France - Catherine de Medici Thread

The central thing with the Chateau is whether it will affect city growth. That's why it was awful in BNW... you wanted food more than anything else, and rather than give a chateau +1 food and the gold and culture, they didn't add food. Ergo, it was awful.

In Civ VI, these maps don't show a lot of farms, so it's plausible that a Chateau is actually powerful now, or at least not a sacrifice to use. One certainly hopes so, anyway.

It looks like in Civ6 farms (and likely water tiles) produce a lot of food in hte second part of the game. The trick is - you also need housing to have large cities, so suburbs are also needed.

So having tiles used for Chateaus, for Wonders, for Luxury resources and for Districts looks like a lot of pain. Some planning need to be involved. Also, it's interesting whether we could feed a city through trade routes somehow.
 
2)Now I'm hoping that Egypt and China are my neighboors when playing France so I can use my...

Uh... Why? They're early era civs which would be threaten to France.
 
It looks like in Civ6 farms (and likely water tiles) produce a lot of food in hte second part of the game. The trick is - you also need housing to have large cities, so suburbs are also needed.

So having tiles used for Chateaus, for Wonders, for Luxury resources and for Districts looks like a lot of pain. Some planning need to be involved. Also, it's interesting whether we could feed a city through trade routes somehow.

I have to believe that Chateaux have some kind of housing number. More than farms, at any rate.
 
I don't think it will prevent me from playing Catherine de Medici, but the "most powerful European queen of the 16th century" bit was indeed peculiar.

Well, England wasn't very powerfull in the 16th Century compared to France. That's for sure.
 
Well, England wasn't very powerfull in the 16th Century compared to France. That's for sure.

If I recall correctly, in 16th century (at least early 16th) France had four times higher population than England (around 16 to 4 millions) so...
 
Only complaint about France is that their Chateau needing to be next to rivers and being boosted when adjacent next to wonders seems VERY similar to Egypt's wonder production being boosted when next to rivers and the Sphinx being boosted when adjacent to those wonders

It does seem like they are making combinations of the different bonus, as the UU for US and France both get combat bonus on own continent.



It kinda kills the extra combat bonus modifiers if everyone has them:
imagine US, France and China on the same continent, with the French garde and a rough rider attacking a Chinese soldier on the wall ... that kinda eliminates everyones bonus and they all become kinda common units... maybe not so fun
 
Yes but its because she is looking up and to her left in the still. The magic of lighting

Spoiler :
qaJZJds.gif

I just checked, its definitely a totally different chin.
 
The liquid seems a bit too viscous to me, if we go down that road. Looks like she has blood in the glass rather than wine. :eek:


I disagree with that. I think the fact that they go out of their way to find obscure female leaders just because they are female undermines the female leaders that actually can appear due to their legacy and not just due to their gender.

This +1000

Over-representing females is not a good thing. It`s revisionist history througha feminist lens rather than actual history.
 
It does seem like they are making combinations of the different bonus, as the UU for US and France both get combat bonus on own continent.

It kinda kills the extra combat bonus modifiers if everyone has them:
imagine US, France and China on the same continent, with the French garde and a rough rider attacking a Chinese soldier on the wall ... that kinda eliminates everyones bonus and they all become kinda common units... maybe not so fun

If I did have a major complaint about the Civs revealed so far, it would be that: so far it's all been about "which continent am I on" and "building wonders faster and taking care when positioning them". Some of the leader abilities have been a little more unique than that (Japan/Hojo have the most interesting combo I've seen so far, if just because they're largely unique and don't focus on either continents or wonders, though the Aztecs are also pretty neat). They seem to be repeating themselves with these bonuses a lot and only changing things slightly. I hope the rest of the leaders have more diverse focuses.
 
If I did have a major complaint about the Civs revealed so far, it would be that: so far it's all been about "which continent am I on" and "building wonders faster and taking care when positioning them". Some of the leader abilities have been a little more unique than that (Japan/Hojo have the most interesting combo I've seen so far, if just because they're largely unique and don't focus on either continents or wonders, though the Aztecs are also pretty neat). They seem to be repeating themselves with these bonuses a lot and only changing things slightly. I hope the rest of the leaders have more diverse focuses.

They have about twice as many bonuses as in Civ5. Of course developers have to reiterate on them somehow. The good thing is - even if bonuses look similar, they lead to quite different gameplay.
 
They have about twice as many bonuses as in Civ5. Of course developers have to reiterate on them somehow. The good thing is - even if bonuses look similar, they lead to quite different gameplay.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. We've seen less than half of the 18 release leaders so far (still unsure if Monty counts towards the 18), and they're already repeating themselves a lot. I don't think it's too much to hope for a little more diversity among the remaining roster. I'm going to be disappointed if there's another UU that's just "stronger on home/different continent"!
 
Sorry, I'm not buying it. We've seen less than half of the 18 release leaders so far (still unsure if Monty counts towards the 18), and they're already repeating themselves a lot. I don't think it's too much to hope for a little more diversity among the remaining roster. I'm going to be disappointed if there's another UU that's just "stronger on home/different continent"!

The civilizations we've seen are picked heavily for their abilities. We didn't see anything related to religion or great people, for example.
 
Anyone who's still on the fact that they went out of their way to find some obscure French female leader to include just because she's a woman and they have some sort of quota to fulfill is repeatedly ignoring the fact that Ed Beach, quite simply, is a fan of Catherine de'Medicci.

That's all the reason you need. If I designed a civ game I'd put Henry the Navigator as the leader for Portugal and he never actually ruled the country either, just like Gandhi and the many other leaders that have existed in this franchise who's claim to rulership could be questioned. But Henry would be a cool leader and I'm a big fan of him. So I'd put him in charge of Portugal if I was behind the helm of a civ game.

Ed is behind the helm of civ6, he likes Catherine. He picked Catherine. Deal with it.
 
Let me start by saying, I'm not knowledgeable about Portuguese history but I just want to point out some logical inconsistencies.

First you say,

"There are a handful of kings that could have been chosen that would make total sense, yet no one can rationally look at the choice of Maria I as nothing more than "we need more female leaders, let's put her in the game". "

Then you say

"Your reply baffles me, for I do not dislike Maria I as Portugal leader in Civ5 because she's a woman. I dislike her being chosen because there were choices much more interesting and relevant. Just that. "

Those statements are not mutually contradictory. People keep confusing "I don't like that they only chose her because she's female" with "I don't like her because she's female".

It's perfectly possible to like the selection of (to use Civ V for examples) Elizabeth, Isabella, and Catherine the Great because they were important, powerful, and iconic rulers, while simultaneously thinking Maria I was a poor choice and suspecting that she was only chosen to fill some quota of female leaders.

Of course we can't prove that they deliberately picked Maria I over more important, iconic, etc. Portuguese leaders like Afonso I, João II, Manuel I, João IV, or the Marquis of Pombal simply because they wanted another female leader. Maybe someone on the dev team just had a strong interest in the Napoleonic era. Maybe they thought it was interesting to note that her reign began the first and only time in history a European country was ruled from a capital city in the Americas, and they didn't stop to think about whether the ruler who fled Portugal to hide in Brazil was really the best face to use as the game's representative of Portugal.

Or maybe they just wanted another female leader, browsed through a list of Portuguese monarchs, saw the name "Maria", and figured she'd do. Considering how ineffectual a ruler she was, and how bad a representative of Portugal she is, it would be perfectly reasonable to object to that without having any actual objection to her being female. If she had turned out to be a great leader on the level of Isabella or Elizabeth, what objection would there be to her inclusion?

I don't think most people would be happy if, out of all the monarchs and lords protector and prime ministers England has had, they selected King John as the face of England in the game. Maria I feels more like a Portuguese King John than a Portuguese Elizabeth. Her inclusion was a poor choice and a bad hand dealt to Portugal. And if it is actually true that they picked her because of some quota of female leaders, then her selection was kind of insulting to women as well. It's like they were saying, "There haven't been all that many actually good female rulers, but we want to represent you ladies, so we're willing to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find any women we can to make sure you don't get underrepresented!" I'm not a woman, and I don't consider myself competent to be offended on behalf of those who are, but come on now. If that's the best female ruler you can find for Portugal, then just bite the bullet and admit that Portugal is not the right civ to give a female ruler to.

As for Catherine de Medici, we already know that Ed Beach has a particular interest in her time period, and in her specifically. I don't think her selection was because she was female. I think it was because Beach is fascinated with her and thought it would be fun to have her in the "big personalities" incarnation of the Civ series. There are other leaders I'd have chosen before her, personally, but I don't have any particular objection to her.

(And to those people who say Joan of Arc would have been a better female option . . . how do you say "Ugh" in French? Joan of Arc is a perfectly fine choice for a Great Person, but not for the leader of the civ itself. In fact, when she was the female option for Civ II--the one that had a male and female option for every civ--as soon as I learned that it was possible to go into the system files and rewrite in-game text, the first thing I did was change the French female option from her to--wait for it--Catherine de Medici. She may not have ever been queen regnant--French succession laws were very clear that there would never be one of those--but at least she was an active agent in the actual running of the French state. That's more than Joan of Arc can say.)
 
I just loved the choice of Catherine de Medici. I will love to hate her in CIV6. The more snobbish she is in this game, the better. Even the theories that are emerging here talking about the reasons they have chosen her makes me love her more.
 
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