General A New Dawn discussion

[<Nexus>]

From the CIV4EraInfos.xml:

<Type>ERA_ANCIENT</Type>
...
<iGrowthPercent>85</iGrowthPercent>
<iTrainPercent>55</iTrainPercent>
<iConstructPercent>100</iConstructPercent>
<iCreatePercent>100</iCreatePercent>
<iResearchPercent>65</iResearchPercent>

I wonder why construct/build/train rate has impact on research when there is a different iResearchPercent tag for that? Is that intended or a bug?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Too long I've been away, so I first need to check. But that's not what I meant: I mean that if you build, for example, buildings faster, more research is being produced, hence throwing off a bit the correct research scale. This is why I think it's good to be cautious. IIRC anyway there's a line in the revolution code which explicitly uses the sum of train/build/construct but I don't remember what's used for.
Finally, I might still need to check but I think the xml you quoted above influences those tags if you START in that era, not if it's the era you are currently in.

 

[Vokarya]

Too long I've been away, so I first need to check. But that's not what I meant: I mean that if you build, for example, buildings faster, more research is being produced, hence throwing off a bit the correct research scale. This is why I think it's good to be cautious. IIRC anyway there's a line in the revolution code which explicitly uses the sum of train/build/construct but I don't remember what's used for.
Finally, I might still need to check but I think the xml you quoted above influences those tags if you START in that era, not if it's the era you are currently in.

I think you're right. Check CvPlayer.cpp and it has in the getProductionNeeded function:

iProductionNeeded *= GC.getEraInfo(GC.getGameINLINE().getStartEra()).getConstructPercent();

I wonder why the code uses getStartEra rather than getCurrentEra?

 

[Vokarya]

The other thing that I think I want to test is a basic Revolutions stability question.

Is it possible, in the Ancient Era, to have a 3-city empire that is stable without having a religion? Assuming Noble difficulty and 0 human offset. The reason I ask is because I was getting very frustrated with the combination of increasing revolution too much while at the same time the AI was getting so many bonuses that beelining one of the ancient religions seemed impossible. I've been having fair results with heading directly to Athletics although it does mean

The new variable in this equation is moving Roads to The Wheel. The revolution factor for distance scales with the lowest <iMovementCost> of the routes you can build. With Roads available at The Wheel rather than waiting all the way until Monarchy, that means slightly lower revolution issues in the Ancient and early Classical Eras. This is what I think is a fair base, and then Revolutions scale up from there with more cities or higher difficulty or human offset.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I think you're right. Check CvPlayer.cpp and it has in the getProductionNeeded function:

iProductionNeeded *= GC.getEraInfo(GC.getGameINLINE().getStartEra()).getConstructPercent();

I wonder why the code uses getStartEra rather than getCurrentEra?

I suppose that's the original code, which is meant for players who start in advanced eras, something we rarely do in RAND. If you play an advanced era game, you should probably be able to build/train/research faster.
If I'm not mistaken, we have a tag for each era only for research. Not a problem anyway adding one for construction too. Actually, it could be done for train/build/etc too, which might be useful for fine tuning. But if you don't need anything else specifically, I would just add the tag ConstructPercentEraSpecific for the moment. Then I will upload it together with the omnifactory change.

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

Just a couple of things to say,
How successful is it building an empire peacefully? Or at least as peacefully as possible. I find that playing games through constant warring is a bit shallow. I'm attempting to build a large empire through diplomacy and finance rather than through brute force in a game at the moment.
Also what does it take for an AI to hand over control of a city? It seems they never want to let them go.
Finally is it correct for this Civ to be able to settle a city so far from its capitol so early in the game, and not have stability issues? I think it was settled a dozen turns ago. Its stability has remained at Safe.

 

[Vokarya]

Too long I've been away, so I first need to check. But that's not what I meant: I mean that if you build, for example, buildings faster, more research is being produced, hence throwing off a bit the correct research scale. This is why I think it's good to be cautious. IIRC anyway there's a line in the revolution code which explicitly uses the sum of train/build/construct but I don't remember what's used for.
Finally, I might still need to check but I think the xml you quoted above influences those tags if you START in that era, not if it's the era you are currently in.

I actually wouldn't mind increasing research costs a bit.

The line you are talking about in the revolution mod defines gamespeedmod as 300/(GrowthPercent + TrainPercent + ConstructPercent) revolution mod scaling. This is used as a multiplier for revolution factors. Decreasing ConstructPercent to 80 only increases that factor by 9%.

 

[Vokarya]

One more thing: is there a separate place in the DLL code that switches over animal spawning to barbarian spawning? I noticed <bNoAnimals> is set to 1 starting in the Classical Era and I think animals should continue to spawn until the Medieval. That way you get a little more chance to hunt. But I don't know if just setting <bNoAnimals> to 0 is enough.

 

[<Nexus>]

One more thing: is there a separate place in the DLL code that switches over animal spawning to barbarian spawning? I noticed <bNoAnimals> is set to 1 starting in the Classical Era and I think animals should continue to spawn until the Medieval. That way you get a little more chance to hunt. But I don't know if just setting <bNoAnimals> to 0 is enough.

I think I tried that and worked for me, but not 100% sure. C2C CIV4EraInfos is also set up like that.
Give it a test: Start a game in Medieval and let it autoplay for a couple of turns. That should reveal its secrets.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

One more thing: is there a separate place in the DLL code that switches over animal spawning to barbarian spawning? I noticed <bNoAnimals> is set to 1 starting in the Classical Era and I think animals should continue to spawn until the Medieval. That way you get a little more chance to hunt. But I don't know if just setting <bNoAnimals> to 0 is enough.

It should be enough, IIRC I tested it months ago and it works exactly like that.

I actually wouldn't mind increasing research costs a bit.

The only problem with this is that right now AI is barely able to research all techs before the last turn, in standard conditions. I fear that increasing research times AI will have a harder time keeping up with human players.

 

[Arakhor]

It's been a while (to say the least), but I've currently downloading the latest SVN version to give AND another whirl.

 

[MadCatz]

Whats going on with the new ancient era tech paths, it's so dull now. Can't even change civics until a hundred turns later.

 

[Noyyau]

One more thing: is there a separate place in the DLL code that switches over animal spawning to barbarian spawning? I noticed <bNoAnimals> is set to 1 starting in the Classical Era and I think animals should continue to spawn until the Medieval. That way you get a little more chance to hunt. But I don't know if just setting <bNoAnimals> to 0 is enough.

I remember having looked into extending the animal spawning period, a long time ago. The few notes I've found from back then say that animal spawning (or rather, the beginning of "human" barb spawning) is also controlled by a few lines in civ4handicapinfo.xml (modified for each difficulty level):
<iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed> and <iBarbarianCityCreationTurnsElapsed> being the ones I remember about

http://modiki.civfanatics.com/index.php?title=Civ4HandicapInfo lists them, though doesn't comment much

To be honest I didn't remember if <iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed> controls ALL barb spawning (animals + humans) or only human barb spawning.

So I went and found this comment (from https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...r-cultural-borders.299483/page-2#post-7477646) :

the era of barb animals must be over (NumCities >= 3/2*NumPlayers; GameTurns > Handicap.BarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed * GameSpeed.BarbPercent)

which suggests that <iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed> should control ALL barb spawning.

And then, a few posts later, there's this gem:

Barb Animals start appearing after game turn 5 (hard coded, independent of game speed). As mentioned earlier the game stops spawning them if both of the following two conditions are met:

1. The average number of (non-barb) cities per player must be >= 1.5.
   .
2. A certain number of game turns must have elapsed (depending on difficulty [iBarbarianCreationTurnsElapsed] and game speed [iBarbPercent], marathon is special with 400%).

So in a quick deity game animals are usually only created in just 1 IBT (5->6).

When the era of barb animals is over, the existing creatures are not eradicated in 1 major extinction event. Instead, the game kills off 1 animal per turn until they are all gone and will insert regular barb units (Warriors, Archers, ...) as they are "needed" during the next IBT (can be > 1 unit/turn!, ALL required units are created immediately).

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

That Tag controls both animal and barbarians. Ratio between the two is set in the dll if I'm not mistaken

 

[PsychopathicWarmonger]

Is it normal for AIs to settle their second/third cities 6+ tiles from their capitols? They don't seem to be having any instability issues with these cities either.

 

[<Nexus>]

Is it normal for AIs to settle their second/third cities 6+ tiles from their capitols? They don't seem to be having any instability issues with these cities either.

First of all: What map size?

 

[JUNK de LUXE]

I know this is not pertaining to A New Dawn only but it's the mod where I feel the issue with this forum is most showing.

I find I have increasingly difficulty navigating on this forum. Especially for the later versions of Civ. Old stickied threads, outdated information, links to forum hosted mods, dropbox links, sourceforge etc.. all in all it's a complete mess. I don't think it's because it's a forum (I love the Nexusmods format myself) but rather that the moderation of it is quite dead and/or people in charge come and go and leave the forum and the mods they've been working on in a wonderful mess.

For me at least - a player returning to Civ and modding every now and then - I seem to have to read all the information and sort out all that's old and outdated. I think it could be done better I think

Sorry for the rant - love the mod (when I can get it to work).

 

[Arakhor]

Stickied threads can be easily remedied by moderators.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Stickied threads can be easily remedied by moderators.

While we're on the subject and since Afforess is very rarely around these days, could you please update his post and redirect readers to this subforum? Thank you.

 

[Arakhor]

What would you like it to say?