Game Walkthrough : Hannibal - Emperor (attempt 2)
- Thread starter Alhrath
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FlyingSwan
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This game is looking very interesting.I like the GLH in this situation too,as long as it doesn,nt mess up your very few mainland settler sites.Numidian cavalry are going to be useless against chinese PRO archers,the only sensible option to me is catapults.
Still you have some more exploring to do,Il wait to see what you reveal next.
Still you have some more exploring to do,Il wait to see what you reveal next.
Fippy
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I would think so, Qin is also 1 guy i do not trust at all..his war prep. check % are among the worst (70% on cautious and still 20% on pleased, for comparison that's same as Monty just that he builds more units but they are both aggressive).
I think on Empe you can annoy him well
FlyingSwan
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If the chinese leader was mao,its a different story,with Qin you have to expect a war unless he,s at friendly.Worker stealing on Qin could either be the best or the worst move.If he has a wandering archer and refuses peace your screwed.
Otoh if you take his worker it means you can secure your mainland citys by slowing him down.
On another hand worker stealing will destroy potential trade routes,with no open borders with Qin you could end up totally isolated from any trades-including resources.
alot to think about,(as I said)very interesting start..
Otoh if you take his worker it means you can secure your mainland citys by slowing him down.
On another hand worker stealing will destroy potential trade routes,with no open borders with Qin you could end up totally isolated from any trades-including resources.
alot to think about,(as I said)very interesting start..
Turn 15 [EDIT : went back in time on this]
A few turn later. I met Kubilai and Caesar (and the chinese is Mao, not Qin). BW is done and I have reachable copper (good new). I didn't stole the worker on gold (not sure good idea or not ... Felt it too risky).
The worker is 3 turns to be ready. I think the priority now is a settler, but I need to grow too to be able to wipe it. So maybe put some turns in a WB (or a warrior) then at pop 2, switch to settler and wipe it at nearest to 69 ?
It seems that the GLH make unanimity, so it would be my next focus. In this case, Sailing -> Masonery straight ? The only thing against that would be the necessity to claim land before, I guess. Firstly the capital would maybe not be able to build a LH directly because it has to build settler, secondly the second city will maybe need the monument to claim a important ressource (copper?).
On this subject, I feel that my second city should claim it. If Mao settle near it, I'm doomed with the incoming war ...
A few turn later. I met Kubilai and Caesar (and the chinese is Mao, not Qin). BW is done and I have reachable copper (good new). I didn't stole the worker on gold (not sure good idea or not ... Felt it too risky).
The worker is 3 turns to be ready. I think the priority now is a settler, but I need to grow too to be able to wipe it. So maybe put some turns in a WB (or a warrior) then at pop 2, switch to settler and wipe it at nearest to 69 ?
It seems that the GLH make unanimity, so it would be my next focus. In this case, Sailing -> Masonery straight ? The only thing against that would be the necessity to claim land before, I guess. Firstly the capital would maybe not be able to build a LH directly because it has to build settler, secondly the second city will maybe need the monument to claim a important ressource (copper?).
On this subject, I feel that my second city should claim it. If Mao settle near it, I'm doomed with the incoming war ...
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Fippy
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You should have, like i said in your other game..there are no risks or mistakes in learning games
Great situation for learning this important mechanism, and your benefits would be plenty..
a) free early worker speeds up any game
b) Chinese would not get their gold = much slower teching
c) both Chinese leaders are not very trustworthy, so why not block his development early
d) you could see how silly AIs react when you DoW them unprepared, lose some respect for AIs which will make you a better player cos until you reach deity they will not earn that respect :b
Diplo is important, but annoying them when you gain from that = part of good "diplo"
Turn 13 (back in time)
Done. So we are back in turn 13, a worker still in production in Carthage (I guess I could not have known for sure I would been able to steal the chinese one, so I left it in production. Maybe delay it now ?) and the chinese one coming back to his new homeland. I moved next to Beijing in forest to check chinese forces : two upgraded archers (I guess a human player would have destroy my poor and only warrior, but the AI didn't).
What I know from AI in wartime is that they usually try to spam soldiers. In this situation, I should maybe fortify the one I have in chinese territoy on the forest hill 1N from Beijing, to leave pressure on him, and make another one in Carthage ? Or focus on expand and tech is still safe ?
Done. So we are back in turn 13, a worker still in production in Carthage (I guess I could not have known for sure I would been able to steal the chinese one, so I left it in production. Maybe delay it now ?) and the chinese one coming back to his new homeland. I moved next to Beijing in forest to check chinese forces : two upgraded archers (I guess a human player would have destroy my poor and only warrior, but the AI didn't).
What I know from AI in wartime is that they usually try to spam soldiers. In this situation, I should maybe fortify the one I have in chinese territoy on the forest hill 1N from Beijing, to leave pressure on him, and make another one in Carthage ? Or focus on expand and tech is still safe ?
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Fippy
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Nice
AIs usually have 2 coded city guard units, those will never attack and only defend (or worker steals would be not so popular ~~).
Being in range of his capital makes unit spamming for defense more likely, so you should leave.
Good idea about fortifying your warrior, maybe outside his culture on the forested plains hill towards your land. What you usually would like to do is getting cease fire somehow, then going worker stealing again after he did build a new one (you can break cease fires at any time).
But they will often not make cease fire, cos they have more units.
Catching a scout can change that, or building another unit yourself.
Or getting techs that count towards your power, like bronze working so that could work here soon. If this does not work, you can just block him with the forested plains hill method and build another warri for safety.
If you find copper (and we already know you do), Axes will of course make him sign that cease fire. And also give you very nice units for more stealing Getting an early settler become more important usually in these cases, so you can grab copper or horse.
Overall you do not need to disrupt your other plans, but you can improve them with extra workers.
You could finish that worker by chopping, but i would grow a bit on boats now (and also get another seafood improved, maybe use a chop for that as well).
AIs usually have 2 coded city guard units, those will never attack and only defend (or worker steals would be not so popular ~~).
Being in range of his capital makes unit spamming for defense more likely, so you should leave.
Good idea about fortifying your warrior, maybe outside his culture on the forested plains hill towards your land. What you usually would like to do is getting cease fire somehow, then going worker stealing again after he did build a new one (you can break cease fires at any time).
But they will often not make cease fire, cos they have more units.
Catching a scout can change that, or building another unit yourself.
Or getting techs that count towards your power, like bronze working so that could work here soon. If this does not work, you can just block him with the forested plains hill method and build another warri for safety.
If you find copper (and we already know you do), Axes will of course make him sign that cease fire. And also give you very nice units for more stealing
Getting an early settler become more important usually in these cases, so you can grab copper or horse.Overall you do not need to disrupt your other plans, but you can improve them with extra workers.
You could finish that worker by chopping, but i would grow a bit on boats now (and also get another seafood improved, maybe use a chop for that as well).
Turn 15 (again )
Ok, I just played the 2 turns to be back to the "We know we have copper" situation, and the tech choose.
I just delayed the worker in production at the turn I got the chinese one, cause I feel I actually need more growth than chop or mine (only actions actually possible for my workers). This is especially true if the delay of the pottery in kept in favor of the GLH ... Im building a WB instead, which will be chopped by my new asian friend.
If I count well, my WB will be at 25/30 on the turn of growth and chop, so I will need two more turns (one turn spent on the 3H hill, one making more food on the flooded plain and finishing the WB with the only 1H of the city). I'll have to choose between the 4F3C of the Clam or the 5F1C of the fish ... [Edit : and the Clam has also the advantage to be shared with the 1S of Cow City, which could be nice if I want to wipe there during the GLH build]
Then obviously, it will be the settler, chopped and wiped, that I plan to put 1S of the Copper so it leave free the three planned spots : 1S of Cow, 1SW of Rice and nearest Dye. It also give access to copper without Myst.
So I won't need Myst for now, BUT I will need TW to connect the copper asap, probably before Sailing -> Masonry.
Is all this reasoning correct ?
)Ok, I just played the 2 turns to be back to the "We know we have copper" situation, and the tech choose.
I just delayed the worker in production at the turn I got the chinese one, cause I feel I actually need more growth than chop or mine (only actions actually possible for my workers). This is especially true if the delay of the pottery in kept in favor of the GLH ... Im building a WB instead, which will be chopped by my new asian friend.
If I count well, my WB will be at 25/30 on the turn of growth and chop, so I will need two more turns (one turn spent on the 3H hill, one making more food on the flooded plain and finishing the WB with the only 1H of the city). I'll have to choose between the 4F3C of the Clam or the 5F1C of the fish ... [Edit : and the Clam has also the advantage to be shared with the 1S of Cow City, which could be nice if I want to wipe there during the GLH build]
Then obviously, it will be the settler, chopped and wiped, that I plan to put 1S of the Copper so it leave free the three planned spots : 1S of Cow, 1SW of Rice and nearest Dye. It also give access to copper without Myst.
So I won't need Myst for now, BUT I will need TW to connect the copper asap, probably before Sailing -> Masonry.
Is all this reasoning correct ?
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FlyingSwan
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You need the wheel for pottery,FIN cottaged flood plains are awesome.
Yeah definately the wheel after sailing. It also will allow you to hook up the copper when you go for it. You can probably afford to settle the supercity 1S of the cow first though. wether to start cottaging immediately this I don't know yet. You might wanna claim as much land as you can first.
Allow me to harken back to the most excellent advice from shakabrade:
You already stole one worker; see if you can ceasefire; then immediately steal a second worker when he comes to improve the mine again.
You can grow in mean time on the fish + floodplains and then whip a settler; overflow into a third workboat (second one you will chop now); settle the 1S of cow; then repeat the process to go for the copper site later. Id try and put it 1NW of the copper. It's coastal (you going GLH) and doesnt need a border pop to get the copper hooked up; just a road on the copper tile itself; since sailing will then connect it to the empire. It's not riverside, but you can't always have it all. This will save you worker turns, and you can use the mine to build units whilst the 2 cities to the south take care of the settlers and the workers thanks to the stupid amount of food there. After bureaucracy that city should be very strong with irrigated rice + coppermine; and I'm seeing 6 riverside tiles to work.
Then see if he will ceasefire again after you chop an axe.
Can't say its entirely my idea; but what shakabrade said, and lymond pointing it out again; I can see that curving out very nicely.
Maybe whip a workboat in the second city to go explore, you wanna find more sites for your GLH abuse. Oh and you really want happy recources if you can find em to totally abuse that capital.
Allow me to harken back to the most excellent advice from shakabrade:
You already stole one worker; see if you can ceasefire; then immediately steal a second worker when he comes to improve the mine again.
You can grow in mean time on the fish + floodplains and then whip a settler; overflow into a third workboat (second one you will chop now); settle the 1S of cow; then repeat the process to go for the copper site later. Id try and put it 1NW of the copper. It's coastal (you going GLH) and doesnt need a border pop to get the copper hooked up; just a road on the copper tile itself; since sailing will then connect it to the empire. It's not riverside, but you can't always have it all. This will save you worker turns, and you can use the mine to build units whilst the 2 cities to the south take care of the settlers and the workers thanks to the stupid amount of food there. After bureaucracy that city should be very strong with irrigated rice + coppermine; and I'm seeing 6 riverside tiles to work.
Then see if he will ceasefire again after you chop an axe.
Can't say its entirely my idea; but what shakabrade said, and lymond pointing it out again; I can see that curving out very nicely.
Maybe whip a workboat in the second city to go explore, you wanna find more sites for your GLH abuse. Oh and you really want happy recources if you can find em to totally abuse that capital.
Cease fire is totally inacceptable for Mao
So I see three tech path proposed :
I think the first one will be too soon for the LH to be built in Carthage (still building Settlers, WB), and too late for the copper connexion ...
The second one is the best in my feeling, connecting copper and then LH -> GLH in Carthage, leave some time to grow a little and make cities.
The third one seems risky to me to take the GLH ...
I like the 1NW of copper idea. Plus the bonuses you mentionned, it leaves the 1SW of Rice availible.
So I see three tech path proposed :
- Sailing -> TW -> Masonery -> Pottery
- TW -> Sailing -> Masonery -> Pottery
- TW -> Pottery -> Sailing -> Masonery
I think the first one will be too soon for the LH to be built in Carthage (still building Settlers, WB), and too late for the copper connexion ...
The second one is the best in my feeling, connecting copper and then LH -> GLH in Carthage, leave some time to grow a little and make cities.
The third one seems risky to me to take the GLH ...
I like the 1NW of copper idea. Plus the bonuses you mentionned, it leaves the 1SW of Rice availible.
Turn 31
I decided to go TW -> Pottery after all. Afraid of leaving my worders iddle while the sailing -> masonry path.
I ceased fire with Mao. Not so difficult after all. I finished the delayed worker (delayed units can stay only 10 turns without loosing hammers right, and 50 for buildings ? I remember having read these quantity on this forum), then chop-wiped a settler into a third WB.
Utica is just founded, building a warrior here to guard the border. My two workers will start the copper mine next turn.
I think globally I can stick with the main plan. Sailing -> Masonry. Maybe I have time to build a second settler before the LH -> GLH ?
I decided to go TW -> Pottery after all. Afraid of leaving my worders iddle while the sailing -> masonry path.
I ceased fire with Mao. Not so difficult after all. I finished the delayed worker (delayed units can stay only 10 turns without loosing hammers right, and 50 for buildings ? I remember having read these quantity on this forum), then chop-wiped a settler into a third WB.
Utica is just founded, building a warrior here to guard the border. My two workers will start the copper mine next turn.
I think globally I can stick with the main plan. Sailing -> Masonry. Maybe I have time to build a second settler before the LH -> GLH ?
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Turn 45
Few more turns. I stole another worker from Mao. He accepted cease fire seeing my first axeman out. Sailing is done and I'm wiping a settler into a LH. Now going for GLH. Masonery -> Agri -> AH probably. I wonder if it's best to settle my third city north or east of Carthage. I guess east, so I can take some seafood and make a new wiping factory.
Few more turns. I stole another worker from Mao. He accepted cease fire seeing my first axeman out. Sailing is done and I'm wiping a settler into a LH. Now going for GLH. Masonery -> Agri -> AH probably. I wonder if it's best to settle my third city north or east of Carthage. I guess east, so I can take some seafood and make a new wiping factory.
