French Lower House passes tighter immgration laws

[Pasi Nurminen]

I'm confused then as to why that's necessary; was there a law on the books previously that granted immunity to immigrants from French constitution and laws?

 

[Elrohir]

I never thought I'd hear myself say "Good for France; why can't we do the same?". Sad.

 

[Steph]

I'm confused then as to why that's necessary; was there a law on the books previously that granted immunity to immigrants from French constitution and laws?

No. But we made a big mistake regarding immigration. We were so full of ourselves we thought are values and principles were so great that any immigrant would immediately adopt them... Even if they didn't knew it.
Recently, we have created a new "contract" for immigrants. We provide them with free French training course and basic French laws and customs presentation, and they agree to respect our laws and get their immigration cards.
It's mostly to avoid having people who do not respect our laws, because of ignorance, and are still following the laws and/or customs of their country of origin.

 

[MamboJoel]

Yes, keep in mind France has an old secular republican approach that is quite different from the anglosaxon one. That would sound like :

Communautarisme, the forming of ethnic or religious communities separate from mainstream life, though present, is considered undesirable. French people in general are opposed to clerical power and its influence in policy; the separation of religion from government power is legally referred to as laïcité. French politicians, with the exception of a few right-wing politicians such as Christine Boutin, generally do not discuss their religious positions, and do not use religious arguments in political advocacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_France

 

[Winner]

However, from a foreign point of view, I understand this law may be shocking.
As the president of Senegal said yesterday
"I spent 40% of my budget into education, because I think educated people is the key for long term development of my country. But I don't want the people I invested on to go to France afterward. Or I could send the bill to France and ask them to refund the cost of educating the people who emigrate there".

So what? US is draining brains from Europe in outrageous number, so we have to replentish them from other sources.

 

[Steph]

So what? US is draining brains from Europe in outrageous number, so we have to replentish them from other sources.

I don't say we shouldn't, I support this law. I say I understand why the government of the countries of originin may not like it.

 

[Winner]

We have problems with the integration of certain groups of people from the Mid East. These have to do with poverty and lack of education. Religions rates as a non- to minuscule issue.

But that is simply not true. And it is not about the religion itself, it is about the culture based on that religion, which is profoundly different. Muslims in Europe want to keep their customs, their values and they refuse to accept ours. That's not a good beginning.

The worst thing is, that the most radical islamists are 3rd generation Muslim immigrants. This proves only that the current approach to immigration is completely wrong. We're creating a large community of people retaining the habits, customs, religion, culture and often even the language of their country of origin. This cannot benefit Europe in any way.

Whe have exactly the same problems with the dirt poor Christians turning up as with the Muslims. It's not religion doing it.

Poor Eastern Europeans are always assimilating much faster, they work much harder and they don't want to change their new country into some mini-Eastern Europe. Why is that? Because of culture - is it so hard to understand? When you took milk and water and pour them into one bucket, they mix up. When you took oil and water, they don't mix up.

Islamic culture is oil and European culture is water. When you try to mix them, you just make an oil spot on the surface. History is full of examples.

And I see no reason to revel in the ignorance and bigotry of the dominant European national culture.

What on Earth does this have to do with arrogance and bigotry? It is our duty to feed all of the world's hungry, shelter all of the world's homeless and heal all of the world's sick? No, it isn't!

We simply can't afford to be the good samaritan in the world, where the good samaritans are shot on sight. Every country has the right to set criteria for what people it wants. Europe needs educated people, who will benefit Europe. Europe doesn't need poor uneducated and unemployed masses living in mini-Africas all over the Europe.

Read this, I am sure it will provide you with some information about this issue. BTW, it is not conservative opinion, in fact very liberal one and I don't agree with its conclusion. But the facts are clearly presented there:

http://www.twq.com/04summer/docs/04summer_savage.pdf

 

[Winner]

I don't say we shouldn't, I support this law. I say I understand why the government of the countries of originin may not like it.

Well, Czech rep. has the same problem with Western Europe, but there is simply nothing we can do about that, before we become richer. Still, we have some pretty good science work behind us, nothing what will change the world, but it isn't as bad as it could (and should) be.

African countries should at first make a corruptionless, stable enviroment and then, their economies will prosper. Africa received three times as much as Europe did after WW2 on aid, but somehow it doesn't seem to help. Where is the problem...

 

[Steph]

African countries should at first make a corruptionless, stable enviroment and then, their economies will prosper. Africa received three times as much as Europe did after WW2 on aid, but somehow it doesn't seem to help. Where is the problem...

An African minister of transportation is visiting is French counterpart. They get along well, and the French invite the African for the week end in his own house. The house is a small manor, very very nice. The African is surprised "how can you afford it?" The French take the African to the back of the garden, and say
-"Do you see the highway over there?"
-"Yes"
-"I kept 10% and the financing for myself".

The next year, the French goes to Africa, the African invites him. His house is a small palace, with gold and marble everywhere.
The French is surprised "how can you afford it? I thought your country was poor". The African take him to the back of the park.
-"Can you see the highway over there, financed from international aid?"
-"No".
-"That's the trick"

 

[Winner]

An African minister of transportation is visiting is French counterpart. They get along well, and the French invite the African for the week end in his own house. The house is a small manor, very very nice. The African is surprised "how can you afford it?" The French take the African to the back of the garden, and say
-"Do you see the highway over there?"
-"Yes"
-"I kept 10% and the financing for myself".

The next year, the French goes to Africa, the African invites him. His house is a small palace, with gold and marble everywhere.
The French is surprised "how can you afford it? I thought your country was poor". The African take him to the back of the park.
-"Can you see the highway over there, financed from international aid?"
-"No".
-"That's the trick"

 

[Winner]

BTW there is one other thing I forgot to mention - the economic migrants to richer countries usually support their families back home from their salaries. African countries are thought to get millions of euros every year from such channels.

The same in here - there are many Ukrainians doing the jobs Czechs wouldn't even think of, working very hard for miserable salaries of which one half is stolen by their gangsters, but it is still enough for them to keep their families back home alive and in relatively good shape.

The Africans working in Europe are doing the same thing. They earn more money here than they would ever earn in Africa, and part of this profit is sent back to Africa. I'd say it's mutually beneficial.

 

[HannibalBarka]

But that is simply not true. And it is not about the religion itself, it is about the culture based on that religion, which is profoundly different. Muslims in Europe want to keep their customs, their values and they refuse to accept ours. That's not a good beginning.
The worst thing is, that the most radical islamists are 3rd generation Muslim immigrants. This proves only that the current approach to immigration is completely wrong. We're creating a large community of people retaining the habits, customs, religion, culture and often even the language of their country of origin. This cannot benefit Europe in any way.

That is just plain bs. Every study made in France demonstraded that french born from a north african heritage have french as their first language, aren't more religious than the average french, do not make more babies. The only difference is that inter-ethnic marriage is more common between an french-arab boy and a girl outside its "community" than the other way around.

Poor Eastern Europeans are always assimilating much faster, they work much harder and they don't want to change their new country into some mini-Eastern Europe.

Here it goes. I know that you may hide your racist opinion about muslims behind "I'm not saying they inferior,I just think they are different", where you actually think "They are lazy bas....". What makes you think "Poor Eastern Europeans work much harder " ? the ones I see are sure working much harder, all night long, barely clothed , when they aren't killing poor belgian kids for a cell phone

 

[Steph]

the ones I see are sure working much harder, all night long, barely clothed

Might we know what you are doing at night to see hard working barely clothed eastern Europeans ?

 

[HannibalBarka]

Might we know what you are doing at night to see hard working barely clothed eastern Europeans ?

driving back home after a long day of trading

 

[Steph]

You are trading hard working barely clothed eastern Europeans

Mais que fait la police!

 

[HannibalBarka]

You are trading hard working barely clothed eastern Europeans
Mais que fait la police!

Didn't thought about trading those on the second market, but now that you gave me the idea, hemmmmmmm, why not

 

[Bozo Erectus]

French Lower House passes tighter immgration laws

Is this really noteworthy? We all know that as soon as the immigrants start protesting and setting cars on fire, the French government will immediately reverse itself and repeal the law.

 

[Verbose]

Is this really noteworthy? We all know that as soon as the immigrants start protesting and setting cars on fire, the French government will immediately reverse itself and repeal the law.

You don't recognise the difference between immigrants and citizens?

 

[Bozo Erectus]

You don't recognise the difference between immigrants and citizens?

I think I do. Why what do you mean exactly

 

[Yeeek]

What you are refering to happened with french citizen, not immigrants in irregularity.