Free tech or Wonder?

[ZippyRiver]

I just completed my first great person (engineer) and am perplexed at the best use for him.

I can either use him to get machinery and be the first with crossbows, or I can complete the Colossus.

I am playing a financial civ, and the thought of 4 gold per water tile is certainly tempting, although at the moment I am not working those tiles. I would be a nice boon in a little bit. Currently civ wide, I only have about 7 water tiles. But future expansion (could) have quite a bit of seaside cities. Certainly a tempting project. However, the only city I have right now that can build it is not a production city and i was not lucky enough to get any copper. It would take about 40 turns to complete normally, and I am sure the AI would beat me to it. Even if I stagnate the growth, not wure I could shave enough turns off of it to actually see it's completion. 250 hammers in that city is a lot at this point in time.

Or, I can use it to get machinery and crossbows. I started on a penisula and my most immidiate neighbor is Isabella. I have already had spat with her over eating an early warrior (we have no religion, we eat everything). I do have a good production city and could amass a swordsman/crossbow/chariot army is those same 40 or so turns, at least enough to BBQ spain early on. I certainly do not want her to get powerfull (go figure that).

Gold or guns........... What are your thoughts.

Have you had any similar perplexing decisions to make regarding the use of great ppl?

 

[Exavier]

Personally i'd pass on the colossus... it goes obsolete way 2 fast. Though i would say save the great engineer for another wonder. after all even late game wonders it can pay for about half the wonder.

I have never really seen a reason to use Great People for techs...
Engineers - Wonder or +3 Hammer +6 breaker Supercitizen
Scientist - Academy or Scientist Supercitizen
Priest - Holy City Wonder or +2 Hammer +5 coin Supercitizen
Merchant - I honestly have only saved these for Golden Ages
Artists - Culture Bomb or I usually use these for the other half of the Golden age cost

Just my opinion but those are the best uses for GPs... again just my opinion.

 

[Ani]

Ther merchants i have been using to gain coin. I have gotten from 1k to 2k cash from them, and that realy helps keeping the Science research up, or to speed up those buildings if you got the tech to finish with cash.

 

[ZippyRiver]

Obsoletion is funny thing I found. For instance if you build an obelisk(sp?). I noticed in my last game, that even after discovering calander it continued to produce 1 culture. So I am a little suspect at anything that states it becomes obsolete being only half right. After calander you can not build any new ones, but it seemed any in place continued to work. I got hammered that game, and did not have the oppertunity to see if other things suffered total obsoletion or not.

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

I would go for the wonder. Even after they are obsolete they continue to produce culture. This will give you thousands of culture in total.
http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?AL_DA_GREAT

 

[weimingshi]

great merchants in the most favourable condition can give 4k+ gold from trade mission

 

[Jass]

great merchants give one food as citizens. If it's still early in the game, I'll add them to my prophet producing city.

 

[panzooka]

great merchant, put it in city with lots lots of hills, but lacks food. +1 food from merchant really helps

 

[MrCynical]

I'd always use a great engineer for a wonder rather than a tech. Wonders will give you lots of culture, and also increase your chance of future great people. If you don't want the Colossus (which can be very good if you're using a lot of sea squares), then I'd hang on to the engineer till you invent a wonder you want. Early crossbowmen aren't that great an advantage, and machinery doesn't take that long to research to start with.

 

[ZippyRiver]

True, and machinery will always be available.

Just a little shell shocked from my last game were Isabella showed up with about 100 units. Wanna kill her asap. That and she has "the Mississippi" running through her land. lol. I can deal with her using swordsmen and chariots.

 

[Hells_Hammers]

For instance if you build an obelisk(sp?). I noticed in my last game, that even after discovering calander it continued to produce 1 culture.

The Civ IV manual states that Wonders and improvements such as obelisks will always produce culture points, even if their other characteristics become obsolete. It makes sense really; in reality, the Great Wall of China is today useless as a defense mechanism, but has a high cultural value and generates a lot of tourism.

 

[Sexton]

Just a little shell shocked from my last game were Isabella showed up with about 100 units. Wanna kill her asap. That and she has "the Mississippi" running through her land. lol. I can deal with her using swordsmen and chariots.

Riiiiiiiiiiight... I didn't understand a word

 

[Thalassicus]

Engineers are best used for wonders. It might take 10-15 turns at most to research a technology, but the wonders from the medieval age on can easily take twice that. So the way I look at it, you're saving more turns using the engineer on a wonder.

I'd save an early engineer to use on the Great Library. If you've already built that, save it for some of the expensive midgame wonders, like the Notre Dame or Versailles.

Also, if you're Industrious and got Metal Casting for forges, the Colossus won't go obsolete for a long time. It usually lasts about half the game in the games I play. Only get it if more than a third or so of your empire is strong coastal cities, though, and it's so cheap with copper there's no reason to use an engineer on it.

 

[ZippyRiver]

Yeah, but I was not lucky enough to have any copper at all. I also have very forests spawned so was not able to chop it. I decided to save it for future use. I also threw the Colossus in the queue, reorganized my population, and gambled on the 17 turns (one growth and engineer specialist helped a little). Figured if I got beat, I could use the cash anyway. I did get it built much to my supprize.

Sexton.....? what part didn't you understand?
I know from reading on the board, and my last game, that Isabella is very agressive and likes to show up unannounced for dinner with all her family. I do not want to worry about that later, so I choose to keep her under foot now while I have the upper hand. As for the river, it's a purdy thang, twisting and winding through a heavly forested area. About 15 tiles worth of river. Would like to add her distinctiveness to my own

 

[Padmewan]

The Civ IV manual states that Wonders and improvements such as obelisks will always produce culture points, even if their other characteristics become obsolete.

Right... but isn't the ONLY point of the obelisk to produce culture?

 

[Khaim]

So the Obelisk doesn't really go obsolete, no. You can't build it afterwards, though. Not that you'd want to; by then you can build theaters etc if you need a bit of culture.

 

[TBox]

This bit about obelisk is very good news for me, I was avoiding them. (foolishly, it appears.) Now, do monasteries still give research after scientific method?

As for colossus lasting half the game, my problem with colossus is that it's *navigation* that obsoletes it, and I play on the Continents map. I find that the first civ to dominate the subcontinental islands on the continents map is usually in the best position, so the cognitive dissonance is a little too strong for me to like Colossus.

 

[Artanis]

I'm pretty sure Monastaries keep giving the research bonus, yes.

 

[Thalassicus]

No, the culture and ability to build missionaries from that city remain, but the science bonus is made obsolete. So you might want to avoid Sci Method for a while, in order to get the most out of your monastaries.

On the other hand, the tech right after it is Physics, which gives a free Great Scientist. So whoever researches it first does get something in compensation, but otherwise I usually don't get those techs until I need oil revealed, since I typically have 3-4 Monastaries in every city Losing 30% of your research output can be hard. If you don't have many religions in your empire, however, it's worth it to beeline to Physics.

 

[NinjaGnat]

I can recall one situation where I've used a Great Engineer to discover a technology. It was in the Renaissance, and the cultural wonders didn't interest me. I looked at the tech, "gunpowder" then looked at my leader, "Peter," put two and two together and got Cossacks 10 turns earlier than I would have otherwise. Great Engineers have nice military inducing techs, which makes it a nice trade-off for a free wonder, especially if said wonder is built in a nearby rival town.