Game of Thrones / ASOIAF Scenario for BTS

[zbgayumn]

This thread has been quiet for about 2.5 weeks. Is the project still moving along to create this mod? I'd really like to see the finished product. I'm afraid I wouldn't be much help with modding, though.

 

[TheBeast]

This thread has been quiet for about 2.5 weeks. Is the project still moving along to create this mod? I'd really like to see the finished product. I'm afraid I wouldn't be much help with modding, though.

sorry for the silence. I've been super busy lately and haven't had as much time as i'd like to work on this. Expect an update sometime in the next week or two though as I think i should have some time to work on it this weekend. ill keep everyone posted.

 

[thekingmob]

WARNING: SPOILERS

I think that the scenario would play better if:

1) Playable civilizations weren't the various regions of Westeros but the actual five claimants plus neutral Dorne and Vale so that playable civs are (according to the Storm of Swords appendix): The King of the North and Trident (The North and Riverlands), The King on the Iron Throne (Crownlands and Westerlands), The King in the Narrow Sea (Dragonstone), The King in Highgarden (Stormlands and The Reach), The King of the Iron Islands, , Dorne, and The Vale of Arryn.

2) The scenario should begin after the Battle of the Camps, when Robb has liberated Riverrun. This cuts Tywin Lannister's forces off from the west and makes the scenario more immediately about warfare (and let's face it: marching Robb through the North and down the Neck is a little tedious). Stannis should be ready to sail on Storm's End (or King's Landing) , Renly should be ready to march on King's Landing, Tyrion(!) should be a warlord, and Dorne or the Vale can shift the tide of warfare.

I might just start working on this if TheBeast is too busy.

 

[AdrienIer]

I'm not so sure about having Riverlands and the North merge... Edmure seems to spend a lot of his time doing things on his own (like attacking Tywin), totally bypassing Robb's authority. I'd favor making the Riverlands Vassals to the North rather than part of the North.
The second problem with this is that Renly would be far too powerful (at least if we stick to the forces in the Books), and there is no mechanism in Civ that could recreate what happens to him in A Clash Of Kings.
Don't open the spoiler unless you've finished book 2

Spoiler :

Also his territories and armies then split, with the Reach going for the Lannisters and Storm's end going over to Stannis. That is probably impossible in Civ terms.

 

[thekingmob]

I'm not so sure about having Riverlands and the North merge... Edmure seems to spend a lot of his time doing things on his own (like attacking Tywin), totally bypassing Robb's authority. I'd favor making the Riverlands Vassals to the North rather than part of the North.

I'm not going for a complete faith to the books here, I'm going for what make sense for a smooth playing scenario. The North doesn't really have the tiles for sustained warfare and you haveto march their forces down the Neck. Robb would be pretty unplayable if it was so easy to pin him up in the North where White Harbor's the only real port and you'd have to sail all the way around the Vale to get things done. Moreover Edmure making an uninformed tactical decision (no one told him Robb's plan) isn't Edmure taking the Riverlands for his own rule, especially since he's Robb's uncle.

There's also the matter of the Westerlands and Crownlands being united under the Iron Throne civ. King's Landing really just has the gold cloaks and some Lannister retainers. If the scenario starts with Tywin already in the east, cut off from the west, than he can either pursue Robb or promptly defend King's Landing. And if we're talking the books, there's no way the West and the Crown would be distinct political entities while Tywin Lannister lived.

The second problem with this is that Renly would be far too powerful (at least if we stick to the forces in the Books), and there is no mechanism in Civ that could recreate what happens to him in A Clash Of Kings.
Don't open the spoiler unless you've finished book 2

Spoiler :

Also his territories and armies then split, with the Reach going for the Lannisters and Storm's end going over to Stannis. That is probably impossible in Civ terms.

I'm not sure what tells you I intended to stick to the books as close as possible in my conception. What happens to Renly in the books is irrelevant as to his starting situation in Civ4. Your point about his starting situation is that he starts too powerful but that doesn't entail he'd plow through the game. In terms of Civ4 play he's surrounded by enemies: Dorne can come up from the south (independently or in alliance with the Iron Throne [its Civ4, not the books]), Stannis came come from the east (and if we're talking the books that's the first thing he did), Greyjoy can come from the West, Ser Stafford (assuming he's a warlord) could come from the north out of Lannisport, etc. Yes, Renly has a strong starting force that could easily march on King's Landing but committing to that entails leaving the entire Reach and Stormlands open to attack. Moreover, it's a war, there's usually a side which appears strongest initially but that can be overcome, that's part of the fun. This is the kind of balance I want to strive for, and whether or not it'll be accepted will be told how much people enjoy the scenario than the theory of it.

 

[cjhard]

So how's this coming along?

 

[TheBeast]

Ok so I deeply apologize for the delay, I know a bunch of you are eager for the mod/updated scenario.

I've been pretty busy, but I also decided I wanted to finish the books before I continued modding (don't worry though, I'm about halfway through ADWD so I should be done soon).

The reason for this is that I want the mod to be as accurate/current as possible and I just don't think I can do that until I've read everything.

I will keep you all updated.
Thanks for your patience


EDIT: Also, quick question: does anyone know who House Massey of Stonedance declared for? Stannis? Joffrey? I can't remember.
I am also thinking of making the Westerlands hold the Crownlands/King's Landing (for the War of the 5 Kings scenario). What does everyone think?

beast

 

[cjhard]

Well, there were only two mentions of Massey in all of ACoK and both were in relation to Massey's Hook and how Stannis' fleet must pass it to get to Blackwater Bay. There was never any mention of House Massey defending against Stannis so I think it may be safe to assume that House Massey declared for Stannis. That being said, they're such a minor house that I'd have to wonder if there's any point of including them in the scenario.

 

[AdrienIer]

Don't worry TheBeast, if we think you're too slow reading the books we'll spoil them for you

I think you might be right about the Crownlands being part of the Westerlands, because in fact Tywin has the real power. Or they could be vassals of the W-lands.

On an other subject I've found a mod for Medieval 2 Total War about Westeros (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=721 for those interested) that feels just right when you play it (it's only alpha right now, I tried the Starks which are more or less done and polished). Civ4 and M2TW are really different so there is no comparing, but some of their ideas might be brought in like the "claim the throne" option.

 

[TheBeast]

Don't worry TheBeast, if we think you're too slow reading the books we'll spoil them for you

LOL. Oh that would be awful haha.

I've played Westeros Total War. Solid mod so far, cant wait until the 1.0. I've also played the 'Clash of Kings' mod for Mount and Blade Warband which is really fun also.

As far as house massey goes, I want to include stonedance on the map, I just don't know who should control it... stannis I guess?

 

[cjhard]

Well, its never explicitly said who House Massey declared for, but on top of what I've already said about it, House Bar Emmon of Sharp Point declared for Stannis, and considering Sharp Point's close proximity to Stonedance, that's another indication that Massey declared for Stannis.

 

[TheBeast]

Well, its never explicitly said who House Massey declared for, but on top of what I've already said about it, House Bar Emmon of Sharp Point declared for Stannis, and considering Sharp Point's close proximity to Stonedance, that's another indication that Massey declared for Stannis.

Awesome. Thanks!

 

[cjhard]

Also, playing the scenario, I've noticed that Dorne begins without any gold, and many of the mines in the westerlands are without routes. Is this deliberate? Also, in regards to the map being unrevealed, this doesn't make much sense as all the major houses should some kind of idea about what Westeros looks like and who controls what area.

 

[TheBeast]

Also, playing the scenario, I've noticed that Dorne begins without any gold, and many of the mines in the westerlands are without routes. Is this deliberate? Also, in regards to the map being unrevealed, this doesn't make much sense as all the major houses should some kind of idea about what Westeros looks like and who controls what area.

The missing routes on the mines and lack of gold for Dorne was not deliberate. I will adjust this in the next update.

As for the revealed map, we tried it completely revealed in the first release, and the general consensus was that (while accurate) it detracted from the gameplay experience and caused certain AI problems. For this reason, I will leave the map unrevealed except for the location of certain important cities (e.g. everyone knows the location of King's Landing, Oldtown, Sunspear, Lannisport, etc.).

 

[TheBeast]

ok another question for you all:

There is a very large area of the reach (bordered by bitterbridge, tumbleton, silverhill and golden grove) that has remained largely empty. as i want this scenario to be more about conquest and diplomacy and less about colonization and technology, I really do want there to be few places in westeros where new cities can be built (this of course is also a big problem with the north). How would you recommend I handle it?

A few options I've thought of:
1) Place fictional (non-canon) towns and castles in the free areas to prevent other factions from settling there.
2) Disable the building of settlers completely (for the mod, idk if this is possible for a scenario).
3) Just leave it and allow civs to colonize where they like.


Finally, should I do away with the Night's Watch and the whole area north of the wall? It seems like it causes more problems than its worth. While I love the idea of being able to play as the night's watch, it might be too much trouble to get it right. What does everyone think? Maybe I could just do a mini-scenario for the night's watch on it's own map?

-beast

ps: only a couple hundred pages til im done with ADWD. thanks again for your patience. I plan to finish it before the week is out.

 

[AbsintheRed]

IMO you should disable settlers
If city conquest is the only way to get new cities, the scenario will get more interesting
You can easily set the values for the AI leaders that they very rarely or never raze cities
On the other hand a few smaller razed cities every here and there after a long war looks realistic IMO, so you may even set a couple leaders raze probabily higher

 

[AdrienIer]

I agree with AbsintheRed on this, the timeframe of the war of the five kings doesn't fit with the concept of city founding.
About the Night's watch, I think that it doesn't fit well into the scenario, but might fit in the mod. Perhaps you could take them out of the scenario, but it would be great to have them included in the mod. A mini-scenario for them would be nice, but the time you spend on it is time you're not spending doing the mod, so basically if you have some free time and want to do such a scenario, feel free, but it's not obligatory.

 

[Calanthian]

Just straggled into this forum, and wanted to put my 'five cents' in:

IMO you should disable settlers
If city conquest is the only way to get new cities, the scenario will get more interesting

From a gaming point of view: just make them VERY VERY expensive, then there is still the option, but one must really want to..
Probably the same should then apply to the workers..

 

[Calanthian]

And some advise as a fellow modder:

* don't do too much with graphics, unless you are really dedicated.
Using graphics from other mods, or from within the game (another building) is way faster..

* You must decide what to do with science > and it probably best to build a new tech tree
* I think ideas can be loaned from the Ancient Mediterranean Mod (works with heroes, 2 UU's per civ, etc..)

* Religion is also a nut to be cracked: it is easiest to change icons, and needed techs, that doesn't change mechanics > that will only take a few days
> don't go changing the religion bonusses > that will take a lot of balancing..

 

[TheBeast]

And some advise as a fellow modder:

* don't do too much with graphics, unless you are really dedicated.
Using graphics from other mods, or from within the game (another building) is way faster..

* You must decide what to do with science > and it probably best to build a new tech tree
* I think ideas can be loaned from the Ancient Mediterranean Mod (works with heroes, 2 UU's per civ, etc..)

* Religion is also a nut to be cracked: it is easiest to change icons, and needed techs, that doesn't change mechanics > that will only take a few days
> don't go changing the religion bonusses > that will take a lot of balancing..

Thanks for the advice. I'm basically doing everything you wrote on here, except that I hadn't planned on borrowing anything from other mods. However, if I am having trouble on something, I will definitely ask about doing that.



Also, good news everyone: I just finished ADWD! So I will be starting to work on this mod again. First thing I plan on working on is finishing up the tech tree. I should have a draft out soon so you can all take a look and give me some feedback. I figure this is the most important part as it lays out EVERYTHING you'll be seeing in the mod (units, buildings, techs, religions, civics, etc.).

Something I am going to need help with once I've finished the tech tree: civilopedia descriptions. These will be needed for each civ, unit, religion and building (I will probably type up the civic descriptions and anything else that needs done). While these of course aren't super important, I figure this is a nice, easy, non-technical job than anyone who has read the books and has access to the internet can do. Let me know if you would be interested in writing any of these up.


Finally, I will be doing my best not to put anything in the mod that might spoil any plotlines. I intend for this mod to be accurate, but also not spoil anything major for those people who have only read the first book/seen the first season. If there are any concerns here once I've finished the tech tree, do let me know.

-beast

ps. as much as I wanted to include them in the mod, the night's watch have been scrapped for now. If i figure out a cool way to include them without imbalancing the game, I will do so, but for now they are out (wildings will still be present in the north in the form of barbarians, but they will just be a nuisance to the north, rather than a serious threat).