GEM: Technologies

[Thalassicus]

Your oligarchy example does this:

1) GEM changes Oligarchy flavors in the database.
2) Your mod changes Oligarchy flavors in the database.
3) GEM displays flavors from the database (yours from #2).

Tile improvements don't have flavors in the unmodded game. I believe this means the unmodded AI does not know where improvements are on the tech tree. Your improvement example does this:

1) GEM creates flavors for base-game improvements (technically for builds, which include things like forest-chopping).
2) GEM uses those improvement flavors to determine tech flavors.
3) Your mod creates a new improvement and gives it flavors.
4) GEM displays your mod's new flavors, but the tech AI already ran, so it has no effect.

 

[skodkim]

Thanks for the repply.

I'm still having some issues (questions here) though.

1: Does it matter if the tile improvements have no flavors and if so can I set them manually somehow?

2: I've added new buildings and wonders in a modmod and I can't get GEM to assign flavors automatically. I've tried both making GEM refer to the modmod (modmod runs after GEM) and vice versa (GEM runs after modmod). Once again what do I do - set flavors manually?

\Skodkim

EDIT: Found out that flavors for buildings/wonders can still be manually set so I guess that's the way to do it for them? Wouldn't this however undermine the flavor system of e.g. techs that have new wonders assigned?

 

[Thalassicus]

Yes, I set flavors manually for buildings and improvements. The AI I created automatically assigns flavors to techs. I'd need to create a separate AI to do that for buildings and improvements. It's is a low priority, because flavors rarely change for buildings and wonders, so an automated system would not save much time. Tech flavors are more complex and change frequently, so an automated AI helped me more there.

I think these steps should work:

1. Set flavors for your buildings and builds. You can see the pattern I used on the Building_Priorities tab of the Civ5Modding.xls spreadsheet in the mod folder.

2. Copy Gem/AI/GEAI_zTechs.sql into your modmod, and add an UpdateDatabase action for it. This is the tech AI.

3. Set your modmod to run after GEM.

 

[skodkim]

Hi Thal

Sorry for keeping taking up your time with this discussion but I just dont see where in your mod you set flavors for imrovements.

I've been going searching the files for references to the Improvement_Flavors table and the only place I can find anything is in GEM\Leaders\GEL_Start.sql. If I try adding new rows containing flavors for my new improvements in my modmod I still get blank flavor values shown on these improvements in the tech tree.

The steps above worked - tech flavors are now updated according to new wonders added to the game

\Skodkim

 

[Thalassicus]

The table is Build_Flavors. Worker "builds" include both improvements and actions like forest-chopping which do not create an improvement. The table is in:

GEM/AI/GEAI_Builds.xml

I changed the filename to GEAI_WorkerBuilds for the next version to somewhat clarify the name.

 

[skodkim]

Thal, given that I'm the one asking for help fun you here you're extremely polite and I'm very grateful!

It works now - guess i was just confused and thought it was an improvement related flavour and not build related. It works in my modmod now.

Anyway have a very happy new year!

/skodkim

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

I think it is too easy to beeline for Plastics (Science-lab).

There are only three techs (Electricity, Radio and Plastics itsself) needed from Public schools (Scientific Research) to Science labs. (Easy to gap with the knowledge-finisher.)
Refrigerator or even Mass Production should be a pre for Plastics.

 

[Thalassicus]

Ideally, we should win a science victory about the same time as we did with the old tech tree. Science victories now require more of the military path than ever before (everything up to the modern era!), so I made Research Labs more available to compensate, and removed a few techs.

Notice those four techs don't unlock much. They give us Public Schools, Research Labs, and Broadcast Towers. There's two wonders and a couple espionage buildings, but not much else. They are very sparse compared to the industrial side of the tree. We skip a lot if we beeline the science path.

If we think the science path is too strong, I see a few options we could try:

• Slightly reduce the power of research labs.
• Improve Factories.
• Move Hydro Plants to Mass Production.
• Link Plastics to Refrigerator.
• Merge Plastics into Electronics.
• Swap Plastics with Electronics.

I'd prefer A, B, or C. The first three leave the option of straight to Plastics available, and just makes it somewhat less powerful. I like to increase/decrease power instead of removing options, when possible. Adding tech links to solve balance issues can lead us to the tangled tech tree of the unmodded game.

 

[Hawawaa]

Random thoughts- Certain techs say Engineering helps workers work jungle tiles faster? They do seem to take a long time to get up (1-3 turns off would be nice).

 

[Thalassicus]

I don't think techs can change that, but I could speed up the basic worker builds themselves. The unmodded game makes jungle take about twice as long to improve as forest. I could make jungles equal to forest.

 

[Hawawaa]

That would be awesome.

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Ideally, we should win a science victory about the same time as we did with the old tech tree. Science victories now require more of the military path than ever before (everything up to the modern era!), so I made Research Labs more available to compensate, and removed a few techs.

Notice those four techs don't unlock much. They give us Public Schools, Research Labs, and Broadcast Towers. There's two wonders and a couple espionage buildings, but not much else. They are very sparse compared to the industrial side of the tree. We skip a lot if we beeline the science path.

If we think the science path is too strong, I see a few options we could try:

• Slightly reduce the power of research labs.
• Improve Factories.
• Move Hydro Plants to Mass Production.
• Link Plastics to Refrigerator.
• Merge Plastics into Electronics.
• Swap Plastics with Electronics.

I'd prefer A, B, or C. The first three leave the option of straight to Plastics available, and just makes it somewhat less powerful. I like to increase/decrease power instead of removing options, when possible. Adding tech links to solve balance issues can lead us to the tangled tech tree of the unmodded game.

I understand. Option A seems a good solution to me. +50% without the need for any extra policies or the like is very much even for a late game building.

B: Improving the %-bonus from 15 to 20 would be worth a try. Don't think that factories are too weak, but they could be slightly better for their costs and ressource requirement.

C: Hydro Plants as a powerful production building is at least a bit unusual so far in the upper half of the tree.

 

[Thalassicus]

I included a change to research labs in tonight's update dropping them from 50% to 40%.