G-Minor 32

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Shoot the Moon, thank you for all your great answers quoted below. (Un)fortunately, they left me with a few more questions ...

One you get free with Music, the GP points from Parthenon should get you 1-2, that leaves you to generate 1-2. Isn't that hard when your philo.

OK, a pure CE can generate Great People without using Specialists, by building Wonders (especially early ones like the Parthenon) with the desired GPP type.

Hanging Gardens.

I decided not to build the Hanging Gardens in my first game, because I didn't want to dilute my Great Artists with more Great Engineers (already built The Pyramids). That was before I knew that Great Engineers can directly rush Wonders in the PA Partner's Culture cities. The Hanging Gardens also provides +1 Health which really helps a OCC, plus the free +1 Population is also good.

So, maybe every Wonder that generates Great Engineer GGPs is worthy of consideration, even if its other benefit(s) aren't particularly useful in this Gauntlet.

My understanding of what Jesusin is saying is that he does a pure CE until there are no more cottages to be worked (actually I believe he stops at 2 short of max from what he is saying) and then does the mixed economy. That is very similar to what I did in my game. I left 6 forests (should have been 4) and once I reached that point turned new citizens into artists.

I suspect that jesusin hires a pair of Scientists right after building a Library and uses the resultant Great Scientist to create an Academy. Shoot the Moon, do you also do this?

In my first game, I was so focused on preparing to build Great Artists and actually building Great Artists, that I forgot to generate a Great Scientist that would build an Academy until turn 154 (880 AD)! As I noted before, this was a fatal mistake in my opinion.

The strategy of turning new citizens into artists (see above) can actually prevent getting a GP. In my game, I built the Oracle but never got a GP because I turned some specialists into first scientists then artists (and Parthenon contributed artists also).

In my first game, I also built The Oracle for the Civil Service slingshot. I used the first Great Prophet generated exclusively from The Oracle source to build the Church of the Nativity, not realizing that I just added a second Great Prophet source. With these two Great Prophet sources I generated four more Great Prophets. If I had not built the Church of the Nativity, two of the last four Great Prophets probably would not have been generated. Thus, I would have still generated a total of three Great Prophets from a single Great Prophet source, despite the fact that I had this single Great Prophet source was diluted by 7-20 (increasing as the turns passed) Great Artists sources.

My point is you were lucky to get 0 Great Prophets. I was unlucky to get so many Great Prophets. My last Great Prophet was generated with a 4% chance of a Great Prophet, so low probability is no defense against getting a Great Prophet. Your luck will change (for the worst I fear).

I recall that you got four GS when you really wanted just one. So what did happen to you with Great Scientists could happen to you with Great Prophets in the future. This is the risk you must live with when building Wonders as they are GPP sources that you simply can't turn off and on as you please (like with Specialists).

I can not speak for Jesusin, but I keep my cottages until researching Mass Media (Jesusin, were you mixing up the Wonder and the tech? EDIT: Actually, I just looked at Jesusin's game page in the HoF and it seems the UN was built considering the mass civic changes.)

In my first game, I never built a single cottage. I played a pure Specialist Economy relatively poorly with a relatively weak PA Partner (Roosevelt) and was still able to achieve a Cultural win by turn 349 (1939 AD).

I think Peter (Vanilla preferably) could be effective for a SE. I don't see spiritual as very effective in this gauntlet because our anarchy only lasts 1 turn anyway.

I agree, but still like the freedom of the Spiritual trait. I can change both Civics and Religion up to 20 times every one hundred turns or 56 times with a game lasting 281 turns (the current top game by jesusin is also 281 turns)! I'm not saying that the Spiritual trait can be more effectively used in this Gauntlet than the Financial trait, but when you can change both Civics and Religion 56 times through the duration of a game with the best time, maybe some thought on how to profit from that flexibility is warranted.

For my game, growth is never the question. I was growing as fast as my worker could put up improvements. With 2 corn and 2 cottaged floodplains I never was starved for growth.

I also had only one worker and it was barely able to built improvements fast enough as well. So, I think a second Worker should be built to keep the city growing as fast as possible. When the happiness or health caps are approached, just hire an Artist or early Scientist (before Code of Laws).

In terms of PP, that is my first tech target after Lib. It is required for Scientific Method, and works well with a CE. I was lucky in my game to be able to trade all the way to machinery, which really shortened that.

I'm still amazed that a pure CE is effective at this late point in generating Great Artists. You probably mean the CE part of a combination CE/SE at this late point. Whenever I've play a CE with Cultural goal, I've found it hard to farm over a Town when more food was needed to support more Artists. Perhaps both you and jesusin are waiting too long to farm over your Towns? Since you have to research Printing Press anyway, you probably want to hold unto your Villages and Towns to gain a few dozen turns after Printing Press, right? My point is there doesn't seem to be a clear point in time where converting to pure SE would be optimal. That doesn't mean there aren't obvious pivot points in the game such as signing the DP and signing the PA. I'd guess that when the PA occurs would be the last sensible time to go to a pure SE, since your PA Partner probably has enough research capability for the two of you.

One final consideration is that a CE will reach biology first (especially if they prioritize it after Lib, which I am starting to think we should). This could slightly make up for the less GAs. My new CE strategy after Lib will probably be go to PP, then gunpowder and chemistry, then biology (have to get scientific method first), then communism. Convert to farms and use the PA research to get to Mass Media.

This sounds like an excellent part of a good CE -> CE/SE -> SE strategy. However, I would research Communism before Biology, if the DP -> PA waiting period would be up by the time Communism is completed and get that PA at the earliest possible year.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[jesusin]

Sun Tzu Wu, please forgive my imperfect use of the words. You are right, when I said "a pure CE" I should have said "mostly a CE". Since I am hiring 2 scientist for early Academy and hiring artists when I have nothing too important to build, it can't be called pure at all.

All your remarks are valuable and correct, thank you. You should be taking the first place from me very soon.

After building the UN, you start converting cottages to farms? Did you really start farming over cottages that late? Please confirm.

Confirmed. Maybe I am being a bit unclear, because I am mixing what I did in my game with what I think should be done in the winning game.

What I did: full speed research to MilTra, full speed research to Communism, full speed research to MM, only then put farms over cottages.

What I think should be done: full speed research to MilTra, half-hearted research to Communism, put farms over cottages then, research veeeery slowly towards Radio.

Why do I think it is best? Because a GA the turn the PA is signed is much more valuable than the possibility that your partner builds a 50% building in a distant future.

Isn't building the UN a big risk? You can't be sure you will ever get the mandatory Free Speech resolution passed. The big risk is the highest population Civ will win the Diplomacy win resolution. Can your PA partner get a Diplomacy win this way? If so, you don't lose, but you don't get the desired Cultural win either.
...
Did you get the mandatory Free Speech resolution passed?

Do you recommend building the UN?

As I said in my spoiler, UN is very dangerous. The FS resolution seems random to me, they would all vote "no" two times, then they would all vote "yes" for no reason that I know of. Then, after passing some useless resolutions, they start trying for Diplo victory.

However, there is no other way to keep your partner in FS, so maybe it is worth the risk. An early war could be the answer, making your partner bigger. Since you are a team, he doesn't choose which resolution to pass, but you.

 

[jesusin]

My understanding of what Jesusin is saying is that he does a pure CE until there are no more cottages to be worked (actually I believe he stops at 2 short of max from what he is saying) and then does the mixed economy.

The main sentence is right. The sentence in brackets is not. What I meant to say was that, after putting the right improvement in each resource, I put cottages on FP and on flat grasslands. I don't go cottage-crazy, so I don't put cottages on grassland/hills or flat plains.

(Jesusin, were you mixing up the Wonder and the tech? EDIT: Actually, I just looked at Jesusin's game page in the HoF and it seems the UN was built considering the mass civic changes.)

Yes, I was mixing them up. I went all farms the turn I got MM. Then I built the UN.

I think Peter (Vanilla preferably) could be effective for a SE. I don't see spiritual as very effective in this gauntlet because our anarchy only lasts 1 turn anyway.

Expansive is worth a try, no doubt.

Convert to farms and use the PA research to get to Mass Media.

If you are not going to risk the UN, then maybe it is better to direct your partner research so that nobody ever gets MM.

 

[WastinTime]

As I said in my spoiler, UN is very dangerous. The FS resolution seems random to me, they would all vote "no" two times, then they would all vote "yes" for no reason that I know of. Then, after passing some useless resolutions, they start trying for Diplo victory.

However, there is no other way to keep your partner in FS, so maybe it is worth the risk. An early war could be the answer, making your partner bigger. Since you are a team, he doesn't choose which resolution to pass, but you.

I believe the UN is worth the risk. It's actually not that risky if you just put the effort into making everyone like you instead of just your PA partner. Just bust up any shared religions that your opponent has using free religion.

 

[bshumbera]

However, there is no other way to keep your partner in FS, so maybe it is worth the risk. An early war could be the answer, making your partner bigger. Since you are a team, he doesn't choose which resolution to pass, but you.

I've played two games where I bribed my PA partner into FS and he remained there throughout the rest of the game. In both cases, my partner had much more territory and cities than all my other attempts. I think there must be some sort of size threshold where the AI realizes that FS is better than Beuro, much the same way you or I would. In this case, making your partner bigger via an early war also has the side effect of them wanting to stay in FS, not just big enough to guarantee a UN vote win.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Thanks everyone for all your good ideas regarding winning this gauntlet. Special thanks to Shoot the Moon and jesusin, who responded to my questions with concise and clear answers.

Permanent Alliance control:

Research: It is almost obvious how to control your PA Partner's research. A new Research menu item appears in the Diplomacy window for your PA Partner.

UN resolutions: According to jesusin, you control which UN resolution to pass:

Since you are a team, he doesn't choose which resolution to pass, but you.

Can your PA Partner trade Technologies with the other AIs?

(In my first game, I was concerned that my PA Partner would trade Mass Media away, so I always directed his research to whatever Technology the other AIs had and my PA didn't have.)

Can your PA Partner trade Resources with the other AIs?

Is there any other aspect of PA control that one should be concerned with?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[bshumbera]

@Sun Tzu Wu:

Granted I've had limited experience with PAs but it doesn't appear that your partner will trade with the other AI, at least technologies... although I can't say for certain. Generally, however, I've found that my PA partner and I have out researched the other AIs except maybe one stray technology like Flight of Fascism. In those cases, my partner has not traded. Perhaps someone with more experience dealing with PAs can weigh in.

 

[Shoot the Moon]

@Sun Tzu Wu:

Granted I've had limited experience with PAs but it doesn't appear that your partner will trade with the other AI, at least technologies... although I can't say for certain. Generally, however, I've found that my PA partner and I have out researched the other AIs except maybe one stray technology like Flight of Fascism. In those cases, my partner has not traded. Perhaps someone with more experience dealing with PAs can weigh in.

That is my same experience, PA partner does not trade.

If you are not going to risk the UN, then maybe it is better to direct your partner research so that nobody ever gets MM.

I would rather get MM for Hollywood. I just put UN at the end of my build queue so my partner can't get build it. Next game I think I will build it hoping for Free Speech (having free speech would probably have cut a lot of time off of my date).

I suspect that jesusin hires a pair of Scientists right after building a Library and uses the resultant Great Scientist to create an Academy. Shoot the Moon, do you also do this?

Yes, I got my academy in 1280 B.C.

I recall that you got four GS when you really wanted just one. So what did happen to you with Great Scientists could happen to you with Great Prophets in the future. This is the risk you must live with when building Wonders as they are GPP sources that you simply can't turn off and on as you please (like with Specialists).

Oxford was my only GS source and I got unlucky with it. However, for +100% research I think it is a necessary risk. I only got 2 unwanted GS from it actually (one was free from Physics).

I'm still amazed that a pure CE is effective at this late point in generating Great Artists. You probably mean the CE part of a combination CE/SE at this late point. Whenever I've play a CE with Cultural goal, I've found it hard to farm over a Town when more food was needed to support more Artists. Perhaps both you and jesusin are waiting too long to farm over your Towns? Since you have to research Printing Press anyway, you probably want to hold unto your Villages and Towns to gain a few dozen turns after Printing Press, right? My point is there doesn't seem to be a clear point in time where converting to pure SE would be optimal. That doesn't mean there aren't obvious pivot points in the game such as signing the DP and signing the PA. I'd guess that when the PA occurs would be the last sensible time to go to a pure SE, since your PA Partner probably has enough research capability for the two of you.

It is a pure CE in the sense that I only cottage, never farm. However, with two corns and two floodplains, I wind up with a large food surplus even after cottaging everything. That goes into specialists once all cottages are worked.

This sounds like an excellent part of a good CE -> CE/SE -> SE strategy. However, I would research Communism before Biology, if the DP -> PA waiting period would be up by the time Communism is completed and get that PA at the earliest possible year.

I always make sure to have Communism in time. Not doing so would be a huge mistake. However, I usually delay as long as possible to give myself more time to build the monasteries that are obsoleted with Scientific Method.

What I did: full speed research to MilTra, full speed research to Communism, full speed research to MM, only then put farms over cottages.

What I think should be done: full speed research to MilTra, half-hearted research to Communism, put farms over cottages then, research veeeery slowly towards Radio.

Why do I think it is best? Because a GA the turn the PA is signed is much more valuable than the possibility that your partner builds a 50% building in a distant future.

I agree 100% with everything said there. That is what I did, and now what I think should be done.

However, there is no other way to keep your partner in FS, so maybe it is worth the risk. An early war could be the answer, making your partner bigger. Since you are a team, he doesn't choose which resolution to pass, but you.

In terms of early war, I think the best way would be to get 40 turns of shared war. If someone manages to do that, I see them winning this gauntlet.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

There is a clear consensus that Financial is the favored secondary trait for the Player Civ. The primary strategy utilizing Financial (credited primarily to jesusin) is (r=Research focused; c=Culture focused; o=Optional):

1) Build a Worker that improves a Food Resource and Commerce (Gems) Resource.
2) Beeline Pottery, build/work cottages on all non-Resource tiles with 2+ food.
3r) Beeline Writing, build a Library and work two Scientists, generate a Great Scientist that creates an Academy.
3c) Build the Parthenon for its +50% GPP bonus to build Great Artists faster.
4r) Beeline Code of Laws & Civil Service and adopt Caste System & Bureaucracy. When all cottage tiles and improved, non-hammer Resource tiles are worked, the remaining population works hammer tiles when building something important and works as Artists otherwise.
4c) Build Wonders with Great Artist and Great Engineer GPPs; GAs and GEs are saved until the PA is signed.
4o) Spam your Religion across the Map via Missionaries.
5r) Beeline Liberalism such that Military Tradition can be selected as the free Technology and sign a Defensive Pact with your future (planned) PA Partner.
5c) Give or trade Technologies that unlock Wonders for your future (planned) PA Partner so he has a head start in building them. Ideally, you and your PA Partner will build all the World Wonders.
5o) Spam all your Religions to all your future (planned) PA Partner's cities via Missionaries, so he can build the corresponding Temples in each and build the corresponding generic Cathedrals (meaning any of the +50% Religious building).
6r) Beeline Communism and sign the PA.
6c) Attempt to bribe your future PA Partner into using Free Speech just prior to signing the PA. Start building your Great Artist farm, but continue working all cottages.
7r) Your PA Partner will take over most of the Research. Beeline Biology and start farming over cottages. The farms will soon gain +1 Food from Biology.
7c) Determine the best two PA Partner Culture (rate) cities (carefully consider Culture multipliers - city with Hermitage should usually be included) and settle GAs in each such that they will go Legendary at about the same time. Do 8c.
8r) Beeline Radio.
8c) Check your PA Partner's two Culture cities and use a GE to rush any useful Wonders or Cathedrals started in them recently.
9r No UN) Either research Mass Media and keep UN permanently in your build quene, but never built it, or avoid Mass Media entirely.
9r UN) Research Mass Media and build the UN. Select and pass Free Speech resolution. Before this, try to increase your PA Partners population and your Diplomatic scrore with all other AIs, so you can avoid losing via Diplomatic win.
9c) Do 8c.
10r) Focus on Medicine, Refrigeration, Ecology, Genetics for Health and Fusion for GE. Switch to Environmentalism ASAP to further increase Population so more Artists can be hired.
10c) Keep improving Great Artist farm, but as the win date approaches, the next Great Artist may not be born early enough to make a significant difference (can't shave off even a single turn from the projected win date).

Please provide suggestions for improving the above strategy outline - either improved format, or suggested additions or corrections.

Giving pure SE a second attempt - any suggestions?

However, due primarily to all my (serious) mistakes in my first pure SE attempt, I'd like to give pure SE at least a second chance to show how close it can come (if not beat) the combination CE/SE strategy described above.

I will adapt the above combination CE/SE strategy into a pure SE strategy such that (obviously) no cottage will ever be built. I plan to build The Pyramids and adopt Representation early to make up for some of the cottage generated research. I plan to start on the Great Artist farm earlier and increase the Population faster, hire more Artists, and attempt to have about 1.5-2.0 times as many GAs (if possible) when the PA is signed than the above combination CE/SE strategy.

Note that due to the reduced Research of the pure SE, especially since the Bureaucracy bonus doesn't affect it, the PA will be signed significantly later when using a pure SE. Roughly based on some calculations that Shoot the Moon made earlier in this thread (but without data for the best game by jesusin), I'd guess that about 1 extra GA per 15 turns later to PA date would be needed for the pure SE to reach the same Cultural win date as the combination CE/SE strategy (outlined above).

The best combination CE/SE strategy win date is 1822 AD (181 turns) with PA date of about 700 AD (145 turns). I'd guess that the latest PA turn I could afford with a pure SE would be 160 (1000 AD) and I'd probably need at least two GAs, not just one more. Any suggestions regarding pulling in the PA date or whether it is even possible to do via pure SE?

Do you have any suggestions that might make this pure SE strategy more viable?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[bshumbera]

In terms of early war, I think the best way would be to get 40 turns of shared war. If someone manages to do that, I see them winning this gauntlet.

In my very first attempt at this gauntlet, I managed to get 40 turns of shared war, however I also researched to military tradition thinking that I wouldn't get 40 turns. Ultimately, I never used a defensive pact to get the PA. Clearly, my finish date wasn't among the leaders, and frankly wasn't my best date. However, I wanted to mention that it IS possible to get 40 turns of shared war in this gauntlet.

 

[bshumbera]

Reading over Sun Tzu Wu's post, it seems things are really layed out well. I finished in 1924 AD so I'm not among the top leaders but I'd like to add a few things I did differently than spelled out here.

1) I whipped every one of the early buildings (i.e. library, granary, aqueduct, theater, temples, university, and monastaries) and chopped the wonders (i.e. Parthenon, Oxford, Globe Theater, Hermitage, and Sistine Chapel).

2) I used mapfinder to keep starts with 5+ floodplains and then cottaged all of these to get excess food and provide good farms after biology.

3) I beelined to MM before biology since chemistry will obsolete the Parthenon. Not sure if this was the correct course of action though since I usually was getting about 130 great people points before fully farming over cottages and researching biology and close to 200 points after.

 

[Shoot the Moon]

Great write up Sun Tzu Wu. Only thing I have to say about it is that Mercantilism may be more effective than Environmentalism in some cases.

An interesting analysis of the what it takes to make up for a later PA would come from analyzing yDiamond's game in comparison to mine. He got the PA 7 turns later than I did, but finished on the same date. Especially considering yDiamond did an education slingshot. EDIT: upon further analysis of that game, yDiamond got Military Tradition in 200 B.C. but wasn't able to sign the DP until 450 A.D. That game could have been killer.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Reading over Sun Tzu Wu's post, it seems things are really layed out well. I finished in 1924 AD so I'm not among the top leaders but I'd like to add a few things I did differently than spelled out here.

bshumbera, thanks for your very useful comments.

1) I whipped every one of the early buildings (i.e. library, granary, aqueduct, theater, temples, university, and monastaries) and chopped the wonders (i.e. Parthenon, Oxford, Globe Theater, Hermitage, and Sistine Chapel).

Whipping is especially powerful after building Globe Theater, so that whipping induced unhappiness is no longer a concern.

2) I used mapfinder to keep starts with 5+ floodplains and then cottaged all of these to get excess food and provide good farms after biology.

I agree that several flood plains tiles is a key part of a superior starting position that as I stated must include at least one food resource (preferably Corn) and one commerce resource (preferably Gems).

3) I beelined to MM before biology since chemistry will obsolete the Parthenon. Not sure if this was the correct course of action though since I usually was getting about 130 great people points before fully farming over cottages and researching biology and close to 200 points after.

Thanks for pointing out that researching Biology will require Chemistry which obsoletes the Parthenon. To minimize the loss of Parthenon, research Biology right after Chemistry and have several farms ready to increase the growth rate and the population by several points very quickly so that more that enough Artists can be quickly hired to _more_ than make up for the lost of the Parthenon.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Great write up Sun Tzu Wu. Only thing I have to say about it is that Mercantilism may be more effective than Environmentalism in some cases.

I should have added to the Financial CE/SE strategy that a switch to Mercantilism should be done as soon as possible for the additional GPP via a hired Artist, at the cost of International trade routes for the less profitable Domestic trade routes.

The OCC city will often be very short on Health, and Environmentalism's +6 Health bonus is well worth sacrificing Mercantilism, since it will allow your city to support 6 more Populations points. Think of this as three more flood plains farmers supporting three more Artists.

However, as Shoot the Moon states, it may be better to stick with Mercantilism, especially if you are not completely ready to fully utilize the benefits of Environmentalism's +6 Health bonus.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

This strategy outline has been split off of the pure SE post (#129) it is was originally created in and minor improvements were made to it based on feedback by bshumbera and Shoot the Moon plus my own additions/corrections.

Combination CE/SE Strategy Outline for G-Minor 32:

There is a clear consensus that Financial is the favored secondary trait for the Player Civ. The primary combination CE/SE strategy utilizing the Financial trait, credited primarily to jesusin, is:

Abbreviations: r=Research focused; c=Culture focused; o=Optional

0) Player should be Elizabeth (either Vanilla or Warlords) for the critical Philosophical trait (SE part) and Financial trait (CE part). Starting position should contain as many flood plains and food resources (health boni) as possible plus optional 1-2 early commerce tiles (like Gems).
1) Build a Worker that starts with improving a Food Resource and Commerce (Gems) Resource.
2) Beeline Pottery, build/work cottages on all non-Resource tiles with 2+ food.
3r) Beeline Writing, build a Library and work two Scientists, generate a Great Scientist that creates an Academy.
3c) Build the Parthenon for its +50% GPP bonus to build Great Artists faster. Chopping is great to rush this wonder and those listed in 4c, but may want to leave 2 or 4 forests in fat cross for health bonus; most forests chopped will be inside borders and outside fat cross; note that totally (no roads) unimproved tiles may spawn new forests.
3o) Build Monastery of each Religion for later Missionary spamming without OR.
4r) Beeline Code of Laws & Civil Service and adopt Caste System & Bureaucracy. When all cottage tiles and improved, non-hammer Resource tiles are worked, the remaining population works hammer tiles when building something important and works as Artists otherwise.
4c) Build Wonders with Great Artist and Great Engineer GPPs; GAs and GEs are saved until the PA is signed.
4o) Spam your Religion across the Map via Missionaries.
5r) Beeline Liberalism such that Military Tradition can be selected as the free Technology and sign a Defensive Pact with your future (planned) PA Partner.
5c) Give or trade Technologies that unlock Wonders for your future (planned) PA Partner so he has a head start in building them. Ideally, you and your PA Partner will build all the World Wonders. Get Banking to use Mercantilism to add an Artist. Get Drama to build Theatre and Globe Theatre which allows happiness resources to be traded for health resources and unrestricted whipping.
5o) Spam all your Religions to all your future (planned) PA Partner's cities via Missionaries, so he can build the corresponding Temples in each and build the corresponding generic Cathedrals (meaning any of the +50% Religious building).
6r) Beeline Communism and sign the PA.
6c) Attempt to bribe your future PA Partner into using Free Speech just prior to signing the PA. Start building your Great Artist farm, but continue working all cottages.
7r) Your PA Partner will take over most of the Research. Beeline Biology and start farming over cottages. The farms will soon gain +1 Food from Biology.
7c) Determine the best two PA Partner Culture (rate) cities (carefully consider Culture multipliers - city with Hermitage should usually be included) and settle GAs in each such that they will go Legendary at about the same time. Do 8c.
8r) Beeline Radio.
8c) Check your PA Partner's two Culture cities and use a GE to rush any useful Wonders or Cathedrals started in them recently.
9r No UN) Either research Mass Media and keep UN permanently in your build quene, but never built it, or avoid Mass Media entirely.
9r UN) Research Mass Media and build the UN. Select and pass Free Speech resolution. Before this, try to increase your PA Partners population and your Diplomatic scrore with all other AIs, so you can avoid losing via Diplomatic win.
9c) Do 8c.
10r) Focus on Medicine, Refrigeration, Ecology, Genetics for Health (Hospital, Supermarket, Environmentalism) and Fusion for GE. Switch to Environmentalism ASAP to further increase Population so more Artists can be hired.
10c) Keep improving Great Artist farm, but as the win date approaches, the next Great Artist may not be born early enough to make a significant difference (can't shave off even a single turn from the projected win date).

Please provide suggestions for improving the above strategy outline - either improved format, or suggested additions or corrections.

If you provided an idea to the G-Minor 32 (this) thread that is included in the above outline, but you weren't credited, please let me know so I can add you to the list of contributors.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Shoot the Moon]

Instead of "Beeline Communism," I think 6r should instead say, "Research Communism within 40 turns after signing DP." No point in having Communism 20 turns early when you really didn't need it.

 

[jesusin]

Please provide suggestions for improving the above strategy outline - either improved format, or suggested additions or corrections.

Oooooooooh!
With such a guide available my date will be beaten very soon


Some additional ideas to make it even closer to perfection:
1.- I never run Pacifism in my game. That's obviously a mistake. Pacifism must be used.
2.- Don't research Biology. Losing the Parthenon is paintful. How may farms would you need to just compensate for the loss of the 50% bonus?
3.- Don't research envionmentalism... in fact, don't research anything at all after MM. The idea here is to not make new buildings available to your partner, so that his better cities run out of things to build and keep on building WW.

 

[bshumbera]

1.- I never run Pacifism in my game. That's obviously a mistake. Pacifism must be used.
2.- Don't research Biology. Losing the Parthenon is painful. How may farms would you need to just compensate for the loss of the 50% bonus?
3.- Don't research environmentalism... in fact, don't research anything at all after MM. The idea here is to not make new buildings available to your partner, so that his better cities run out of things to build and keep on building WW.

1) I always assumed pacifism was a given. Although, it's worth mentioning that the +25% hammer bonus to building production given for OR is helpful for chopping the wonders. I usually switched to pacifism and caste system at the same time since I'll have done most if not all of the whipping I planned to do by the time pacifism becomes available. If not, I delay pacifism until I have done so. Switching to both simultaneously only causes 1 turn of anarchy.

2) I'm not sure here. I never tried to farm over the cottages without first having biology so I'm not sure whether you will get more artists points with or without the Parthenon. Someone should do the math. I always farmed over and had biology with my 5+ floodplain starts and could get near 180 to 200 artist points per turn. Starving the city could bring me near 275 to 300 points.

3) Obviously, you won't be able to run environmentalism if you don't get biology first as in point 2. I agree that research past MM will allow your partner to build more buildings, they almost always build hospitals and bunkers once available. I tried to avoid research in my games, but I don't see that there is any way to prevent your partner from researching new techs. I guess you could micromanage your AI partner and have them research each available tech until it is 1 turn away from finishing and then ask them to switch. Even this will eventually lead them to learning new techs. The other thing you should do is avoid all tech trading.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Instead of "Beeline Communism," I think 6r should instead say, "Research Communism within 40 turns after signing DP." No point in having Communism 20 turns early when you really didn't need it.

6r should read exactly as Shoot the Moon suggested above:

6r) Research Communism within 40 turns after signing DP and sign the PA.

1.- I never run Pacifism in my game. That's obviously a mistake. Pacifism must be used.

1) I always assumed pacifism was a given. Although, it's worth mentioning that the +25% hammer bonus to building production given for OR is helpful for chopping the wonders. I usually switched to pacifism and caste system at the same time since I'll have done most if not all of the whipping I planned to do by the time pacifism becomes available. If not, I delay pacifism until I have done so. Switching to both simultaneously only causes 1 turn of anarchy.

The strategy outline doesn't say anything about researching Philosophy and adpoting Pacifism. The following step should be added to correct this:

4.1r) Beeline Philosophy & adopt Pacifism.

2.- Don't research Biology. Losing the Parthenon is painful. How may farms would you need to just compensate for the loss of the 50% bonus?

2) I'm not sure here. I never tried to farm over the cottages without first having biology so I'm not sure whether you will get more artists points with or without the Parthenon. Someone should do the math. I always farmed over and had biology with my 5+ floodplain starts and could get near 180 to 200 artist points per turn. Starving the city could bring me near 275 to 300 points.

I suggest replacing 7r as it is currently stated ...

7r) Your PA Partner will take over most of the Research. Beeline Biology and start farming over cottages. The farms will soon gain +1 Food from Biology.

with 7r and 7o (optional) as follows ...

7r) Your PA Partner will take over most of the Research. Start farming over (all) cottages to support more Artists. Each pair of farmed over cottages will support one more Artist. Be sure that net Food (check Health) will be positive or at least stable (0) after all Artists are added.

7o) If you (will) have enough excess Food/extra Health and are farming over at least 6 cottages, you have the viable option of beelining Chemistry (obsoleting Parthenon) & Biology and adding 3+ more Artists (The farms will soon gain +1 Food from Biology). Do this if you don't have The Parthenon. Otherwise, recalculate GPP without the +50% bonus plus the expected number of additional Artists and if your calculated GPP is significantly greater
than the current GPP, this optional step is reasonable, but note that due to the loss of the Parthenon effect, your GPP will dip below current levels for a few turns until your capital grows enough to support the new Artists.

3.- Don't research environmentalism... in fact, don't research anything at all after MM. The idea here is to not make new buildings available to your partner, so that his better cities run out of things to build and keep on building WW.

3) Obviously, you won't be able to run environmentalism if you don't get biology first as in point 2. I agree that research past MM will allow your partner to build more buildings, they almost always build hospitals and bunkers once available. I tried to avoid research in my games, but I don't see that there is any way to prevent your partner from researching new techs. I guess you could micromanage your AI partner and have them research each available tech until it is 1 turn away from finishing and then ask them to switch. Even this will eventually lead them to learning new techs. The other thing you should do is avoid all tech trading.

Step 10r needs more work and being at the later dates it is harder to detail, but I suggest the changing it from ...

10r) Focus on Medicine, Refrigeration, Ecology, Genetics for Health (Hospital, Supermarket, Environmentalism) and Fusion for GE. Switch to Environmentalism ASAP to further increase Population so more Artists can be hired.

to ...

10r) Focus on Medicine, Refrigeration, Ecology, Genetics for Health (Hospital, Supermarket, Environmentalism) and Fusion for GE.

10o) Switch to Environmentalism ASAP to further increase Population so more Artists can be hired.

Thus, making the part about Environmentalism optional.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Shoot the Moon]

My suspision is that getting biology will almost always outweigh losing the Pathenon. Going from a 250% bonus to a 200% bonus isn't as major as getting more (in my games almost 2 times more) artists at 200% bonus.

I like the stated tech goals after MM, with a few suggestions. We will want the Statue of Liberty if possible for the free specialist (for our PA partner also) so Democracy should be a goal. I didn't get fusion in my game, which was an error. I went for the techs you mentioned, then to Future Tech for the further health benefits. All of that was on PA partner research.

Jesusin, I'm not sure you're date will be beaten. Your 40 years ahead of second place. I pretty much followed the strategy outlined, AND got extremely lucky, but still finished 40 years behind you.