France Demigod

[Mike Hussey]

Roster:

1. Calis [played]
2. Daeron [played]
3. goodsmell [skipped]
4. del62 [UP]
5. CommandoBob [hwaiting]
6. Mike Hussey [hwaiting]
7. Equatore [hwaiting]

Hey guys, in response to the previous thread having too many players and some wanting a non-variant game I've rolled a start:

Settings:
Civ: France
Map: Pangaea, wet, 4 billion years old
Barbarians: Sedentary
Difficulty: Demigod



So who's interested? It's my first game so be gentle

 

[goodsmell]

wow, Demigod, never played this level guys .
about the non-AW variant, let's try to come up with some idea, some special rules or something .
like we never declare war, but we can 'remove your troops or declare war', so it makes the AI to declare . or some trading rules .

 

[del62]

I am definately interested, but I am not keen on special rules, I think the most important thing is having a target victory condition and making sure we do not ruin our reputation

 

[Mike Hussey]

Yeah to be honest neither am I. Let's just start with a standard game and for future games we can progress to variants. This particular one has all victory conditions enabled (minus the wonder one). So I'm thinking just a standard early REX, conquer a few civs (but not with all out war constant war). So a balance of growing the empire militarily and also some periods of consolidation to build a science/commercial powerhouse. How does that sound?

And yes we should definitely follow the standard SG rules of reputation is golden etc etc.

And btw I usually play on emperor and never have beaten or even tried demigod so gonna need some help with this one?

 

[Calis]

I'd be interested to play.

What is the map size and how many opponents do we have?

I consider demigod as my comfort level. I've done several DG domination and conquest games for the HoF.

 

[del62]

Mike I would be happy to have someone of Calis experience on board

Some questions

What do you think about first tech, writing at 275 beakers at 100% (for slingshot) or possibly pottery at a quarter of the cost? The rivers should give us lots of trade

Would you move worker onto hill to look around before settling

Is the settler on bonus grass (I cant tell from picture)

Would it be best to mine bg or irrigate flood plains early

 

[goodsmell]

Okay standart game, with conquest condition victory ?
I'm not sure about the difficulty, never played Demigod . . .

 

[Calis]

Mike I would be happy to have someone of Calis experience on board

Some questions

What do you think about first tech, writing at 275 beakers at 100% (for slingshot) or possibly pottery at a quarter of the cost? The rivers should give us lots of trade

Would you move worker onto hill to look around before settling

Is the settler on bonus grass (I cant tell from picture)

Would it be best to mine bg or irrigate flood plains early

As France, we should definately try the Republic slingshot. It's very well possible on DG. But that also depends on our opponents. Are there any civs starting with Alphabet?

The settler is on BG, yes.

I'd settle the grassland NW of the current position and let the worker start mining the current tile. After that he can concentrate on the FP. As France is industrious mining is only 4 turns, plus road 6 in total. But we would not waste the move.

But probably we should wait till the game started with the discussion

 

[Lanzelot]

I already told Overseer, I'd play in the Germany AW game, so will probably not play here. However if that one is full (hard to tell at the moment... so many people have posted there, and it's not clear who's still on the roster and who moved to this one here... ), then I'd like to join here.

Anyway, highly interesting start position! Floodplain starts are always very difficult to play. Yes, it looks like the settler is on a BG, so an idea would be to move it 1 NW and let the worker start mining where it is. Normally I would prefer to irrigate a floodplain first, but why loose a turn if the worker is already sitting on an equally decent square? The extra shields will be very useful in a floodplain start.

Lanzelot

Edit: cross-post with Calis. Looks like we had the same idea here...

 

[Sparthage]

I would play but as I normally play on Monarch I'd get my butt seriously kicked. Good luck though!

 

[Daeron]

Sign me up.

Floodplain starts without wheat always are a chore and there's probably quite some deserts to the SW.

 

[CommandoBob]

DemiGod is way about my comfort level, but it is time for this old dog to learn some new tricks, if you'll have me.

Random Thoughts
What are the AI advantages at this level?

At Monarch, where I normally live, I'm comfortable with all the VCs. At DG, I dunno. Since we are France, a 100K Culture victory is probably not an option (no cheap culture buildings), though a 20K Culture city could be done.

I'm okay with a Conquest VC but I do have first time jitters with it!

 

[darski]

lurker's comment: signing in for another good read... there's no doubt about that.

I like to see others stretch their Civ wings even though I dont do it. Good luck team!

 

[Optional]

Good to see this SG get its own thread! Maybe a bit bold to slap 'France' and 'Demigod' on it already, as it might give people the feeling that these things can't be discussed anymore. What often happens in the beginning of an SG is that things are going too fast, without enough consultation with the team.
Nothing wrong with the chosen parameters, but it's probably best to not consider them as final yet. From a practical point of view it's still easy to change things at this moment. Like if there are a few people who find the difficulty level a bit high, you can still adjust that. You can even go inbetween Emperor and Demigod if you would so wish - probably even while keeping exactly the same start position.

Also there were a few players who expressed a wish for a variant; Goodsmell mentioned 5CC and Daeron mentioned passive. Both variants mean a fairly peaceful approach to the game. You shouldn't choose a strict variant, because there also were a few players who didn't want a variant, but you could maybe have suggested a mild variant that wouldn't change much to the default game - something like no declaration of war. Since the AI will make a lot of demands anyway and because there are tricks to make them declare it wouldn't have been all that different from a standard game, but still a reasonable compromise, perhaps. It's just an example, you know, I'm not saying you should have done exactly that.
Please don't take these remarks as criticism, they're not meant in a bad way.

What are the AI advantages at this level?

Well, they get a it more of everything they already get, but most importantly they get an extra settler. That alone is already a 100% boost over Emperor, and it means you'll almost certainly get out-expanded now. Expect a tough start on Pangaea with a central start position.

I'll probably let this SG pass me by, because there are enough players anyway.

 

[Calis]

Random Thoughts
What are the AI advantages at this level?

I can't tell you precise numbers, but the AI starts with two settlers and several defensive and offensive units. Furthermore it has some production advantages. Once I had a link to a thread where all figures were mentioned in detail...

At Monarch, where I normally live, I'm comfortable with all the VCs. At DG, I dunno. Since we are France, a 100K Culture victory is probably not an option (no cheap culture buildings), though a 20K Culture city could be done.

I'd vote against 100K. For my taste far too much MMing for a SG. 20K would also not be on my list, but ok.

All others are fine by me.

France is far away from being my favorite civ, but the industrial and commercial traits are good for all but the cultural VCs.

 

[Daeron]

First of, Optional is probably right that it´s not a bad idea to first discuss what kind of game we want to play. Demi-God is still a challenge for me, so I don't mind playing with only clean rep and a VC in mind.

On the French start:
The start location looks pretty central, of course, bit early to tell. France starts with alphabet, so I would start with pottery, just in case we can't trade for it and then head straight for philosophy. Maybe even sell philosophy if we're pretty certain we'll get there first. I've often managed to buy code of law that way, right when I got philosophy. Civs like Germany tend to go for it.

Anyway, that´s all moot at this point.

The biggest question is where to move the settler. According to CAII, the forest NE of the settler hides a BG. Moving the worker on the hill is probably not a bad idea, but unless there´s a cow or deer somewhere the settler will probably end up 1 tile NW.

 

[Calis]

The biggest question is where to move the settler. According to CAII, the forest NE of the settler hides a BG. Moving the worker on the hill is probably not a bad idea, but unless there´s a cow or deer somewhere the settler will probably end up 1 tile NW.

It's rather unlikely to uncover a cow to the west, as it seems there is mainly desert/fp to the west.

 

[Aabraxan]

lurker's comment: Good luck, team! Having only won 1 DG game, I'm hardly an expert, but . . . In the C3C Info center, Section 16 is difficulty levels. I think the AI builds at 60% cost (IIRC), and starts with an extra settler. Maybe some other units, too, like Calis mentioned. If I were going to play this SG, my big concern would be that it's DG and a pan map. Having it in an SG will mitigate some of the difficulty, but I think that the pan map will give you a pretty fast tech pace. On the up side, having Masonry and Alpha to start with gives you a good run at the slingshot, as well as the ability to prebuild early.

 

[vmxa]

DG Vs Emp

Def units 6 rather than 4
Off units 3 rather than 2

Those units will be based on the civs starting techs, so Germany starts with 4 spears and 2 archers at emperor and 6 spears and 3 archers at DG.

Workers 2 extra, rather than 1 extra. This means in addition to the one everyone starts with.
Settlers 1 extra, rather than just the one everyone starts with.

Extra free unit support 12, rather than 8. This cumulative with what you get for the given form of government.
Bonus for each city 3, rather than 2. This is more free support based on government.

Gov transition is 2, rather than 3. This is the max turns required for anarchy when switching.

Cost Factor 7, rather than 8 applied to growth, shields and research. Players is always 10 at all levels. So they pay 70% of true cost. A 200 shield wonder requires them to spend 140 shields.

AI to AI trade 160, rather than 150. This means that the offer of 100 gold from the ai to another ai is treated as if it was 160. In effect driving frequency of trades up.

Born content is the same above Monarch.

Barb bonus 25, rather than 50 and levels above are zero. The net effect here imo is to make barbs a thing to be avoided with less than a sword, if you can.

OCN 70, rather than 80. OCN for a given map is 70% for its size.

 

[Mike Hussey]

I thought you guys would want a challenge! You know in terms of we as a team can discuss and overcome challenges so it'll make it a bit more fun and more of a learning experience for everyone.

So we've come to a consensus about the victory condition and clean reputation which is good.

About the start we can definitely roll more or change some of the parameters. Currently it sits at standard map with 8 opponents. I thought pangaea would encourage a bit more warfare so there'd be more happening and more to do as the turns progress, but we can change if you guys want.

So are these the players interested:

1. goodsmell
2. del62
3. Calis
4. Daeron
5. CommandoBob
6. Mike Hussey

Please tell me if I've missed anyone.

As for the variant yes we could think of one, but hopefully not change the game fundamentally. Your thoughts?

With this start my thoughts are initially settler to the hill to 'remove' a lesser useful tile, the hill, and then worker on floodplain to the irrigate and try to get 5fpt? And then go max pottery (if we don't have enough food already with the floodplains) or Republic slingshot sounds good too since we start with alphabet.