G-Minor 119

[cabert]

In my try I used my first GS for an academy.
I then considered the other options, and was in doubt...

edit : with non wonder builders, you can go all the way to electricity from the oracle, then lib for radio.
I have played totally peacefully vs the weaklings, who are notorious wonder builders

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

In my try I used my first GS for an academy.
I then considered the other options, and was in doubt...

edit : with non wonder builders, you can go all the way to electricity from the oracle, then lib for radio.
I have played totally peacefully vs the weaklings, who are notorious wonder builders

I wouldn't waste The Oracle on Civil Service. I would use it on Education or even Electricity as cabert suggests, above but I agree that all your AI Leaders should be those that neglect Research. Also, don't trade Technologies with the AI; they will hold you back; just take there cities and research even faster with them.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Ozbenno]

1100AD first attempt. Pericles on Boreal.

Got rotten luck with huts, 1 settler and Archery, lots of maps and some gold. I'm thinking Gandhi might be better on this map, fast workers and lots of civics switches (slave universities in particular), might see how that goes.

 

[kcd_swede]

I wouldn't waste The Oracle on Civil Service. I would use it on Education or even Electricity as cabert suggests, above but I agree that all your AI Leaders should be those that neglect Research. Also, don't trade Technologies with the AI; they will hold you back; just take there cities and research even faster with them.

Sun Tzu Wu

Which leaders would you suggest as being research neglecters?

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I wouldn't waste The Oracle on Civil Service. I would use it on Education or even Electricity as cabert suggests, above but I agree that all your AI Leaders should be those that neglect Research. Also, don't trade Technologies with the AI; they will hold you back; just take there cities and research even faster with them.

Which leaders would you suggest as being research neglecters?

I don't usually play with AI Leaders that neglect Research, but Sitting Bull is the best example of a peaceful (peaceful opponents is definitely not required in this gauntlet) leader who is horrible at Research, despite his Philosophical trait.

Any AI Leader that builds up for War is going to neglect research as his unit maintenance sky rockets:

• Boudica
• Brennus
• Charlemagne
• Churchill
• Cyrus
• Genghis Khan
• Gilgamesh
• Julius Caesar
• Justinian I
• Kubai Khan
• Mehmed II
• Montezuma
• Napoleon
• Saladin
• Shaka
• Washington

The above list includes the war-like (military favor 10 or 5) AI Leaders, except those with Financial, Industrious, and Philosophical traits. AI Leaders with military favor 2 were eliminated from this list as not favoring.

Filtering out the AI Leaders that have a 30% chance of building a unit or less, the short list becomes:

• Genghis Khan (35%)
• Justinian I (35%)
• Mehmed II (40%)
• Montezuma (35%)
• Napoleon (40%)
• Shaka (40%)

I have no doubt that cabert can come up with a better list of poor teching AI Leaders. I have virtually no experience with them; he probably has more experience in this area ... he knows this game very well!

Caveat: My advice is not grounded by playing on lower difficulty levels and I've not played this gauntlet at all. So use at your own risk.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Ozbenno]

I chose Manu and Elizabeth because I wanted them to research a couple of techs for me (in reality best I have gotten is 2 turns of Metal Casing saved). You only need 4 cities can do so peacefully if you pop a settler or 2 for less production cost.

1050AD second effort, slightly better hut result in that I got Iron Working from a very late hut result.

 

[AAA]

275 AD
Had the UN in 125 AD, but the vote took forever
Still, Slipped past cas's excellent game using boreal (I have no idea how he did that, even looking at his finish map, I kept thinking "Where is the money" )

I have also been wondering max AI for targets, or min AI for huts. I think max, if you rush them right you get a city and a worker for a couple of warriors. I never get more than 2-3 useful things (settlers or workers) from the huts. And after a while the chinging sound of gold from a hut really begins to grate on the nerves . At least with the AIs as long as catch them quick enough you get the city.

 

[shulec]

275 AD
Had the UN in 125 AD, but the vote took forever

Awesome game. Don't forget to submit this time!

I put up a 600 AD finish with Elizabeth in a rush/hut game with three AI.

Spoiler :

 

[AAA]

Awesome game. Don't forget to submit this time!

A good point .

 

[cabert]

I don't usually play with AI Leaders that neglect Research, but Sitting Bull is the best example of a peaceful (peaceful opponents is definitely not required in this gauntlet) leader who is horrible at Research, despite his Philosophical trait.

Any AI Leader that builds up for War is going to neglect research as his unit maintenance sky rockets:

• Boudica
• Brennus
• Charlemagne
• Churchill
• Cyrus
• Genghis Khan
• Gilgamesh
• Julius Caesar
• Justinian I
• Kubai Khan
• Mehmed II
• Montezuma
• Napoleon
• Saladin
• Shaka
• Washington

The above list includes the war-like (military favor 10 or 5) AI Leaders, except those with Financial, Industrious, and Philosophical traits. AI Leaders with military favor 2 were eliminated from this list as not favoring.

Filtering out the AI Leaders that have a 30% chance of building a unit or less, the short list becomes:

• Genghis Khan (35%)
• Justinian I (35%)
• Mehmed II (40%)
• Montezuma (35%)
• Napoleon (40%)
• Shaka (40%)

I have no doubt that cabert can come up with a better list of poor teching AI Leaders. I have virtually no experience with them; he probably has more experience in this area ... he knows this game very well!

Caveat: My advice is not grounded by playing on lower difficulty levels and I've not played this gauntlet at all. So use at your own risk.

Sun Tzu Wu

IMHO it's not about low research, it's about low "religious flavour".
I'm not looking into the AI definition table, so can't be sure, but I think shaka will almost never build the oracle, and washington looks safe too.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

...

Filtering out the AI Leaders that have a 30% chance of building a unit or less, the short list becomes:

• Genghis Khan (35%)
• Justinian I (35%)
• Mehmed II (40%)
• Montezuma (35%)
• Napoleon (40%)
• Shaka (40%)

I have no doubt that cabert can come up with a better list of poor teching AI Leaders. I have virtually no experience with them; he probably has more experience in this area ... he knows this game very well!

Caveat: My advice is not grounded by playing on lower difficulty levels and I've not played this gauntlet at all. So use at your own risk.

IMHO it's not about low research, it's about low "religious flavour".
I'm not looking into the AI definition table, so can't be sure, but I think shaka will almost never build the oracle, and washington looks safe too.

I agree, low "religious flavour" makes more sense. I did the same filtering above, except rather than start with military 10 & military 5, I started with no "religious flavour" and came up with:

• Genghis Khan (35%)
• Mehmed II (40%)
• Napoleon (40%)
• Shaka (40%)

It knocked out the obvious religion lovers, Justinian I and Montezuma. so high military is a partial correlation, but no "religious flavour" plus the same secondary filters are better. Thanks for the correction, cabert!

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[shulec]

I want to share my thought and strategy for this game. I hope it will help some of you and that others may be able to point out some flaws.

I have tried this game with Gandhi, Peter, and Elizabeth. Each game was significantly improved, but probably not because of the leader choice. I tried a two civ rush, a two settler/hut start and a one city rush with a hut settler. The benefit of rushing two civs is that you will probably a worker or two. I played Lakes maps, with have quite a few forests, but are not real food heavy.

Key Points

• Get your first GS as early as possible.
• Try to get stone and marble in your first four cities.
• Do not delay building the Oracle or Pyramids while waiting for marble or stone, unless the delay is just a few turns.
• Forget education, go for the Oracle Civil Service slingshot!
• Bulb Education.
• Get libraries in four cities before education.
• Target cities with as much food as possible to allow for more specialists.
• Prioritize the Pyramids to get representation as soon as possible.
• Chop, chop, chop and chop. Pre-chop too!

The Great Library
Don't build it! I think this is a waste of hammers. You should be prioritizing warriors, workers, settlers, libraries, granaries, the Oracle, the Pyramids, the National Epic, a forge or two. By time you free up hammers for this, you should be getting to Sci Method.

Marble
If you have to build a settler and build roads to a crappy site for marble, skip it! You will only use it for the Parthenon and National epic. If you have it form your first three cities, you will use for the Oracle too.

Wonders
Oracle
Pyramids
Parthenon
+/- Hanging Gardens
National Epic
Oxford University
United Nations

Pacifism
Don't rush into Pacifism. You won't need that many Great People. Build your wonders and universities first.

Great Scientists
Academy
Education
+/- Printing Press
Scientific Method
Physics (1 or 2)
Electricity (2, one from Physics)

Music
I think this is a good tech. Use the Great Artist for a Golden age to avoid anarchy, generate more GPP, boost builds and commerce.

Metal Casting
This is a tough call on prioritization. It probably should come after education. You want a forge in your pyramid city to increase the chance of getting a GE. In one of my games, I got it from a hut.

 

[DJMGator13]

I agree, low "religious flavour" makes more sense. I did the same filtering above, except rather than start with military 10 & military 5, I started with no "religious flavour" and came up with:

Genghis Khan (35%)
Mehmed II (40%)
Napoleon (40%)
Shaka (40%)

It knocked out the obvious religion lovers, Justinian I and Montezuma. so high military is a partial correlation, but no "religious flavour" plus the same secondary filters are better. Thanks for the correction, cabert!

Most of those AI's have low Peace weights, so your giving up a free 6-8 diplo points based on who you choose. So you're having to work extra hard to make up those points in other areas: trades, techs, borders, fav civic, etc...



This is available in pdf form here on CFC.

 

[Ozbenno]

Pacifism
Don't rush into Pacifism. You won't need that many Great People. Build your wonders and universities first.

Great Scientists
Academy
Education
+/- Printing Press
Scientific Method
Physics (1 or 2)
Electricity (2, one from Physics)

Played a couple of games in this as well and one on a different sized map but same leader/speed.

I got to 560AD I think and played these points a bit different. I chopped and whipped the wonders and unis (after Oracling Education as CS only took 9 turns) and then switched to Caste and Pacifism and ran 4-5 scientists everywhere. By the time you complete the bottom of the tech tree (Machinery, Optics etc), I went

Research Printing Press (8 turns I think)
Bulb Astronomy (to 1 turn left)
Bulb Sci Method (2 turns left)
Double bulb Physics (1 turn left)
Double buld Electricity (3 turns left)
Liberalise Radio
Research Mass Media.

Including the Academy early that leaves you with 7 GSs to pop. I also left Parthenon and National Epic off as well, Aesthetics and Literature are a detour you don't need I think and didn't have marble.

 

[AgedOne]

I want to share my thought and strategy for this game. I hope it will help some of you and that others may be able to point out some flaws.

Thanks for posting your strategy, shulec!
I am intrigued, as many of the points you are making are familiar to me from my own attempts - but I haven't beaten 1100AD yet. I will have to concentrate on the key differences, and see where I am going wrong.
Incidentally, how many cities have you been running at about 1AD? AT least 4, of course, but do you stop at 4 or run with 6 or 8?

I have been concentrating on Lakes in the last few days, too. I have tried Elizabeth, but also Frederick (Philo & Organised + starts with a scout). I have tried with 4 AI and also 3.

Some crucial differences that I have noticed:

• I have tended to take Education from Oracle, and use my first Gt Sci for (1) Academy (2) Philosophy - after that they are used for the same purposes as yours.
• I haven't been building Parthenon.
• I haven't gone for Music.
• I probably haven't chopped enough, and focussed on getting the libraries in really early enough.

I think I might have another crack soon - and aim for beating 1000AD.

Cheers!

 

[shulec]

Thanks for posting your strategy, shulec!

Incidentally, how many cities have you been running at about 1AD? AT least 4, of course, but do you stop at 4 or run with 6 or 8?

Below are saves from two of my submissions. My Peter game finished around 920 AD, the Liz game at 600 AD. All of my cities should be built in the saves. Go to the city screen to see when they were settled.

I am thinking that stopping at four cities may be ideal.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I agree, low "religious flavour" makes more sense. I did the same filtering above, except rather than start with military 10 & military 5, I started with no "religious flavour" and came up with:

• Genghis Khan (35%)
• Mehmed II (40%)
• Napoleon (40%)
• Shaka (40%)

It knocked out the obvious religion lovers, Justinian I and Montezuma. so high military is a partial correlation, but no "religious flavour" plus the same secondary filters are better. Thanks for the correction, cabert!

Most of those AI's have low Peace weights, so your giving up a free 6-8 diplo points based on who you choose. So you're having to work extra hard to make up those points in other areas: trades, techs, borders, fav civic, etc...



This is available in pdf form here on CFC.

I believe that losing 6-8 diplomacy is an exaggeration to say the least. Given how many turns there are before The United Nations is built, you can get even the war-like AI Leaders I suggested to Open Borders after trading resources a little while. Beyond that you just need a higher Power rating to keep them in line. You are also over looking shared war Diplomacy; its not that difficult to bribe these AI Leaders into Wars they might also start on their own. It may cost a little bit of Wealth at most.

You're really only missing out on the Diplomacy due to the differences in Base Attitude. Also, remember that this is Warlord difficulty. You can use early rushes and Settler spam to garner 55-58% of the world population. You only need one AI Leader to Vote with you to provide total Votes > 60% of the World Population.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[AgedOne]

Below are saves from two of my submissions. My Peter game finished around 920 AD, the Liz game at 600 AD. All of my cities should be built in the saves. Go to the city screen to see when they were settled.

I am thinking that stopping at four cities may be ideal.

Thanks very much, shulec. More info than I expected!

So you would prefer 4 cities, but have them fully developed and grown very early?
I have been looking at my latest couple of starts very carefully just as I finish the 'exploration' phase, and marking the best foody locations to aim for. Trouble is, there really aren't that many good food spots on my maps (I'm thinking - 2 food resources by rivers, though will settle for 1 food resource plus Oasis or Floodplains) Usually one is already in the hands of a rival, so I have to consider rushing them. That's only really an option of I can do it very early - I don't want to be wasting time building a handful of military after about turn 45 or so.

I still struggle with getting 4 libraries up before I get to Education. That's going to be my focus.

 

[Walter_Wolf]

Hi all

I just recently discovered the gauntlets, and decided to give it a shot . On the minor for now - not really up to levels above prince (yet).

I finally won a diplo with Liz last night, but the date was a 1400 and something idk exactly. Managed to oracle sling Education, and "liberalize" Radio.
I also had a GE for the UN, but had to wait for the second voting turn to win.

The thing to improve is probably not to rely on the financial trait, and hire way more specialists than I did. I had the pyramids in 875 BC, but no specialists around, so switching to Representation wasn't worth the 1 anarchy turn. I founded the future GP farm too late .

One other thing. I played the Lakes map which gave the AI too much room to expand - it outexpanded me, so I had to settle two cities in the finish phase just to aquire enough population points. 4 cities (as someone mentioned) were not nearly enough.

I'll try again with more emphasis on food/specialists/Slavery. Might try another map as well.

 

[shulec]

How I start this game.

Game settings. Elizabeth. AI: Gandhi, Mansa Musa and Hatshepsut. (I chose three, so I can kill one and have plenty of space and less competition for huts.) No City Razing. Crank up mapfinder. (It loves the Tiny map, quick regeneration!)

First seven turns.

• Choose your map. You know what you need.
• Choose a start with you warrior two tiles away from your settler, preferably 2E or 2W (This increases the likelihood of grabbing an empty capitol.)
• Settle in place or on next turn.
• Send your warrior laterally to the middle of the map (away from pine trees; toward jungles). Do not divert your trek to grab huts. Take them only if it is in your path.
• Find an AI on turn 1 or 2. Approach his city and try to walk up the tile 2 SW, SE, NE, or NW of the capitol (this way you won't get kicked away by a border pop.)
• If the capitol is not built on a plains hill, it will almost always be unguarded at turn 5 (I saw one map where Mansa got a warrior on turn 4.)
• If you can't get to on capitol on turn 5, keep going and attack with your warrior. He will have between a 3.4% and 9.5% chance of taking it. If he dies, move to the next map.
• If you grab the capitol, send your warrior out to get huts.
• If you don't get a settler from the huts, move on to the next map.
• If the capitol you took sucks, move on to the next map.

My most recent game in action

My start:
Note that my warrior is two tiles from my settler.

Spoiler :

My capitol on Turn 1:
Note that I am working the lake to get hunting in 3 turns, therefore I can build a scout in three turns.

Spoiler :

Here I am approaching Mansa Musa, after having declared war, taking the capitol this turn (Turn 4):

Spoiler :

Here I am, standing in my second city on Turn 5, ready to explore:

Spoiler :

My capitol and second city were so awesome that I played this one even though I did not get a settler from a hut. I built two settlers, found an awesome third city, and a so-so site with stone for my fourth city. I built only the Oracle, Pyramids, Hanging Gardens and Oxford University. I was a bit short on GS, but managed OK. I Oracled Civil Service and bulbed Education. Finish 450 AD:

Spoiler :