[GS] Frigates now require 13 nitre?

[Lily_Lancer]

That's pretty a lot. Also, you cannot beeline Square Rigging and must research military engineering first.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

You do know that strategic resources and units that require it get a rework?
Resources now will be stockpiled and each resource will give some per turn. I actually expect that you already noticed this, if so, do you consider this (13 niter for 1 frigate) too much?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

You do know that strategic resources and units that require it get a rework?
Resources now will be stockpiled and each resource will give some per turn. I actually expect that you already noticed this, if so, do you consider this (13 niter for 1 frigate) too much?

The requirement itself changes the tech line.
You shall first research nitre, then mine it until it reaches 13, and finally you can upgrade a frigate. And only one, you have to wait for another 13 nitre to upgrade another frigate.
That will make frigates come much slower on sea maps than simply beeline it, especially fleets of frigates.

Previously frigates don't require nitre.

 

[Leyrann]

13 at quick speed, so probably 20 at standard speed.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

13 at quick speed, so probably 20 at standard speed.

How about other units? It seems that there is a big change. Also, how about upgrades or encampments do?

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

It does apply to all units that require strategic resources and also for upgrading them. Also some changes to coal and oil due to new game mechanics, electricity and global warming.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

[Sarcasm mode]
What, so we won't be able to rush Frigates to crush the clueless AI with cannon equipped ships that we built without knowing how to make gunpowder .....
Oh the horror, oh the shame ... that will ruin the game.
[/Sarcasm mode]

I think it makes perfect sense that we need nitre for any unit using gunpowder and slowing down access to one of the most overpowered renaissance era units is hardly a bad thing. Hopefully we'll see more of those changes that will put "soft prerequisites" on techs to slow down the military snowball.

Finally, we don't know how long it will take to accumulate 13 nitre so it's too early to complain.

 

[stealth_nsk]

1. Speculating about balance in completely new game mechanics is quite unsubstantial.
2. Speculating about balance 3 months before release is a bit preliminary.

We have to wait and see how it would play out in real games. I'm quite concerned about balance with different Size/Speed/Map type for this, but only because civ games were weak at this type of balance before. Standard/Standard/Continents should work fine.

 

[kryat]

How about other units? It seems that there is a big change. Also, how about upgrades or encampments do?

This is the new bottleneck. You’ll need 20 iron before a single swordsman, or 20 horses before a single knight. To get 5 knights, you’ll need 100 horses. The turn count can be lessened by having multiple sources or by running policy cards that give you extra accumulation.

 

[AriochIV]

It appears from the videos that all of the units (that we've seen) cost 13 resources to build, but only 9 to upgrade. It was said that some of the later units also have a per-turn resource upkeep cost, but we haven't yet seen any examples.

It looks like a typical resource node yields 3 per turn, so it doesn't seem to me that these costs are unreasonably high.

 

[TomKQT]

As already said - it's too early to complain, because we know only very little about how it actually works.
Btw, it's even possible that you will be able to start building the unit that requires let's say 20 iron when you are already mining iron, but have only let's say 3. And you will need 20 to actually FINISH the unit. (So you wouldn't have to wait 5 turns to accumulate iron and then 10 turns to build the unit, but only 10 turns in total.)
Or it may be something completely different.

We will see.

 

[Siptah]

There are also cards that lessen the need for resources, at least for iron and horses. Presumably the exist for later resources as well.

I wonder when you pay these resources though. As soon as you click on the build button? Or when the unit is finished? What happens when you have to pay at the production start and you switch to something else?

Also, if 20 are needed per unit and you gain 2 per resource, it doesn‘t seem to high. There may be a short bottleneck when you want to upgrade to Knights, for example, but resources are available before units. I don‘t see a downside of this change. If nothing works, trade.

 

[Leyrann]

There are also cards that lessen the need for resources, at least for iron and horses. Presumably the exist for later resources as well.

I wonder when you pay these resources though. As soon as you click on the build button? Or when the unit is finished? What happens when you have to pay at the production start and you switch to something else?

If you have to pay at the start (I'd think paying at the end is more logical, compare also a game like Colonization), I'd assume it will get saved just like production gets saved.

 

[Siptah]

If you have to pay at the start (I'd think paying at the end is more logical, compare also a game like Colonization), I'd assume it will get saved just like production gets saved.

If you pay at the end, what happens if you cannot pay? No unit? Recompensation? Unit sticks in the build queue with 1 turn left?

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

If you have to pay at the start (I'd think paying at the end is more logical, compare also a game like Colonization), I'd assume it will get saved just like production gets saved.

I assume you will require the needed amount to start production. In that case it should be at the start.

 

[Leyrann]

If you pay at the end, what happens if you cannot pay? No unit? Recompensation? Unit sticks in the build queue with 1 turn left?

I'd assume it sticks with one turn left, and you can only finish it once you have the resources.

(that's how it worked in Civ IV: Colonization, by the way, though in that game you could buy the resources instead, which I suppose won't be possible here)

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

I hope there will also be a mechanic introduced, that should make it possible to get back (cancel production) part of the required resources if you do not wish to continue with producing that unit now or in the future anymore.

I'd assume it sticks with one turn left, and you can only finish it once you have the resources.

(that's how it worked in Civ IV: Colonization, by the way, though in that game you could buy the resources instead, which I suppose won't be possible here)

I did check the Hungary gameplay, at 29:15, the frigate is grayed out and there is a stockpile of 7 niter not enough for production of it. So apparently it requires the resources at start of the production. A bit later when the black army is chosen for production, the stockpile of horses drops from 39 to 26. So the resources are gone directly.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Thanks for checking. Sadly, while not the most realistic/interesting approach, it's the most obvious is easy to implement/understand so i'm not surprised they implemented it that way. It's the way it's implemented in most games with consumable strategics i've played (such as the "Endless" games).

 

[leandrombraz]

It appears from the videos that all of the units (that we've seen) cost 13 resources to build, but only 9 to upgrade. It was said that some of the later units also have a per-turn resource upkeep cost, but we haven't yet seen any examples.

It looks like a typical resource node yields 3 per turn, so it doesn't seem to me that these costs are unreasonably high.

I expect it to work like in Beyond Earth, where how much resource you get from a tile vary instead of being all the same, so one horse tile might give 3 per turn while other might give 5 per turn.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I can't wait to RECYCLE my swordsman to get back iron. Sorry guys, into the bins!