Full Monty

[shyuhe]

In case there was any doubt:

shyuhe (on deck)
mystyfly
bbp
kossin
soirana - UP
Silu (lurking)

Silu - you sure you don't want to play?

 

[Soirana]

can't see anything that bad. I will try formulate some plan friday evening.

 

[Silu]

Silu - you sure you don't want to play?

Yeah I'm sure Last I played Civ4 was probably that SGOTM turnset about 2 months ago - I would be quite far from Deity shape, even if I had the play time to devote

 

[mystyfly]

Had a look at the save. Doesn't look this bad to me tbh.

Hard to tell where the 2 monties' capitals are, guess green to the south and blue to the north... I'd probably leave all EPs on blue, shyuhe. They have long borders with each other and might end up at war but we can't hope for that, especially if hindu spreads to greenie.

1N of gems is clearly best although I think we can forget the other 2 gems as they are in the first ring and would be very hard to take... South of bactrian there is a green cow/fish site (+10F for 2 pop) or there's the clams/pigs site to the north (+11F) so we have our options for GPFam. North site just lacks hammers and forests to get NE done...

I would like to send a warrior east of northern barb city... eventually there is another site worth pushing for... if we could seal off towards the east, we'll have quite some land.

Since we won't get any livestock soon, pottery > writing.

 

[Soirana]

Few words:
why on Earth we are on 70 percent research? we loose a bit this way.

I thought everyone realised that IW insterad of writing meant fogbust and aggresive settling... We made a game so must have sticked with plan. It is mine fault for being inactive i guess.

i believe we will have to take gem city from monty. Luckily it looks like they could be bribed on each other. do not recall if you can do this with city... If so potter>Writing as it is faster.

Overall need get some 4-5 vultures as soon a spossible. Settler most likely will be canceled.

Overall plan... make few mines, chop, whip some vultures. i will try test if we can stir a war with that settler.

 

[Soirana]

i started and could not stop myself. verry sorry

Turn zero- drop slider, cancel settler.
take notice of archersparked near southern barb city. move northern warrior in barb city radius [on forest across river.]
Start after long though i go pottery> writing as barb cities have livestock, but it can be farmed and i am afraid of crashing economically
Cancel settlker, finish warrior in secondary city [1hammer left]
One worker roads gems [pointless to move him via forest
Another goes to mine iron

Turn one- worker and warrior gets finished
Workers - road gems, start mining iron, runs on plain hill
eastern units goes toward barb city

t53- northern workker finishes marked road. other keep mining, Eridu goes to size three [i guess so]

t54- northern worker moves on forest to chop, others keep mining, switch back slider

t56 - cap to size five, reaarange tiles

t59-eridu to size four whip settler. poteery done, start AH

t64-put settler on sleep near bananas it and barb cities should do some blocking.
t65- We score perfect victory at bactrian no loses, stack moves towards golden city i order few more workers.
t67/68-plop banan city as i saw upcoming monty settler
t69- we get hindu spread...
t70-we get gold city
t71-we get writing... hill 1SE of kish should be chopped a bit. probably gems are bit prechopped too. kish will pop borders next turn and green monty is making tour towards eridu with settler. Really can't see what can be done on this. Arguably kish cou;d have been 1NE, but...

We also loose 3 gold per turn on zero slider although with upcoming gems and a bit in coffers this should not matter too much.

We clearly need at least cripple green monty fastish. Or maybe not.

 

[babybluepants]

That set was too long, imo... Well played, I guess. I don't really understand why you didn't go for the city site we talked about, 1N of the gem? It would have completed the land block somewhat. Not sure what the cost would have been, but we could've chopped and mined the gem right away to hopefully offset it.

Hoping Green's settler plops in some ridiculous jungle spot and doesn't take the cow north of Eridu, but that's wishful thinking. Other than the breakaway settler, it looks reasonable now. Can we afford to capture the northern city? I imagine that with gems we maybe could, but it's a stretch economically. We don't even have Sailing for it.

We need to get to Currency somehow, so Alphabet might be correct? Would the two Montys trade Math in this situation? I somehow doubt it. Maybe that's better than, since Alpha is one of the techs we can actually trade for? Or just head for Ziggurats?

why on Earth we are on 70 percent research? we loose a bit this way.

I'm guessing kossin needed 1t of 70% to complete IW.

 

[Soirana]

That set was too long, imo... Well played, I guess. I don't really understand why you didn't go for the city site we talked about, 1N of the gem? It would have completed the land block somewhat. Not sure what the cost would have been, but we could've chopped and mined the gem right away to hopefully offset it.

Hoping Green's settler plops in some ridiculous jungle spot and doesn't take the cow north of Eridu, but that's wishful thinking. Other than the breakaway settler, it looks reasonable now. Can we afford to capture the northern city? I imagine that with gems we maybe could, but it's a stretch economically. We don't even have Sailing for it.

We need to get to Currency somehow, so Alphabet might be correct? Would the two Montys trade Math in this situation? I somehow doubt it. Maybe that's better than, since Alpha is one of the techs we can actually trade for? Or just head for Ziggurats?


I'm guessing kossin needed 1t of 70% to complete IW.

if you go further north i would advocate getting UB. Although it needs testing how good are Monty's at searching alphabet.

Alphabet they would trade. Not even sure that is best tech in situation like this. Might be Alpha might be not. We should be able to put both gems and gold online rather soon.


Sorry, but i've never understood what is 1n of gems good for... must be born silly.

 

[shyuhe]

I'm only going to rant once about this, but playing almost 20 turns with minimal discussion of the game plan (especially ignoring the one point most members agreed one) is simply unacceptable. Please don't do this in the future as it really takes away from the experience of playing a succession game for many of us.

As for the current state of our game, it looks like we really need to lay a few cottages down to make sure we don't go bankrupt. Gems will come online in a 4-5 turns, gold probably a few turns after that (lack of worker turns). The land block will be essentially done once the northern barb city's border's pop in 8 turns. We just have to pray that Green doesn't settle a stupid city, as we can't afford any more cities right now.

I'll mull over the save and come up with a plan tomorrow.

 

[kossin]

Can`t look today or tomorrow but will have a look on Saturday.

The 70% research was to finish IW yes on the last turn.

 

[Soirana]

I'm only going to rant once about this, but playing almost 20 turns with minimal discussion of the game plan (especially ignoring the one point most members agreed one) is simply unacceptable. Please don't do this in the future as it really takes away from the experience of playing a succession game for many of us.

As for the current state of our game, it looks like we really need to lay a few cottages down to make sure we don't go bankrupt. Gems will come online in a 4-5 turns, gold probably a few turns after that (lack of worker turns). The land block will be essentially done once the northern barb city's border's pop in 8 turns. We just have to pray that Green doesn't settle a stupid city, as we can't afford any more cities right now.

I'll mull over the save and come up with a plan tomorrow.

gems should come in two turns, IIRC. When workers mine iron on a move and move to mining gold. So in four turns gold and gems [and iron] should be workable, leading to +8+9 surplus. You can delete warriors and replace with vultures i guess.
Although we made to writing so working 2 scientists everywhere will certainly get us to tech x. If we join hindu we can certainly make some trades, get alpha one way of another. For my taste riverside mines are better than useless cottages.

Not sure what plan you wanted. You have stack of jags/archers next to city - you have a chance you take it. Cause you leave it - it goes to Monty. I did had spare settler with a road bellow it. Could have been banana city could have been gems.
If i get barb city what is the point of settling 1N of gem? As far as understood agreement was to settle this in order to get gems if anything else fails.
Not like you could plan how big Monty's stack will be or how good barb archers will fight. Honestly i expected loosing 3-4 vultures and lost none.


As length goes... Oh, well.... what is max length of turnset on normal speed?

 

[shyuhe]

I apologize if I wasn't clear about turn set lengths - I don't think any turn set should go beyond 10 turns at this point in the game, maybe 11 or 12 if there's something important coming up (like a great person being born).

We will need at least 3-4 cottages to keep our economy from hitting strike. I don't think we need any more cottages than that since scientists will be better until we get a GP farm up.

 

[Soirana]

I apologize if I wasn't clear about turn set lengths - I don't think any turn set should go beyond 10 turns at this point in the game, maybe 11 or 12 if there's something important coming up (like a great person being born).

We will need at least 3-4 cottages to keep our economy from hitting strike. I don't think we need any more cottages than that since scientists will be better until we get a GP farm up.

Well, it is rather reasonable to cotage one city. Either of barbarian ones should do.

Gold city is probably easier to convert [and it has better food and better population], while gemcity probably make slightly better capitol place asssuming we eventually move palace.

 

[mystyfly]

I'm only going to rant once about this, but playing almost 20 turns with minimal discussion of the game plan (especially ignoring the one point most members agreed one) is simply unacceptable. Please don't do this in the future as it really takes away from the experience of playing a succession game for many of us.

100% agree. We are discussing what the team wants to do with the save. IIRC, at least 3 of us wanted to settle 1N of gems, and you just change it. If you don't want to settle there it's fine, but you have to bring that up for further discussion.
Set lenghts are usually 10t normal, 15t epic speed, I expected this to be clear as well.

Can't look at the save right now will comment later.

 

[mystyfly]

Not really sure why we're having 7 vultures when we want to capture 2 barb cities... kinda overkill. Economy is down right now, definitely tech PH now (well, after AH). It would be great to settle 2N or 2N1E of iron up north to seal off blue monty... just don't think we can afford that. What exactly was the reason to settle kish in this spot? We can't even irrigate the bananas so that tile... Not sure about cottages (@shyuhe), if any city could get those, then the southern barb city as it has green riverside tiles. OTOH, the city has good other tiles to work so I doubt building ANY cottages, ANYWHERE will do us much good. Not sure why this worker is building a road to the barb city, trade routes already exist thanks to the river. Priority now is improving gems (could've started chopping long ago) and chopping riverside jungle tiles.

Uruk should build the library and granary then could start another settler for the north. We need that land and should be able to pay the bills by then with zigs. Currency surely is another goal soon.

 

[Soirana]

Set lenghts are usually 10t normal, 15t epic speed, I expected this to be clear as well.

Maybe i should have mentioned i have never been in succesion game skipping that disaster with OSS...

I can dig autosave few turns [hopefully prior settlin] behind if that is a fix to the problem

 

[mystyfly]

Replaying the turns definitely is a no-go. We'll just carry on from here. I just didn't see you mentionning anything like "I've never played a SG before" or so. There is an etiquette in SGs you should follow like posted here. Most important thing however is to play to the team consensus, what we all decided on. And we didn't really get to discuss many of your actions besides, maybe, teching. Just watch out and be a little patient next time... and if we agree on something, like setting this time, DON'T just do what you prefer... if the team consensus differs to your opinion, bring it up and/or live with it.

 

[babybluepants]

Ok, let's just stick with PPP and 10t sets from now.

I didn't realize we didn't have AH yet... That settles the tech question for the next set. Otherwise, we really need to get the gems and gold online.

 

[Soirana]

Ok, let's just stick with PPP and 10t sets from now.

I didn't realize we didn't have AH yet... That settles the tech question for the next set. Otherwise, we really need to get the gems and gold online.

That doesn't settle anything in my opinion.

at this point AH is 2 food and 2 hammers through whole empire [and chance for horse tile]. none of this is critical right now or in future 50 turns.

Well, i do not like see farmed cows, but really choice should be between:

teching towards trade bait [Aesthetics?]
teching towards UB.

Assuming we join hindu and can keep relations reasonable with neighbours i would go with trade bait.

 

[babybluepants]

We also have a pig in the northern city.