Game of Thrones / ASOIAF Scenario for BTS

[AdrienIer]

Actually 1 turn = 1 or 2 weeks would be appropriate IMO. But I agree that 2 moves for infantry and 5 for cavalry seems better than 1/2 : this way you can use hit and run tactics with cavalry against infantry. Siege engines should also have less moves than infantry so only 1 move for them would make war tactics way more realistic.

On the other subject you raise, Pef, I think the units should not have such a malus in hills (just no bonus) and only 10% in snow (your opponent also feels the cold), but more importantly those bonus should not apply when actively fortified, since for example it's very easy to fortify a hill against invasion. To represent that, I would suggest doubling the fortify defense bonus in hills and forest (in fine I suppose 50% bonus on hill, 25% in forest as in plains and ~10% in snow would be good at full fortification).

Also lastly there should not be any line of sight in forests IMO, to allow for ambush or surprise attacks.

 

[Cosamaru]

Dang, I wish I had modding experience just so I could help with this. ASoIaF is my absolute favorite. I also created an account just so I could I could post here.

I can't tell if you're still figuring out the Dorne issue that you mentioned on the other version of this, but I had a thought. What if Doran Martell had a custom leader trait that gave Dornish "cities" increased food/production/commerce on desert and floodplain tiles. This could allow you to make Dorne mostly/entirely the way it should be without handicapping them, and it would also reflect the difficulty that other forces (Highgarden and the Targaryens) have when entering Dorne. If they conquered any dornish lands, they wouldn't get nearly as much productivity out of it.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Dang, I wish I had modding experience just so I could help with this. ASoIaF is my absolute favorite. I also created an account just so I could I could post here.

Welcome to CFC, and yeah, ASoIaF is awesome

I can't tell if you're still figuring out the Dorne issue that you mentioned on the other version of this, but I had a thought. What if Doran Martell had a custom leader trait that gave Dornish "cities" increased food/production/commerce on desert and floodplain tiles. This could allow you to make Dorne mostly/entirely the way it should be without handicapping them, and it would also reflect the difficulty that other forces (Highgarden and the Targaryens) have when entering Dorne. If they conquered any dornish lands, they wouldn't get nearly as much productivity out of it.

Sounds nice, I second this

 

[AdrienIer]

Wouldn't it be unbalanced for Dorne to be the only one with a special (and powerful) trait ?
Wouldn't a unique power like in RFC (you know what I mean AbsintheRed ) for each faction be better ? The code would be basically the same as the one for Incas in RFC : Dorne get better deserts, Riverlands get better rivers (productivity should be lacking around there), Lannister more gold, the vale better mountains, the north better tundra (not snow or the land would get too good), and perhaps the stormlands better military production (they seem to be a great military powerhouse, all the rebellions seem to start there), the Reach something to represent their marriage politics like better relations with everyone and the Ironmen something about the sea.

And welcome to CFC !

 

[Cosamaru]

That does make sense to extend such things to the rest of them. Especially with the Arryns, Starks, and Tullys, since as you pointed out they are all limited to large amounts of one terrain type, much like Dorne. Stormlands too, considering how much larger the Reach is.

Also, considering how terribly exposed the Riverlands would be otherwise, perhaps it would be good if the rivers could only be crossed at certain points, to reflect the issue of the fords. (I have a vague memory of the game already having a bonus for defending across rivers, but I can't remember.)

 

[AdrienIer]

You are right, there is a 25% bonus for defending behind a river, but IIRC TheBeast was planning on making the rivers (at least the trident) coastal so that it wouldn't be possible to cross them on foot except at certain points (like the twins).

 

[Pef]

river with coastal would also mean warships and transports could sail up a river and bombard/amphibious attack the cities on the river ...

would be even more realistic ..

 

[xooll]

For the river crossing issue, how about this: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=278332

 

[Jusos2108]

This is great idea and I was thinking to do something like this myself!

Anyways, are you familiar with the Fall from Heaven II mod? It would be easy to base the GoT mod to FfHII. For example, the tech tree basicly ends in Middle Ages, there are lots of units, including heroes, that fit GoT perfectly and there are lots of civs that can be used almost directly for GoT civ. For example, Doviello = Northmen/King of the North, Ilians = Wildlings, Nightwatch can use Shadowrider and Nightwatch units, Hippus = Dothraki, Malakim = Dorne, Lanun = Ironmen, etc. The leaderheads are also much better for Got than in basic BTS.

Some of the religions are also perfect fits, Octopus Overlords = Drowned God, Fellowship of Leaves = Old Gods, Order = Seven Gods, R'hollir (whatever) = Empyrean or Ashen Veil

I'd like to make it so that the night's watch cannot build units. All of their soldiers and workers would need to be "recruited". The way this would work is that the night's watch would be given access to special units called 'recruiters'. These units would be based on the Great Merchant unit in that once they get to a friendly city, they will be given an option to perform a mission there (instead of 'trade mission' that yields gold, he will be able to 'Recruit' which yields units). The farther and more populated/cultured the city, the more units will be awarded (of course the problem is that the farther you go to recruit, the farther those units have to travel in order to get back to the wall).

For instance in FfHII some units can cast recruit, which gives you units per the city's population. The unit loses its ability after doing it once, but regains it after killing a demon, which in GoT could be changed to a wildling.

 

[AdrienIer]

There is actually an existing modmod for FfH II based on ASoIaF, but it seems on hold right now. It also has the problem of not being compatible with any Westeros map... So we can only hope that TheBeast will soon have something to feed us with

 

[AdrienIer]

This is getting long... Are all the moderators on holidays ?

Anyway I've had an idea about the wall, but I'm not sure of how doable/good it is. I saw in The Road To War mod that the ligne maginot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line for those interested) was represented by units with strong defense and no capacity to attack. Since the wall is not totally impassable (just very hard to climb, and almost impossible when units are on top of it), why not make it a unit that cannot move, that multiplies by ~10 the strength of the units on top of it when attacked, and that would have a certain strength when not defended. That way the night's watch would have to send patrols on the wall to defend it (the wall could have a big line of sight to see attackers coming from very far).
I'm not so happy with the mountain (impassable) way it is represented right now, so that might be a solution.

 

[The_J]

This is getting long... Are all the moderators on holidays ?

Where, what, why? What do you need?

 

[AdrienIer]

TheBeast has released a 2nd version of the scenario and we have been waiting for ten days for it to be accepted by you or another moderator...

 

[The_J]

Ah, uh, sorry, not within my responsibilities. The name is wrong, it's in fact an admin queue, and they are again short of time, sorry :/.

 

[TheBeast]

Hey all,

Sorry for the lack of posts on my part this last week; i have been away on vacation. I am glad to see all the interest here and I will definitely be looking over all the ideas that have been brought up.

I'll also be posting a status update soon as well as a draft of the tech tree. Just a heads up, the tech tree will definitely be shorter than vanilla. It will consist of 3 or 4 eras (rather than the usual 6), and in the War of the Five Kings scenario you will most likely start about halfway through the tech tree. This is to represent the limited technological advancement throughout the books and in westeros in general. The game speed will be a slightly modified marathon. You will get a better idea once ive posted the tree.

-beast

 

[d_mess]

Im a big aSoIaF fan! Too bad I cant mod and can barely handle worldbuilder haha

This looks really cool, im looking forward to trying out the scenarios you guys are working on.


Random suggestions:

-The difference in early-game to late-game units should mostly not be in base-strength. The armys early in the series were probably MORE potent than later. At the very least everybody should have access to the "knight" right from the beginning. It makes the most sense for Techs to unlock special promotions, and a stronger economy, than simply let you build pikes instead of spears, maces instead of axes. If promotions are heavily moddable you could make some really cool ones, unlocked by a logically-named technology.

Eg "The north remembers: unlocks snowshoe promotion for units (no movement penalty in snow), reduces the unhappiness from calling your banners (drafting), and lets you work 3 food from enemy-occupied tiles.



-Its a great idea to give leaders special traits so that they can be productive from their unique geography, and to limit how much an invader gets out of somebody elses territory. Dorne should be able to function on PURE desert, but it should have enough other tiles that its still somewhat worth it to invade, same with the north, vale, etc

 

[xooll]

Not to toot my own horn, but my Hardship mod might make a good addition--units take damage from harsh environments, like snow, tundra, and desert. There are promotions to prevent it, though: wildlings and Night's Watch get Arctic Survivalist, Dornish get Desert Survivalist, etc.

 

[TheBeast]

Not to toot my own horn, but my Hardship mod might make a good addition--units take damage from harsh environments, like snow, tundra, and desert. There are promotions to prevent it, though: wildlings and Night's Watch get Arctic Survivalist, Dornish get Desert Survivalist, etc.

I like it. The more realism, the better. I'll look into getting that set up. Thanks!

 

[TheBeast]

I also want to point out that while technologies will be a part of the game, the key focus will be placed on combat tactics (controlling better terrain and strongholds and winning victories over your enemies) and diplomacy (getting other houses to join your cause and declare war on your enemies). I will probably be making other civ leaders more fickle (their threshold for open borders, defensive pacts, and declaring war will be lower, making it easier to get them to switch sides). I would also like to try and make it very difficult to win the game without the help of some allies, making diplomacy more important (i want to try and capture the 'game of thrones' as best i can).

 

[TheBeast]

-The difference in early-game to late-game units should mostly not be in base-strength. The armys early in the series were probably MORE potent than later. At the very least everybody should have access to the "knight" right from the beginning. It makes the most sense for Techs to unlock special promotions, and a stronger economy, than simply let you build pikes instead of spears, maces instead of axes. If promotions are heavily moddable you could make some really cool ones, unlocked by a logically-named technology.

I definitely agree. The way i see it right now, the scenarios will be where the most accurate gameplay will take place (most techs already available to players). These scenarios will probably be:
-War of the Five Kings
-Robert's Rebellion
-Aegon's Landing
and maybe these which will be based on a map of Essos (if i have the time/desire):
-The Free Cities
-The Dothraki
-Valyria

and perhaps one general scenario that includes both westeros and essos that will be non-canon.

Free play will be available (starting from the Dawn Age), but will of course end up being rather different from the books (eg. the wonder "The Iron Throne" being built in highgarden and the like, similar to a normal civ game).