Gaza Beach Shelling

[Civrules]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/09/mideast/index.html

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- An Israeli navy gunboat fired shells onto a northern Gaza beach Friday, killing at least seven people and prompting the military wing of Hamas to call off a 16-month-old cease-fire with Israel.

The Israel Defense Forces said it was firing on rocket-launching areas in Gaza after a militant attack earlier in the day. The target areas were believed to be uninhabited, a representative said.

A spokesman for Hamas, Sami Abu Zuhri, said it was "impossible to remain silent" after viewing "terrifying pictures of the women and children" on the beach.

"These demonstrations emphasize the necessity of the renewal of the struggle," he said. (Watch the aftermath on the beach -- :46)

A mass demonstration erupted in Gaza City, and protesters Friday evening were demanding revenge for recent attacks that include the beach shelling and Thursday's killing of a Hamas official in an Israeli missile strike.

Palestinians were picnicking when the Israeli shells slammed into the beach, Palestinian medical sources said. About 20 people were injured in the attack, Palestinian security sources said.

An apology was initially issued to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz in which the IDF said it "regretted the strike on innocents," but Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, the IDF's chief of general staff, later said the military is investigating the possibility that it was not naval artillery that struck the beach.

The IDF halted firing pending an investigation.

Haaretz quoted Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas as condemning the killings as a "bloody massacre."

Video footage from the beach showed ambulance workers carrying away injured people on stretchers and a young girl screaming for a parent.

Hamas has stuck to the cease-fire it announced in February 2005, but other groups did not sign on and have continued attacks against Israel. Earlier this year, Hamas won the Palestinian elections.

Hamas and its military wing Izzedine al Qassam has admitted responsibility for terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians as well as attacks against the Israeli military. Israel and the U.S. State Department consider Hamas a terrorist organization, though it also operates an extensive social services network in the territories.

Five militants also died earlier Friday in two Israeli strikes in Gaza, Palestinian sources said.

The beach is in the Palestinian village of Beit Lahya. The IDF said militants launched a Qassam rocket from the village that landed in Israel but caused no damage or casualties.

The militants got into a car, which the Israeli air force then attacked, according to the IDF. A large explosion followed, killing three people. The IDF said the blast was likely due to explosives in the car.

The three dead were members of the Popular Resistance Committees, a coalition of militant groups, Palestinian security sources said. Palestinian sources said the dead included two brothers and a cousin.

After the attack in Beit Lahya, a car was hit at Jabalya refuge camp, killing two militants, Palestinian sources said.

Last summer, under then-Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Israel withdrew from Gaza, and Israeli forces forcibly removed about 8,000 settlers from Gaza and four small areas of the West Bank.

So, how can we expect there to be peace with this kind of stuff? Obviously both sides are showing no sign of a civilized solution to this! One day someone blows himself up and kills 10 Israelis. The next day Israel shells civilians. It's happened all too often! And if the areas were believed to be "uninhabited," what the hell was the target?

Also watch the video. It's kind of hard just to watch the girl's disbelief of her father's death.

Seriously - is there hope?

 

[Kozmos]

You cant believe the area is uninhabited and then somehow kill 7 people. They fired on purpose.

 

[Leha]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/09/mideast/index.html



So, how can we expect there to be peace with this kind of stuff? Obviously both sides are showing no sign of a civilized solution to this! One day someone blows himself up and kills 10 Israelis. The next day Israel shells civilians. It's happened all too often! And if the areas were believed to be "uninhabited," what the hell was the target?

Also watch the video. It's kind of hard just to watch the girl's disbelief of her father's death.

Seriously - is there hope?

Several things.

1. There is still investigation. Last time terrorist car exploded killing dosen of peacefull palestinians, Israel was accused first.

2. IDF doesn't target civilians. Accidents like this happen though. And it is very sad, of course.

3. This article, sadly, don't mention number of missiles fired from Gasa into Israel territory every day. As long as Hamas government do nothing to stop them, our artillery shells uninhabited territories, which has no effect of course. Terrorists launch Qasams from settled areas. IDF doesn't fire artillery shells into settled areas.

 

[Xenocrates]

A cynic might say that this is an attempt to break the cease fire and restart the conflict. Then again it could have been an accident. Who knows.

 

[Civrules]

2. IDF doesn't target civilians. Accidents like this happen though. And it is very sad, of course.

Well, I'm not saying they target civilians on purpose. If I truly believed it I think my post would have been a bit more bitter and one-sided.

I'm looking at the overall big picture of the entire situation. Forget investigations, I'm talking about the fact that it's disgusting how - of all the people who should be held responsible for the overall tension over there - civilians are the first ones to be affected (either Israeli or Palestinian).

Even if it’s an accident, it really doesn’t change the aftermath.

 

[Leha]

Well, I'm not saying they target civilians on purpose. If I truly believed it I think my post would have been a bit more bitter.

I'm looking at the overall big picture of the entire situation. Forget investigations, I'm talking about the fact that it's disgusting how - of all the people who should be held responsible for the overall tension over there - civilians are the first ones to be affected (either Israeli or Palestinian).

Even if it’s an accident, it really doesn’t change the aftermath.

I'm not monster. Pictures of hurt children are almost impossible to look at.
I'm for peace with palestinians. I agree Israel should do everything to end this nightmare. I'm all for peacefull negotiations. Majority of israelis are for peacefull solution.

BUT.....I just don't see how constant bombings of our cities can be stopped without military response to terrorists. I can't imagine any country not responding to bombardment of its territory.

 

[7ronin]

You cant believe the area is uninhabited and then somehow kill 7 people. They fired on purpose.

Who's to say that anyone was killed. How do we know that Hamas didn't find a few bodies and then say that they were killed in the attack. They've used this tactic in the past.

 

[amadeus]

I certainly wouldn't put it past Hamas to either fake the figure or even execute their own citizens and claim it was a result of an Israeli attack.

 

[malclave]

If the CNN report is accurate in its facts, it is at least plausible that it was a strike from the IDF, so at least for now I'm going with that theory instead of one suggesting Hamas performed the strike.

The quote from CNN makes it sound like the IDF may be backing off from the apology, but the quote provided doesn't necessarily support that.

I'm not willing at this point to concede the suggestion that the IDF intentionally targetted civilians, if for no other reason than I don't believe it would make sense politically at this point. I am interested in seeing how the story develops.

 

[Pyrite]

"2. IDF doesn't target civilians. Accidents like this happen though. And it is very sad, of course."

National policy is sadly accidental.

 

[blackheart]

1. There is still investigation. Last time terrorist car exploded killing dosen of peacefull palestinians, Israel was accused first.

The IDF admitted fault this time first.

2. IDF doesn't target civilians. Accidents like this happen though. And it is very sad, of course.

I'm not suggesting the IDF does, but no military who has specifically targetted civilians and then tried to cover it up ever admitted that they do target civilians.

3. This article, sadly, don't mention number of missiles fired from Gasa into Israel territory every day. As long as Hamas government do nothing to stop them, our artillery shells uninhabited territories, which has no effect of course. Terrorists launch Qasams from settled areas. IDF doesn't fire artillery shells into settled areas.

This is really contradictory. Why bother shelling uninhabited areas if it doesn't affect anything?

 

[Leha]

The IDF admitted fault this time first.

But then they said that ships didn't fire in that direction, and it could well be explosion of the shell, which didn't explode earlier.

I'm not suggesting the IDF does, but no military who has specifically targetted civilians and then tried to cover it up ever admitted that they do target civilians.?

Simple logic, why just not shell several houses in the village itself? Why shell group of people on the sea shore?

This is really contradictory. Why bother shelling uninhabited areas if it doesn't affect anything?

Because IDF don't shell citisens. The fact that terrorists use civilians as shield doesn't change the fact that IDF doesn't target civilians. But SOME reply for Qasam attacks is required. So all that is left - bombing empty spaces as "presumable launch area"

 

[Winterfell]

That is very sad. It was very shocking for me to read these news yesterday.
Israel's policy is to avoid harming civilians at all cost. Sometimes there is an accident and there is nothing we can do to prevent it.
They fire missles at our homes and factories? Whar are we supposed to do? stay quiet? wait for them to kill us and hope they stop? That is not why we have our army. Its purpose is to defend and that is what it does.
Now, the Hamas, the party in power, renounced its violence against israel. If that is not a declaration of war I dont know what is.

 

[nivi]

1. Mistakes happen, an IDF missile hit an israeli kibbutz just 2 days ago, but you won't hear about that, will you?

2. Palistinian are not cooprating in the invistagation, israel doesn't have the shell, nor the exact location of this, nor do we know the exact type of injuries, you gotta think, what are they trying to hide?

 

[Leonel]

Huh I wonder why they were shelling the beach. An exercise maybe or perhaps they thought they would fire off a few shells for fun and not meaning to hurt anyone?

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Huh I wonder why they were shelling the beach. An exercise maybe or perhaps they thought they would fire off a few shells for fun and not meaning to hurt anyone?

Yes, good question. What's the point in shelling at all if you aren't trying to kill anyone or destroy a specific target?

 

[Sh3kel]

I certainly wouldn't put it past Hamas to either fake the figure or even execute their own citizens and claim it was a result of an Israeli attack.

I would. There's no honor in that, which means they don't get the "claim to fame" that comes from being a martyr or killing Israelis. They're a bunch of bloodthirsty maniacs, but there is SOME sort of logic to their actions.

 

[Sh3kel]

The IDF admitted fault this time first.

I'm not suggesting the IDF does, but no military who has specifically targetted civilians and then tried to cover it up ever admitted that they do target civilians.

This is really contradictory. Why bother shelling uninhabited areas if it doesn't affect anything?

The idea is to make life for the civilians impossible and frusttrating as possible so that one of two things happen:
A) They pick up their arms and drive away the Qassam fireteams out of range from Israel;
B) They leave, making targeting the fireteams via artillery a less-messy bussiness since we can now shell the civilian free area to our heart's contents.

So far, I think professionally this is the wrong course of action. Neither of these means work as intended, yet the General Staff seems to think the proper course of action is to shell opens fields day and night and not kill anyone or anything in the hopes of scaring stuff away (like flailing your arms around and screaming like a ****** at a mountain cat - it will usually be startled over your size and cries and will flee instead of jumping at you and eating your delicious brains).
The ideal situation would be to insert sniper teams at suspected shelling zones in 24-72 hour ambushes, just like was standadrd operational procedure when we were in Lebanon. It sucked to be in those ambushes, but it got the job done and done good.

If it were up to me? I'd be shelling the fireteams even WHILE at civilian zones. After 10-15 fireteams were lost to Artillery or Helicopter strikes, even inside civilian zones, the fireteams would be forced to locate a different launch pad. But that's just the way I see it from my desk at the Air Force.

 

[C~G]

Madness! madness!

 

[bathsheba666]

Israel's policy is to avoid harming civilians at all cost.

'at all cost'. I think you must have forgotten this impressive flourish by the time you moved on to the rest of the words below. Let's just acknowledge that as unsustainable.

Sometimes there is an accident

You mean a commander accidentally yelled 'Fire'

and there is nothing we can do to prevent it.

You mean your commanders are totally out of control?
Then dismiss your commanders. There's something.

They fire missles at our homes and factories? Whar are we supposed to do? stay quiet? wait for them to kill us and hope they stop?

Ah, there we go, here is the 'at all cost' biting the dust

That is not why we have our army. Its purpose is to defend and that is what it does.

It's purpose is now to defend, now it has got the annexation of Palestinian territory bit out of the way. Oh, and that's why it's going to need to keep on defending.

Whar are we supposed to do?

Give the Palestinians back the territory you have stolen.

Or is that too great an 'at all cost' for you?