I've not played Civ in a while since a patch last year introduced lots of bugs, so i waited until those bugs could be ironed out. Since then there's been even more patches, If you play this game regularly then changes are introduced gradually and it's easier to adjust but I hadn't played in ages so before playing again I read thru all the patch notes because so many things had changed... I was quite perplexed on T227 when Carl Sagan only completed one space project, I didn't see anything in patch notes regarding a nerf, Fair enough it is a bit OP, but why now and no mention in patch notes?... I've noticed now that barbs are spawning in huge numbers and CS are getting conquered within the first 15 turns, science by pop is reduced from 0.7 to 0.5... I want to Love this game again but the patches are spoiling things for me... There's now also a bug in the Tech Tree which fails to show progress and eurekas properly... I just wish the goalposts weren't shifting every 5 minutes so when I play Civ it feels the same, because right now it doesn't...
[Vanilla] Gameplay changes and endless patches
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Art Morte
Prince
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You've gone out exploring too far, judging by the minimap, while leaving areas near your capital undiscovered. That's what can lead to barbarians catching you off guard.
Also, I don't know did you have more military, but you should keep a couple of military units near your capital to kill barb scouts and clear out camps.
You can get unlucky with early barbarians, but it's not terribly difficult to guard against them.
City-states got a little buff to their strength, but some of them still get conquered early, that's true.
Also, I don't know did you have more military, but you should keep a couple of military units near your capital to kill barb scouts and clear out camps.
You can get unlucky with early barbarians, but it's not terribly difficult to guard against them.
City-states got a little buff to their strength, but some of them still get conquered early, that's true.
The warrior was one tile south returning... 2 turns before this pic my slinger was defending just 2 horsemen and they fled but 6 new units appeared... Anyway, Not making excuses, I'm defending badly here I know... Barbs got strengthened in the recent patches and now I need to change strategy to cope with them, That's my gripe really the game has changed a lot so I need to adjust strategies and learn from my mistakes like this... I'm just one of those who think's if it aint broke don't fix it...
I suppose if you weren't playing during the last several patches and updates the game might feel odd to you, but it hardly feels like the "goalposts are shifting" every five minutes to one who has been playing through each update.
According to your screenshot, you are not yet playing the R&F expansion. Probably a good idea for you to avoid it for now. Perhaps it would be best for you to play the debut of the vanilla game for a time and then ease yourself into each patch over the next year before moving onto R&F proper...which will likely have been updated and expanded by then.
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It's been 8 patches for vanilla in 17 months. I wouldn't consider that an extreme amount of patches. Especially considering how buggy and imbalanced it was at release. And aside from not allowing the Factory and Power Plant area effects to stack, the changes haven't been particularly severe.
I recommend a fresh approach. Stop trying to play the way you did at vanilla release and just try to learn the game as if it had just come out.
I recommend a fresh approach. Stop trying to play the way you did at vanilla release and just try to learn the game as if it had just come out.
Leyrann
Deity
To be fair, if you see a barbarian encampment 5 tiles from your capital, cleaning it up should be the very first thing you're doing. And judging from the variety of units there's another camp nearby, maybe in the area you didn't scout? It's been since release that you're best off scouting a few rings around your capital to make sure you don't miss any barbarian encampments, in particular horse encampments.
CS getting conquered is a side effect of improvements to the AI, last patch introduced a number of balance changes aimed at fixing the problem without affecting the AI in any way (city states now build more units and can get their walls up earlier, making them less of a target).
The science per pop got nerfed because you didn't need campuses to stay even in science. Now you'll actually have to invest things into science in order to advance, which is only a good change.
The tech tree bug can be annoying, but it fixes itself as soon as you select anything, so it's not exactly game breaking.
CS getting conquered is a side effect of improvements to the AI, last patch introduced a number of balance changes aimed at fixing the problem without affecting the AI in any way (city states now build more units and can get their walls up earlier, making them less of a target).
The science per pop got nerfed because you didn't need campuses to stay even in science. Now you'll actually have to invest things into science in order to advance, which is only a good change.
The tech tree bug can be annoying, but it fixes itself as soon as you select anything, so it's not exactly game breaking.
Katakanja
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The problem is that some of the things you listed were broke. As Leyrann said, the science per pop nerf was because of how easy it was to tech ahead just with pops and without needing to pay any attention to science-related development. You mention Carl Sagan - I'm pretty sure him being able to boost multiple space projects was an unintended overflow bug to begin with.
IMO the only real balance change they've made (and keep altering regularly) with wide-ranging effects on all aspects of gameplay is the changes to how trade route slots are acquired. I can't think of any other mechanic that's been repeatedly tweaked as much as it has since the game was released.
ZeroSuitSenpai
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If you tend to have early barb problems then:
1. Don't over-extend your units. Walk your initial warrior back to your capital after exploring for a bit.
2. Start by building 3 slingers or 2 slingers 1 warrior.
3. Delay your builder and make other useful things (e.g. settler, monument) until you're safer. If you have no tiles to pillage, Barbs have nothing to do.
4. Stand fortified on high defense tiles (e.g. forest hills) with warriors. Let barbs kill themselves on your warrior rather than pursuing them and over-extending.
1. Don't over-extend your units. Walk your initial warrior back to your capital after exploring for a bit.
2. Start by building 3 slingers or 2 slingers 1 warrior.
3. Delay your builder and make other useful things (e.g. settler, monument) until you're safer. If you have no tiles to pillage, Barbs have nothing to do.
4. Stand fortified on high defense tiles (e.g. forest hills) with warriors. Let barbs kill themselves on your warrior rather than pursuing them and over-extending.
Eliminator_Sr
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I'm a little more frustrated with the consistency of patches. They got rid of overflow for Sagan (a good change - was an exploit IMO) but then completely ignored it with Magnus (perhaps intentional) but it feels game breaking right now and far more severe than Sagan. I haven't really noticed any issue with barbarians - did they change anything there?
Leyrann
Deity
Yeah. They reduced maximum range for horse resource to turn it into a horse camp from 5 to 3 with R&F.
I think it was intentional. Why give him 3000 production? 1200 production would be completely unusable if they did not intend for it to overflow. Probably never thought it through properly when being boosted by 100%. He was completely OP though so I understand the nerf, I just questioned why it took so long to do it ?
I'll have a go at answering my own question. I don't have R&F yet but I believe you can buy spaceports with gold ? expend builder charges to build space-parts ? and also assign governors to speed production ? So obviously without playing it, sounds to me that Science Victories can probably be completed quicker in R&F than in Vanilla. I think the intention of the Devs was that the SV burden would be shared between 2 or 3 cities and the Sagan exploit turned SVs into a one turn effort which was obviously not the intent. SVs will now have to transpire the way the Devs envisaged and hopefully not take an eternity thanks to improvements regarding the speed of completing the various stages. It is a good change...
Katakanja
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3000 production is exactly the amount you need for one mars project . I don't know what you mean by 1200 production being useless?
The way the science victory projects break down are as follows -
1500 for the satellite
2500 for the moon landing
3000 for each of the three mars projects
2500 for the moon landing
3000 for each of the three mars projects
lolz, No I just aborted then and there... tbh i've watched a number of playthroughs lately and the emphasis was on getting out as many settlers as possible, so yes my military was lacking somewhat but I posted the image to show the newly strengthened barbs ! I will have to follow the advice offered and bring the warrior home early and get more military units
I was a bit unlucky on that start, there was obviously one barb camp north but I had unseen ones east and west Not in my game ?
900 Satellite
1500 Moon Landing
1800 Mars Components
I play standard speed 500 turns... Are you on Epic or Marathon ? Maybe production values are different on those game speeds ?
Katakanja
Emperor
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Nah, I play standard speed too. Actually, it's possible they might have changed the values for R&F? I admit I haven't bothered looking closely at the numbers recently since I'd memorised the ones I posted above. I'll check it out the next time I play.
Trav'ling Canuck
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lolz, No I just aborted then and there... tbh i've watched a number of playthroughs lately and the emphasis was on getting out as many settlers as possible, so yes my military was lacking somewhat but I posted the image to show the newly strengthened barbs ! I will have to follow the advice offered and bring the warrior home early and get more military units
You're doing the right thing, getting a settler out early, and then more settlers as soon as you can. The more cities you get the earlier, the easier the rest of the game goes. I see you also have a builder, too, to get the Craftsmen boost and improve yields in your capital, which will help you get the first settler out. The earlier you can get the Builder, the more likely it is he'll get 3 tiles improved, even with barbarians around. He disappears after his third charge is used, so you can be aggressive once he's done to only one charge, and improve a tile right in front of a barbarian, if needed. You need to coordinate with having the right techs for the improvements, of course. A quarry, a mine, and a farm requires only one tech and gives three tech boosts if you have the right nearby resources.
You'll see conflicting advice on more military units. I personally try to rely on just my starting Warrior unless he's absolutely overwhelmed, in which case I switch over to building a Scout or a Slinger to help out. Tight circular exploring by the Warrior and bee line the camp of any barbarian Scout who appears usually does the trick. It's not unusual for my starting Warrior to clear out 2 or 3 barbarian camps on his own, then once a second city is up and a Scout is off exploring, I build a Slinger to kill off a barbarian somewhere for the Archery boost.
Not every game, of course. If I meet Shaka or Chandragupta or Cyrus or (I'm forgetting some leaders here) early, I get at least a Slinger built early for the inevitable "surprise" attack, possibly a second Warrior, or if I plan on attacking them then 3 or 4 Slingers and at least a second Warrior (ideally after the 50% production bonus card is available).
Thanks for the encouraging advice ! I'll keep perusing this style of play but get the warrior home a bit earlier I think, I'm starting games over and over at the moment because I'm trying to improve on my starts as obviously the first turns are so crucial ! So I'm doing a bit of trial and error at the moment
... mostly error lolz...acluewithout
Deity
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I think your view of patches changes depending on whether you see the patches as improving the game or not.
Last year I was really excited about each patch, because each one seemed to really improve the game. And then I started getting really excited about R&F.
But since then, I’ve had much more mixed feelings about the last array of changes...
I don’t think Firaxis are doing anything wrong. They seem like they’re working hard and are genuinely passionate about the game. It just looks like getting the game right requires a lot of time and tweaking. But I do find all the patches and iterative development a bit of a roller coaster!
Last year I was really excited about each patch, because each one seemed to really improve the game. And then I started getting really excited about R&F.
But since then, I’ve had much more mixed feelings about the last array of changes...
I don’t think Firaxis are doing anything wrong. They seem like they’re working hard and are genuinely passionate about the game. It just looks like getting the game right requires a lot of time and tweaking. But I do find all the patches and iterative development a bit of a roller coaster!
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