G-Major 100

[Kaitzilla]

What's this? I posted my first (and quite a few after that) game to HoF years before you officially joined the forum, just fyi

I never had the micro patience to truly be competitive (MOST of the time), but I've also never been the type that only shows up at one spot on the forum. I'm not playing much civ IV (though still some) lately but that's always cyclical for me.

When one makes an effort to improve, it always pays to be open-minded and possibly even cut-throat. My sub forum affiliation knows no loyalties .

Hehe, I stand corrected!

Congratulations on an excellent date!

Why not Augustus? The Industrious trait will help build both The Great Wall and The Oracle faster with its +50% Hammer bonus for Wonders; good to have for National Wonders like Heroic Epic too. Half price Forges are almost as good as half price Courthouses, though the latter work better for a more Espionage focused game. The half price Forges will help build everything including Courthouses a bit faster. So between the two, Augustus and Julius Caesar, I'm not sure which one is better. Augustus is definitely better in getting The Great Wall up faster though, thus he would be best for surviving the Raging Barbarians in the early part of the Ancient Era.

Sun Tzu Wu

It is true that Augustus has much better odds of getting the Great Wall and Oracle done before the AI, but the ruinous maintenance costs of Diety make Organized very strong in my opinion. I felt Julius is the best for getting a fast time since Huayna Capac isn't allowed.

Just curious, is anyone trying ancient era starts having success doing anything besides rushing GW? I haven't been able to do anything which performs better than settle on stone, build 4-5 warriors while teching masonry, then build GW before finally building my first 2 workers while researching BW to try and whip/chop out the first settler and barracks. Even so, it seems I am facing longbows ~1AD on crowded maps, which pretty much permanently puts me out of the game with only 12-15 praets built by then.

I had some success against barbs without the great wall using max AI and high seas. The great spy is so useful on Deity though, you might just want to buld the great wall anyway. If there weren't raging barbs, it would open up a lot more possibilities I think.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

It is true that Augustus has much better odds of getting the Great Wall and Oracle done before the AI, but the ruinous maintenance costs of Diety make Organized very strong in my opinion. I felt Julius is the best for getting a fast time since Huayna Capac isn't allowed.

In my opinion, the Organized trait is more useful for half price Courthouses. This trait only reduces civic costs too. Since the goal is a conquest victory, one can raze cities when maintenance costs become too high and building Wealth and hiring Merchants are good ways to counter this, in addition to simply building and nurturing cottages -> towns. Vassals are also an very good option, where one can simply return a few cities to the conquered Civ after it Capitulates.

I had some success against barbs without the great wall using max AI and high seas. The great spy is so useful on Deity though, you might just want to buld the great wall anyway. If there weren't raging barbs, it would open up a lot more possibilities I think.

I agree that its quite possible to survive the Raging Barbarians in the early Ancient Era with a small land area map (like Pangaea) with high seas and maximum opponents (17). The other AIs will each settle two cities and have their Scouts swarming around the unclaimed areas that its quite possible to completely avoid problems with Barbarians. Just start another game if you don't survive.

Settling on a Plains Hill Stone and building The Great Wall ASAP is probably a better option though. The early Great Spy from The Great Wall can be very useful.

Charlemagne may be another option for surviving the Raging Barbarians until The Great Wall is built. The key is he has the Protective trait and Hunting starting technology which allows one to research Archery first and train protective Archers. Next, one would research Masonry and his starting technology of Mysticism makes this possible. While researching Archery, one could try building a Worker or Warriors to steal Workers or add to one's protective Archer garrison. Follow this up by Oracling Metal Casting (need Pottery and Bronze Working) and generate two Great Scientists to bulb Machinery and Engineering (need Mathematics, Alphabet, and Aesthetics). Some researching of Engineering and maybe even Machinery will be required, since the GS bulb may not be enough depending on one's total population at the time of the bulbs. After Machinery, one can start training protective Crossbowmen. After Engineering, one can start training Charlemagne's unique unit, Landsknecht (+100% vs mounted and melee units), and Trebuchets which will allow you to conquer your neighbors even if they have Feudalism (Longbowmen). The key here is having enough commerce and research to research the prerequisite technologies allowing the bulbing of Machinery and Engineering. Note that you must avoid Fishing and Code of Laws in particular, but also Theology, Civil Service which would "unlock" other (wrong) Great Scientist bulbs such as Philosophy in particular and Paper. Later, you will want to acquire Feudalism to adopt Vassalage and accept Capitulations from your victims.

Good luck!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Rusten]

Some people including you were talking about Rusten's quick cossack large map game and it looks like a powerful leader and civ for mass conquest. Nonetheless, Rusten himself mentioned something obscure like his SSE would only work best on quick speed...

Don't think I've said anything like this. At best it is completely out of context and/or twisted. Link me.

 

[Jet]

How about Archipelago?

 

[Manco Capac]

Don't think I've said anything like this. At best it is completely out of context and/or twisted. Link me.

I will try to find it later and modify this present post.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Years? o_0

Unless you meant Kaitzilla was pretty taciturn in the past...I don't really get it.
Or you meant you were playing civ as a lurker before registering to the forums.

I meant that I posted to HoF quite heavily towards the end of 2008, and as you joined in march 2010 anything posted to HoF prior to march 2009 would be "years". We're in civ, where technical details matter. Anything >1 year is "years". That, and it sounds cooler that way .

Don't think I've said anything like this. At best it is completely out of context and/or twisted. Link me.

I vaguely recall discussion from around that time, and I don't think so either. Tech costs do scale between the speeds, as do bulb values. I don't see how settling specialists has any significant difference in value going from normal to quick.

Maybe you were settling because you got non-scientists or didn't have any better alternative uses? I haven't bothered to check the logs for that game again recently.

 

[Manco Capac]

I vaguely recall discussion from around that time, and I don't think so either. Tech costs do scale between the speeds, as do bulb values. I don't see how settling specialists has any significant difference in value going from normal to quick.

Maybe you were settling because you got non-scientists or didn't have any better alternative uses? I haven't bothered to check the logs for that game again recently.

I remember he settled GEngineers.

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@Rusten.

I have found the game of yours and probably I did misterpreted badly a comment of yours. Maybe, erm, you can clarify now.

 

[Ozbenno]

How about Archipelago?

Ragnar on Archipelago would be worth trying I think.

 

[bhavv]

Archipelago would actually be the easiest map - try a high seas cold snaky continents, those games can generate very small landmasses.

Heres the first map I just got (normal non HoF test game):



Squash in the maximum number of allowed Civs and try playing as Ragnar.

Although all of the above can result in getting fail starts like this:

Spoiler :

I thought I would try it out for the fun of it though. Im really enjoying playing Ragnar on archipelago, I've tried a few times now, though in my previous attempt Hannibal had Longbows right as soon as I nearly mauled his horse archer and numidian cavalry with spear + axe stacks. I didnt have catapults yet so gave up.

By the way, am I allowed to reload the 4000 BC save and click on regenerate map for a new attempt, or should I create a new game everytime? It doesnt really matter as I cant see myself winning a game.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Archipelago would actually be the easiest map - try a high seas cold snaky continents, those games can generate very small landmasses.

Heres the first map I just got (normal non HoF test game):



Squash in the maximum number of allowed Civs and try playing as Ragnar.

Although all of the above can result in getting fail starts like this:

Spoiler :

I thought I would try it out for the fun of it though. Im really enjoying playing Ragnar on archipelago, I've tried a few times now, though in my previous attempt Hannibal had Longbows right as soon as I nearly mauled his horse archer and numidian cavalry with spear + axe stacks. I didnt have catapults yet so gave up.

By the way, am I allowed to reload the 4000 BC save and click on regenerate map for a new attempt, or should I create a new game everytime? It doesnt really matter as I cant see myself winning a game.

That cold high seas map looks pretty promising.

Usually I don't try Deity sea maps because vassalizing AI is harder. Even if you break their army, they still feel they are doing fine because their fleet is intact producing a huge power rating and won't vassal. However, how strong can they be with such little land? Hmm.


That hidden picture made me pretty hard when I saw which AI it was.

 

[bhavv]

Normally I wouldnt ever be trying a conquest on Deity, and never with raging barbs, but the sheer jaw dropping difficulty of Deity + Raging Barbs on a huge map made it impossible to resist trying.

I've never even won a conquest and I'm trying this challenge, lol.

 

[kovacsflo]

After many tries, now I think I will have an accaptable finish date. I am playing with Darius in Terra and picked a classical start with just 10 AIs. That definetely needed a horse in my capital. I built an archer at first to fight against barb spearmen, and many immortals then. I stole 2 workers and killed a German archer with the archer I started with. Then made peace with them and attacked the Russians (both were quite close to me). I get 3 Russian cities, then peace and conquered Berlin. This resulted 5 good cities early, quite handy.

Having produced enough catapults I vassalized Mehmed and destroyed Catherina. Next was Washington, an easy pie. They had 3 lightly defended cities with some few archers and axemen, having no chance against my immortals. After only 2 turns of war(!) they capitulated.
Then I continued with 3 weak AIs: the crippled German and Egyiptians without a straregical resource.

The Spanish seems much harder opponents on the East, attacking with many catapults at first. Still finghting against them. Peter was a piece of cake as well on the west: similarly to Washington, they capitulated in 2 turns.

Roosevelt just conquered a city next to my western army. I get the opportunity and killed the injured troops and conquered an other city as well. Now I need to collect some troops and to wait for my vassals units. Time is 10x0 AD and 4 opponents remained, 2 unharmed.

 

[Kaitzilla]

After many tries, now I think I will have an accaptable finish date. I am playing with Darius in Terra and picked a classical start with just 10 AIs. That definetely needed a horse in my capital. I built an archer at first to fight against barb spearmen, and many immortals then. I stole 2 workers and killed a German archer with the archer I started with. Then made peace with them and attacked the Russians (both were quite close to me). I get 3 Russian cities, then peace and conquered Berlin. This resulted 5 good cities early, quite handy.

Having produced enough catapults I vassalized Mehmed and destroyed Catherina. Next was Washington, an easy pie. They had 3 lightly defended cities with some few archers and axemen, having no chance against my immortals. After only 2 turns of war(!) they capitulated.
Then I continued with 3 weak AIs: the crippled German and Egyiptians without a straregical resource.

The Spanish seems much harder opponents on the East, attacking with many catapults at first. Still finghting against them. Peter was a piece of cake as well on the west: similarly to Washington, they capitulated in 2 turns.

Roosevelt just conquered a city next to my western army. I get the opportunity and killed the injured troops and conquered an other city as well. Now I need to collect some troops and to wait for my vassals units. Time is 10x0 AD and 4 opponents remained, 2 unharmed.

Nice momentum!

Hopefully the raging barbs in the new world keep the AI out long enough for all the AI back on the mainland to vassal. It sucks when someone spawns a colony and you have to go invade them too.

 

[Rusten]

I remember he settled GEngineers.

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@Rusten.

I have found the game of yours and probably I did misterpreted badly a comment of yours. Maybe, erm, you can clarify now.

I don't see anything in there about game speed. What do you want me to clarify? Why I settled GPs?

Probably because my tech rate made bulbing less influential and quick speed meant there was a chance I wanted to tech towards late game units (thus more turns out of them). But I'm not saying that SSE is superior to bulbing, they were a safety net and about the same in terms of benefit. I didn't know how far I wanted to tech. I only played 2 games for that gauntlet so I had not planned it out in advance -- just winging it.

Spoiler :

No need to play more as everyone else played an advanced start making the gauntlet a joke

 

[kovacsflo]

I just finished my game, hopefully it will be accepted (I had a crash recovery...).

Raging barbs didn't really caused too much problems even at the beginning. I had enough AI cities nearby, I started close to coast, and there was some forest hills to defend well - actually as far as I remember, I only lost a worker to Barbarians. Remember: that was on a Terra map and classical start - Ai founded their 3rd cities quite quickly leaving less room to Barbs.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I just finished my game, hopefully it will be accepted (I had a crash recovery...).

Raging barbs didn't really caused too much problems even at the beginning. I had enough AI cities nearby, I started close to coast, and there was some forest hills to defend well - actually as far as I remember, I only lost a worker to Barbarians. Remember: that was on a Terra map and classical start - Ai founded their 3rd cities quite quickly leaving less room to Barbs.

1400 AD!

Well, I wasn't in first place long . I am surprised you were able to make such good use of immortals on Deity and handle the barbs so well with 10 opponents.

How much of the new world were the AI able to settle if I might ask?

Nice use of the Classical Start for fast 3rd AI cities to crowd barbs more, biuld archer first, and perhaps see horses at the start too. This might be the ideal solution to Raging barbs without resorting to the Great Wall. I would never have thought to try anything but Ancient Start.



That finish date is really going to look out of place on the HOF table

 

[Manco Capac]

I only played 2 games for that gauntlet so I had not planned it out in advance -- just winging it.

Spoiler :

No need to play more as everyone else played an advanced start making the gauntlet a joke

What was that gauntlet? I didn't find it yet.

 

[Rusten]

#55 http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=327344

 

[Manco Capac]

#55 http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=327344

Thanks. I will take a look for sure.

Choosing your era is a bad thing because it eases too much or...? Not sure to understand well the joke aspect...of all the games I barely played advanced starts. But from the only one I played, the AI's look pitiful how to face war on later stages/eras.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I just finished my game, hopefully it will be accepted (I had a crash recovery...).

Raging barbs didn't really caused too much problems even at the beginning. I had enough AI cities nearby, I started close to coast, and there was some forest hills to defend well - actually as far as I remember, I only lost a worker to Barbarians. Remember: that was on a Terra map and classical start - Ai founded their 3rd cities quite quickly leaving less room to Barbs.

Congratulations on an excellent game!

Although I considered Classical Era starts viable for 1st place, I would not have considered Immortals strong enough against AIs most of which should have connected Copper and even Iron early enough to stop Immortals cold.

Immortals should be particularly effective against Barbarian Archers and Axeman!

Given an Immortal focus, I would have chosen Cyrus for his Charismatic and Imperialistic traits.

My guess is no AI Settler ever left the Old World in your game.

Again, great game!

Sun Tzu Wu