Frustrated with immortal

[jorissimo]

Can't open the save so I don't understand if the captured city is connected or not? Quite a big mistake if not.

I would likely not sacrifice the GG for super-medic, normal medic is fine for me and it's more important to get some lvl3 cats i.e. I'd attach to a bunch of cats trying to hit 10xp.

I'm afraid it's not. Really hadn't thought about that. But thanks for the GG tip, I was just going to make a super medic out of it. But highly promoted catapults sound tempting.

 

[pigswill]

I'd reckon that a GG medic is better value than 4 CR3 cats. CR3 is obviously an upgrade but by no means does it make cats super powerful and they'll still take losses. A GG Medic lasts a long time and speeds up your advance by healing up units in 1-2 turns rather than 2-4 turns.

 

[sampsa]

A GG Medic lasts a long time and speeds up your advance by healing up units in 1-2 turns rather than 2-4 turns.

Nah, wounded units can be left to heal and units at full health move. To me, GG medic is massively overrated and is not very valuable. I tend to make one with say 3rd GG or with cuirs.

 

[Fippy]

Or if you have mainly 3-4 xp units, spreading the warlord on 10 of them means a big boost for your army.
Shock Axe against counters..CR2 or accuracy cats (greatly improve the waiting time until city defenses are bombarded down)..
most surprise losses come from an unexpected counterattack, a general can help preventing them.

 

[Snowbird]

Nah, wounded units can be left to heal and units at full health move. To me, GG medic is massively overrated and is not very valuable. I tend to make one with say 3rd GG or with cuirs.

For cuirs war isn't GG too late to make difference either way? At that point main opposing stack is gone, cap is either fallen or will fall soon. Gathering 10 units with specific promo situation in range of GG might jus delay conquest.

So in my opinion GG is overvalued, since you often get something Woody III+medicI with experience spread. But it is not like in a typical situation a player can get so much better by doing something else.

 

[sampsa]

Yes, I don't think "super-healing" matters that much in cuir wars either. I just think XP is more valuable on siege so spreading XP is not worth that much on cuirs.

 

[Gumbolt]

I find GG useful in cuirs wars. On a bigger map i can have 60-70+ cuirs. I often have 4-5 GG used up. It just speeds up the recovery of injured units. Once cuirs are C2/C3 it makes little difference if it's only4 units out of 70 that get any bonus. By that point theology and other triats help you reach C2 on most units.1-2 settled GG in a unit pump can work well too.

 

[jorissimo]

T110

Spoiler :

Things are going smoothly. I attached the GG to a spear and promoted the whole stack. In the counteroffensive on Pyongyang I lost only one axe. Aside from that, I lost two cats taking Seoul. All with all I continue with minimal losses. Blue bad boys will be stomping around starting from next turn.

I made peace with the Aztecs, who gave me Meditation and Poly. They are plotting again, but the peace treaty will last another 6 turns or so. Managed to trade for Monarchy in exchange for Construction and Poly from Sitting Bull. Admittedly not the best deal but oh well. Just got Mono but I feel like now is not the best time to switch civics. Putting some research into Calendar to get a somewhat better trade from Charly, whom Ragnar declared on, btw.

I think I should be able to take most if not all of Korea before he gets Feudalism (I'm currently twice his power). I might have a chance after that with elephants, but I'm not keen on protective longbows. I will probably head for Wonsan next.

 

[Gumbolt]

Capital down is always good. Hopefully Monty not plotting against you. With higher power that should deter him.

 

[a pen-dragon]

As you had a peace treaty with Monty when he started plotting he can not be plotting on you.

Regarding switching civics, next turn you will get 4 elephants out. Apart from maybe a cat or two that should be ample for Wang. Thus I would switch after the units are out, into Monarchy since it directly benefits you and at the same time into OrgRel, since that does not add a turn to the revolution and will also benefit you a bit later.

Also I noticed that your medic is with your Army. IMHO this is a mistake, since you destroyed most of his units it is unlikely that your stack will be attacked, thus the medic should be with the units that are actually healing, i.e. in Pyongyang.

 

[jorissimo]

As you had a peace treaty with Monty when he started plotting he can not be plotting on you.

Regarding switching civics, next turn you will get 4 elephants out. Apart from maybe a cat or two that should be ample for Wang. Thus I would switch after the units are out, into Monarchy since it directly benefits you and at the same time into OrgRel, since that does not add a turn to the revolution and will also benefit you a bit later.

Also I noticed that your medic is with your Army. IMHO this is a mistake, since you destroyed most of his units it is unlikely that your stack will be attacked, thus the medic should be with the units that are actually healing, i.e. in Pyongyang.

Monty not being able to plot on me, that's what I needed to hear!

That's a good line of reasoning about the civic switches, will do that.

I was actually surprised to see that the units in Pyongyang were wounded, I'm not sure what happened there. I thought I had replenished it with some fresh units. Maybe they got attacked, but I would have seen that because I switched of quick combat on the defense.

 

[jorissimo]

T123

Spoiler :

Not a whole lot to say really. Destroyed Korea. Captured a bazillion workers. Laying down plantations and cottages on this gorgeous commerce land. Got calendar, currency, currently making my way to CS. Building a cheeky super late GLH in the Deer city. Also working halfheartedly on the Mausoleum in the capital, nice to get but failgold is fine too. Will settle the islands, which will be GREAT if I manage to get GLH.

Monty is still plotting and has a sizeable stack in Texcoco, which may however be destined for Charly. Anyway, I am moving my whole army down and he won't be able to do anything.

The game is not exactly won yet, but it has become a lot easier. Morale of the story: expand very early, attack if necessary and you won't be a laggard for the rest of the game. Feeling kinda like a gigachad having defended from Monty (which would have been a death sentence in a very recent past) and conquered all of Korea at the same time. Happy Friday!

 

[a pen-dragon]

This looks good. A few comments:

1) some AI are still missing cheap techs (Poly, Priesthood) these should be sold, getting you some money. Since the value of these trades is relatively low the happiness hit from trading with worst enemies will not be too bad. Right now you could easily make 260.

2) All your idle cities are producing science. Since modifiers do not act on direct production in most cases it is better to produce the yield where the average modifier in your empire is lower. Usually that means you want to build Wealth, not Science.

3) Pusan is getting culturally pressured by Charly. To avoid the city flipping some parts of your army should be placed there, and not at the border near Monty. (Since you are Creative and that looks to be a city that has only expanded borders into the third ring, you might be OK soon, but best not push your luck.)

4) Granaries should be whipped, especially in high-food, low-production cites like Wonsan.

5) Why are you spreading irrigation to Cheju? There are no resources and AFAIK this does not give the fresh water bonus.

6) This is more contentious, but I believe that you do not have very good odds to get the Mausoleum, building it is probably better than building Wealth, but currently your biggest priority is probably spreading the religion, and your capital is one of only few cities with that religion. It should probably be building missionaries. Only Angkor Wat is very slow.

7) The cities on the Islands should be up ASAP, since even without the GLH they have seafood and two trade routes, meaning they probably pay for themself even at size 1, thus 1-2 Galleys and 2 Settlers should be built/whipped.

 

[jorissimo]

This looks good. A few comments:

1) some AI are still missing cheap techs (Poly, Priesthood) these should be sold, getting you some money. Since the value of these trades is relatively low the happiness hit from trading with worst enemies will not be too bad. Right now you could easily make 260.

2) All your idle cities are producing science. Since modifiers do not act on direct production in most cases it is better to produce the yield where the average modifier in your empire is lower. Usually that means you want to build Wealth, not Science.

3) Pusan is getting culturally pressured by Charly. To avoid the city flipping some parts of your army should be placed there, and not at the border near Monty. (Since you are Creative and that looks to be a city that has only expanded borders into the third ring, you might be OK soon, but best not push your luck.)

4) Granaries should be whipped, especially in high-food, low-production cites like Wonsan.

5) Why are you spreading irrigation to Cheju? There are no resources and AFAIK this does not give the fresh water bonus.

6) This is more contentious, but I believe that you do not have very good odds to get the Mausoleum, building it is probably better than building Wealth, but currently your biggest priority is probably spreading the religion, and your capital is one of only few cities with that religion. It should probably be building missionaries. Only Angkor Wat is very slow.

7) The cities on the Islands should be up ASAP, since even without the GLH they have seafood and two trade routes, meaning they probably pay for themself even at size 1, thus 1-2 Galleys and 2 Settlers should be built/whipped.

Thanks for the tips! About the science building, I had been doing that since before currency and then I forgot to switch them to wealth afterwards. About the irrigation to Cheju, I figured that since it doesn't have any food resources, it would be the only way to grow it. But I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Fippy]

If SB accepts i would gift Cheju away, after chopping the 2 forests.
Keeping the Iron for Wonsan should be nps with Cre..and Cheju just costs gold imo.
Can also plunder the hamlet if / before you do that

 

[jorissimo]

If SB accepts i would gift Cheju away, after chopping the 2 forests.
Keeping the Iron for Wonsan should be nps with Cre..and Cheju just costs gold imo.
Can also plunder the hamlet if / before you do that

I kinda feel like letting that depend on finishing the GLH (long shot, but not impossible).

 

[jorissimo]

600 AD

Spoiler :

Missed the GLH by 1 turn to Ragnar (I would have whipped it the turn it showed up in his city in the Wonders screen). Admittedly not playing very optimally, slow in getting the island cities online (the barb galley infestation also didn't help and meant I had to wait til Metal Casting to really develop the islands). Decided to keep Cheju just because I'm greedy and irrational. Doing the forges into courthouses thing. Market in Pyongyang to try to get a GM. Monty had been plotting for like a millennium now, but he's so backward he won't be able to bother anyone. He demanded Alpha off me, which I gladly conceded. Long-term plan is cuirs I think, quick and dirty. I'm first in GNP and should win the Lib race. The best first target is probably Charly, take the strongest down first. But there's still a long way to go until then.

Edit: btw, isn't it crazy that my empire is basically a mirror image of China?

 

[sampsa]

It's not bad at all, but a few remarks that are important imo but you've been a bit casual with them

• improve the seafood immediately. It speeds up the development of the city tremendously. You had plenty of cities that can get out a 30 unit easily in time.
• have your religion in every (meaningful) city, especially since you are in org rel. And there is no excuse really, since you can 2-pop whip a missionary in any city.
• have a plan for . I think you are doing fine really if you now just keep growing and start a GA with Pyongyang-dude when you have access to pacifism. Otherwise I don't think lib is in the bag at all.
• growing in anticipation of the golden age and whipping buildings are not synergistic ideas, they are competing with each other and you can't really do both. I wouldn't build any markets or courthouses, probably no (more) forges even. It's because I know I will win quicker without any of those buildings. I understand that if you don't have a clear vision of when you will win you think the buildings are of great value, especially with org rel. But they won't win you the game.

So what I'd do now: Switch research to philo. Run two scientists in Pyongyang to speed it up. Pick 3 cities that have lots of food but can give cottages away and grow them to as big as possible before the GA (i.e. don't whip buildings in these). Then at philo start the golden age and get out from these cities, optimally from the weakest one first, sacrificing pop even. You have use for 3 GS (double bulb edu, single bulb liberalism) and rest of the are optimally GMs. Get as many as possible out during the GA (should be easy to get 4?). Conquer the map with cuirassiers and gg.

It's not the only way, I mean you can build buildings and even win space if you want I think. I know nothing about that.

 

[a pen-dragon]

On Immortal your current position should be sufficient for going to space, although that would be tough. If Charly or Huayna get any more cities your chances for this will plummet. If you want to try, after Lib go for Printing Press, Corporation, Communism and then directly beeline Computers. With 12 cities on Immortal the econ techs are probably more important than State property. (Get Rifling only if you are threatened.)

Now additionally I think that using your GS to build an Academy in 225 AD is too late. IMHO that one should have bulbed Philo, even if SB already had it. Philo is 1300, and your Academy is generating around 40/turn, while running 100% science. To get more beakers than from the Philo-bulb, you would need around 30 turns of science. You probably will not reach this before Lib, meaning that building the Academy instead of bulbing effectively has slowed your run for Lib.

Cheju is a poor city, it really should not have built any infrastructure, except maybe a granary. That would have gotten your Workboats earlier.

Rajavihara will take an eternity to build Moai, no matter the way you want to win this is a mistake.

Regarding Tech choices, due to your current lead probably Philo-Nat should come before going for Lib, to try for Taj, especially since there is Marble for trade. And ofc for .

 

[sampsa]

Now additionally I think that using your GS to build an Academy in 225 AD is too late. IMHO that one should have bulbed Philo, even if SB already had it. Philo is 1300, and your Academy is generating around 40/turn, while running 100% science.

Oh absolutely, I actually missed it was built so late. Academy is not for military games (unless PHI maybe). Nearly always my first bulbs philo, not for the religion but for the excellent civic it unlocks.

Regarding Tech choices, due to your current lead probably Philo-Nat should come before going for Lib, to try for Taj, especially since there is Marble for trade. And ofc for .

Yes Taj is excellent if you can get it.