are in Theocracy...its such a waste. Its ok to start units and finish them just after we revolt to Theocracy though. We need Theology, its 2 turns, itll take 6 turns to build the AP and we get some nice hammers, not to mention the denial bonus to the AI. Im also fine with going to Astronomy as well. I pondered it during my set, but didnt want to stop the biology sling.

I also thought about something else. We arent gonna be able to build 1 turn units for awhile...at least until we have a Mil Academy...which means we will need to get Grennys instead of Riflemen. The first GG needs to make a Mil Academy and I think we can then make 1 turn units. Once we revolt to theocracy which should be soon, start making macemen and give them CR2...then we can upgrade them when we get grennys. We should start running merchants so we can do that.

Something else i thought about. If we attack a city on a hill, we should have a Guerrilla 2 promoted unit as the last attacker so he can get back to the stack for safety. However, if the city is not on a hill, we dont have a 2 turn unit that can attack the last defender and get back to the stack. Only thing I can think of is using our 2nd GG on a Macemen...he will have 25 xp after the attachment. We could promote him morale (+1 movement range, Woody1, woody2, woody3...which will give him 2 extra strikes and 15% healing. He will then be 1 xp short of his next promotion.
Keeping him a macemen so he doesnt defend will keep him alive.
 
One member advocates Pacifism and the other theocracy. Hmmm ....

Off-hand, since when the real thing starts, we won't be in pacifism (too costly), I think theocracy is better in the long run, unless we are willing to go 2 revolts (2 turns of anarchy each -- this is Epic).

However, I am not too keen with AP. Yes, I know the hammer bonuses is nice (which require us to build the temple and cathedral too), but I agree with Shyuhe, the AP is too costly and our hammers is better spent building units now if we plan on going Astronomy next.

I am also not too concerned with getting 1-turn unit builds. With smart MMing, you can get 1 turn units built alright without insane hammers (eg. build a cat to get overflow hammers so that you can build a grenie in 1 turn next turn = 2 units in 2 turns = 1 unit/turn). Don't tell me you don't like MMing (if so, you really have no business playing OCC at any high levels -- OCC=MMing).

EDIT: I also agree we should probably start employing merchants ... ideal would be for us to max out scientist while going for Astro, once Astro is in, max out Merchants while going for observatories, and then switch back to scientists once observatory is in. (This is what I call MMing).

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I didn't realize a single civic revolt will take 2 turns. In that case, a GS will take 40 turns to break even the anarchy loss. That doesn't seem like it's worth the price so I will hold off on pacifism for now (unless there are others that want it?).

I still don't think the AP is worth building as a denial wonder but I'll wait for the rest of the team to chime in on this one. If a majority wants theocracy, then I'll go theology before going astronomy.
 
Well you dont need to be in Theocracy till the very last minute...ie...youve built a maceman, musketman, treb, galleon, frigate, and cat all to within 1 turn.

@Greyfox...I do MMing every turn. You can see in the last city screenshot I was building a barracks. Because I didnt need the hammers from the mines, I employed extra scientist.

In the last OCC game we played, building 1 turn units was easy. This game, I dont know where the 150 hammers will come from just to build a cannon, much less the hammers for Artillery. We might be allright once the drydocks are online and we can put the boat overflows into units, but i dont know...Im unsure if its enough. The AP palace is a wonder that adds GP points and gives us valuable hammers while taking hammers away from the competition. We may not need it...I just dont know. My vote is build the sucker.....its like adding an extra mine.
 
@Cable: I am certain you do MMing because you play OCC exclusively, my comment was no meant to anyone in specific, but to a general audience who might balk at my suggestion of MMing every turn ;)

Let's reexamine the AP. It adds 6 hammers at most, and we have now a raw hammers count of 36 I think (not counting any coastal tiles). So, AP brings in 16.7%. Not very fantastic, but not too bad (equivalent to the iron mine, as cable says). I would say if we have nothing better to build, why not. But it must give way to other stuff that would come on line (say observatory).

Anyway, theocracy is needed. My initial idea was to start units production, so that once astronomy is in, we can start galleons and fill them up to go off for pillaging. But if we want AP, we will delay theocracy switch until AP + Observatory is done. A drydock can wait, I think, until we get NP up. As we will be facing triremes with Galleons, I think drydock is not crucial and we certainly don't need another -2 health.

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