General A New Dawn discussion

[Hudos]

So it's been a while since I've played this mod, but I came back and decided to start a game. While looking through all the leaders and checking out the traits, I couldn't help but think how imbalanced they were. I picked Augustus Caesar because it seemed like the best trait mixture by far, and after several games now, I'm pretty convinced that I was right.

+100% Great General Emergence from Imperialistic makes it simply irresistible to go to war in the early game. I always rush military techs, spam units and then invade my neighbour. Whether I'm victorious or not is irrelevant, because I'm farming generals like crazy and using them for the +2 experience points in my main production city. Sometimes I just sit on a hill outside a city and occasionally attack the units inside; the AI never seems to deal with the situation very well.

On top of that, the +50% wonder production from Industrious makes it easy to get things like Art of War, Terracotta Army, Colosseum, Greek Fire, etc. If you rush the techs needed for wonders that give militaristic benefits, it doesn't even matter that you fall behind elsewhere because your units are so strong that you can crush everybody.

This is how all of my games are going, and I'm finding it so difficult to just say no. I'm actually thinking of doing a bit of editing to make the other traits more appealing (or possibly nerf the crap out of these two), but I'm making a post here to find out if anyone feels the same way, or if there actually ARE strategies just as good as this and it's all in my head.

 

[Samson]

I think I would agree with your general point that there seems to be quite a difference between the leaders. However, there was a thread some time ago where people posted their favourite leaders and everyone had a different one. I find it hard to beat the hittite leader, Suppi someone. He gets 10% food (and production) with iron, and food is power in all civs.

 

[Vokarya]

I think I would agree with your general point that there seems to be quite a difference between the leaders. However, there was a thread some time ago where people posted their favourite leaders and everyone had a different one. I find it hard to beat the hittite leader, Suppi someone. He gets 10% food (and production) with iron, and food is power in all civs.

That's a UB bonus, not a leader bonus. If we need to nerf that, we can do so without messing with other leaders.

I think this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say Imperialistic is too strong. Usually Expansive/Financial/Organized get talked about and Imperialistic is at the bottom of the list.

 

[Hudos]

That's a UB bonus, not a leader bonus. If we need to nerf that, we can do so without messing with other leaders.

I think this is the first time I've ever heard anyone say Imperialistic is too strong. Usually Expansive/Financial/Organized get talked about and Imperialistic is at the bottom of the list.

That's bizarre to me. Has nobody else tried the farming generals strat, or are they just running into problems that I'm not?

Rush animal husbandry -> settle on horses -> attack neighbour with horse units -> snowball from using great generals on highest production city. All while trying to build wonders that either make it easier to get great generals or add free XP/promotions for units. Founding Hellenism also helps, for the free monastery promotion.

Maybe on higher difficulty, it's harder to get away with this? I only play on prince.

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

I don't know, I'm playing an immortal game, grid formation of cities to use every tile. Nudge, Nudge, wink wink SAY NO MORE!!!!!! (just read it) This is a finished game, high to low, only on 3rd Civ did I play the Grid game, and reported from 2nd Civ.

I play random leader, and rolled Washington, who's Charismatic/expansive.

I set up Military cities so they produce a level 4 unit out of barracks, so 2 or 3 GG's, and bonus buildings.

I've set up 4 Land Military cities, and 4 Naval Military cities now, for 8 total out of 72 (Gigantic map, Eternity speed)

I'm only now catching up, and keeping up on 0% research with the AI's. Have surpassed 50%, others are trade block.

Farming GG's, a strategy, yes, but you need other strings to your bow. I guess it all depends on how you want to win/play. Play for conquest, great strategy. Play for Cultural win, NO. Each to own.

 

[Hudos]

Yeah I play with only dom and conquest active, because I'm pretty sure I have an addiction to war. Interesting rule set you've got for that game. I'll be sure to give it a read when I have time.

Random question: Does anyone know what file I need to tamper with to make the AIs all despise each other? I think a game like that might be amusing.

Edit: Nevermind, found it. Changed some values in civleaderheadinfos so that AIs get -30 attitude with those that don't share the same religion. xD

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

How much do you find changing those attitudes affect the game? Do they war more often?

 

[Export_Import]

Guys, is there any way to disable random events in-game? I've just stucked one turn before the dark ages event and it's really annoying to lose foods and wait hundred turns until it ends.

I've already tried to replay from 20 turns back, tried to use console command (enabled no_events game option), tried to delete an events folder.

Thanks.

 

[Hudos]

How much do you find changing those attitudes affect the game? Do they war more often?

Combined with limited religions (so most advanced civs get their own religion) it created a world where every powerful army was being used to attack a neighbour, except for one. There was one civ who had their own religion, hated everybody and were hated in return, but somehow avoided both declaring and being declared on. I think they just got lucky (until I wiped them out to win the game.)

This was aggressive AI, though, and they fell majorly behind in tech because of all the units they were building. Going to try without aggressive AI, but if I'm not pleased with the amount of bloodshed, I might just fiddle with the difficulty so they can keep up on aggressive.

This also opens up a few cheese strats, which you kinda have to limit yourself on if you want a good game. Like not using a religion and then becoming best friends with everyone, letting you simply watch as they all kill each other. That's no fun.

 

[Vokarya]

Guys, is there any way to disable random events in-game? I've just stucked one turn before the dark ages event and it's really annoying to lose foods and wait hundred turns until it ends.

I've already tried to replay from 20 turns back, tried to use console command (enabled no_events game option), tried to delete an events folder.

Thanks.

You could try editing the Civ4EventInfos.xml file to remove the Python callback. That should stop the dark age part of the event from going off. Search for <PythonCallback>applyMeteorStrike1</PythonCallback> and replace it with <PythonCallback/>.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

...

I might just try this myself. Might give the AI a bit more backbone.

Also, I don't know if this counts as an exploit, but I feel that the Extra Space promotion should be changed or removed for the Caravel.
Whilst Caravels can only carry 1 special unit without the promotion, they can carry 2 units if promoted twice in extra space - which nullifies the exploratory period and allows the players to settle colonies way earlier. It obsoletes the Carrack too, as the main selling point on the Portuguese ship is that it can carry all types of units earlier than regular Carracks.
Is there a way on changing this in the code?

 

[Vokarya]

I might just try this myself. Might give the AI a bit more backbone.

Also, I don't know if this counts as an exploit, but I feel that the Extra Space promotion should be changed or removed for the Caravel.
Whilst Caravels can only carry 1 special unit without the promotion, they can carry 2 units if promoted twice in extra space - which nullifies the exploratory period and allows the players to settle colonies way earlier. It obsoletes the Carrack too, as the main selling point on the Portuguese ship is that it can carry all types of units earlier than regular Carracks.
Is there a way on changing this in the code?

Not easily. Promotion access is assigned by unit combat type. You'd have to create a new combat type just for Caravels.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

That's unfortunate.
It seems that the AI don't use it anyway. Really it looks like the AI can't really use any of the new implementations to the game properly - like Surround and Destroy, Great Commanders, Forts etc.

 

[<Nexus>]

This problem could be solved easily by removing the extra cargo promotions. We don't really need them after all. The AI doesn't use it, and the human player can build just one more Transport ship instead.
I think AND2 has way too many promotions and some of them are just not useful enough, for example the "flat land warrior" promo.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

I'll have a scan through the XMLs, and try find which one gives promotions...

 

[<Nexus>]

I'll have a scan through the XMLs, and try find which one gives promotions...

Assets\XML\Units\Civ4PromotionInfos.xml

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

Thanks.

 

[Vokarya]

Proposal: I was playing some test games on Noble difficulty/Large worldsize/Epic speed and I found the Ancient and Classical Eras were a slog to play through. I think we should speed up building production in those first two eras to allow more things to happen. I think we should just set <iConstructPercent> for those two eras to 80 (from 100) and see what happens. I want the early eras to be enjoyable, not just pressing Enter over and over again to end turns.

 

[<Nexus>]

I'm okay with that change. Go for it.

But I think that the Ancient era really needs more micro-management (and the Classical too).
For a long time I'm thinking of creating an event based mechanic for gathering.
How I imagine it:

1. Your Worker builds a dummy improvement: Gathering, that has a high (say 5) ,, value to trick the AI to build it.
2. An event pops up offering some choices based on terrain, features and resources. Bonus to choose could be:
   • on Grass, Forest, Jungle, Flood Plain or food related resource on plot
     
   • on Plains, Forest, Hill, Peak or production related resource on plot
     
   • on gold related resource on plot
     
   • or on any plot
     
   • a chance for a free building in some situations (like gathering on a Forest plot allows a free Carpenter but you have only 20% chance to truly get it)
   • reveal the resource on the plot if not yet revealed by a tech (not any resource, only those that are revealed in the Ancient and Classical eras)
   • etc
3. Than the Improvement is removed from the plot and you can start again.
4. Gathering improvement slowly obsoletes by tech giving it a -1 ,, value and with the last tech, where it reaches 0 the events obsolete too. The AI won't have any reason to build it and if the human player builds it for any reason the improvement is still just removed.

Maybe events and a dummy improvement are not the best solutions but could be good for a start.

A better solution could be this:
The game checks every worked but non-improved tiles (so no trouble with Worker AI) and offers bonuses to choose from as described in #2 (surely this requires python or dll work, which is faaaar beyond my reach). Gathering is available with some starter civics or could obsolete with a tech.

What do you think?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Proposal: I was playing some test games on Noble difficulty/Large worldsize/Epic speed and I found the Ancient and Classical Eras were a slog to play through. I think we should speed up building production in those first two eras to allow more things to happen. I think we should just set <iConstructPercent> for those two eras to 80 (from 100) and see what happens. I want the early eras to be enjoyable, not just pressing Enter over and over again to end turns.

I'm ok with the proposal, just be cautious because changing construct/build/train rate also has some impact on research and I would definitely avoid changing this. Also, I didn't remember you can change iConstruct specifically for an Era.