Gallipoli

[embryodead]

P.S. Wheat removed and will appear in 1299? After pushing the Wine northward Gallipoli and Adrianopolis got their fair share of food. Why to remove Wheat? Gallipoli represents entire "Thracian Chersonese" area, not just the city itself, so it's not a big deal if it gets a little large. Wheat appearing out of nowhere in 1299 looks less realistic solution. One Wheat resource will not overpower human player or AI... Plus I am not sure if SoI has a precedent of resources appearing/disappearing for gameplay purposes...

Actually it happens a lot, for example:
- several resources appear near Agra when Mughals spawn (before that, the spot is barren to discourage anyone from building there)
- new resources appear near Ardabil & Esfahan before Safavid spawn
- many resources disappear from Nubia, Egypt, Levant & Mesopotamia over time for balance purposes

IIRC, similar stuff happens in RFC, like the coming of Dutch cattle. Resources appearing doesn't just mean they're suddenly "discovered", here it represents the fact that Turks settled it en masse, after the area was abandoned. It bothered me that it got bigger than Adrianople and most cities in Anatolia. Right now it's no worse than Sampsounta was.

0.4 is Uploaded, but since a lot of barely tested stuff was added, and Bakuel is coming up with a great Indian unit set, another release is planned for January.

 

[vra379971]

Yup.

The easiest solution would be just to give that city a special river benefit bonus.

 

[blizzrd]

Kallipolis is such a horrible city in the game. A total drain on Byzantine economy which gives nothing back whatsoever. It has no production or food bonuses and yet cannot be given away/destroyed without land-locking Constantinople from the Mediterranean.

Because all of the hills around Kallipolis are forested, it takes a very long time before these forests can be chopped and the hills can be mined - resulting in a pathetic production output for almost all of the meaningful Byzantine years. Even Amastris can out-produce Kallipolis, which is pretty tragic.

 

[embryodead]

Kallipolis is such a horrible city in the game. A total drain on Byzantine economy which gives nothing back whatsoever. It has no production or food bonuses and yet cannot be given away/destroyed without land-locking Constantinople from the Mediterranean.

Because all of the hills around Kallipolis are forested, it takes a very long time before these forests can be chopped and the hills can be mined - resulting in a pathetic production output for almost all of the meaningful Byzantine years. Even Amastris can out-produce Kallipolis, which is pretty tragic.

Well, do you think it matters much when you take Samsounta into consideration? It was equally bad and Kallipolis replaced it. Also, do you think removing a forest from one hill would be enough to consider the city usable?

 

[vra379971]

Well, do you think it matters much when you take Samsounta into consideration? It was equally bad and Kallipolis replaced it. Also, do you think removing a forest from one hill would be enough to consider the city usable?

It think a workable solution might be settling the city with a free engineer or two?

 

[2phunkey4u]

Free engineers are out of the question.
In-game measures: master blacksmith event, settle GEs and GPs, build Kizil Kule, Al Jazari's Workshop,...
I suggest having the wheat in there from the start so one can workshop adjacent plains tiles. The city does worse than Samsounta currently.

 

[blizzrd]

Well, do you think it matters much when you take Samsounta into consideration?

Samsounta had several benefits that Kallipolis does not have: (i) on a river, (ii) access to grassland tiles which are next to rivers (i.e. 3 food) and (iii) unforested grassland hills.

Currently the only way to get Kallipolis going at all is to rob Adrianopolis of some of the tiles that it needs to work to be able to work all those plains and plains-hills.

It was equally bad and Kallipolis replaced it.

At the moment, Kallipolis is not a fair exchange for Samsounta. I'm happy enough with the exchange in principle, but the balance is not quite right for now.

Also, do you think removing a forest from one hill would be enough to consider the city usable?

Removing a forest would certainly be an improvement. I think that the plains immediately to the north of Kallipolis should also become a Grassland, but I think this is where the Wheat spawns? Having access to an early Grassland-river would make Kallipolis much closer to what Samsounta was, at least prior to the chopping of forests.

Ultimately, I think the extra Hills that Samsounta could eventually work will still leave Kallipolis as a slightly poorer option. That's not too bad, but early in Byzantine era Kallipolis is currently a much poorer city.

 

[vra379971]

Free engineers are out of the question.
In-game measures: master blacksmith event, settle GEs and GPs, build Kizil Kule, Al Jazari's Workshop,...
I suggest having the wheat in there from the start so one can workshop adjacent plains tiles. The city does worse than Samsounta currently.

As long as it does not add to GP/culture, I really don't see the problem. Ultimately, the best solution might be to just give that city some modifiers to produce what is missing.

 

[Tigranes]

How about we just give that city some seafood and remove the forest? Clams and Crabs provide less food than fish, so the city will not get that big. After 1300 Wheat can appear and Crabs get exhausted

 

[sforza]

You really should consider the rivers for Gallipoli and particularly for Constantinople. It makes conquering those cities that much more difficult. RFC:E uses them for Venice, and it makes the city more of a challenge. Even if it looks a bit odd, I think a lot of players naturally expect some water between Constantinople and Asia, even if only one that grants a water defense bonus. More intuitive > prettier looking.