General A New Dawn discussion

[val3]

Great, thank you!
Also nightly discovered two small things ( but have not saves for now, i'm at work ). Also not sure - is it bug or gameplay change.

1. I have 3 or 4 fights at one turn on one field, but my Field General received only 1 point of exp.
2. My archer(skirmisher) with 0.2 hp was healing on neutral territory ( near enemy borders). I pushed button "fortify while healing" ( don't remember exactly name). But every turn he was asking order. Workers usually doing so, when enemy is nearby. Yes, it was enemy units nearby, but combat units were less nervious in earlier versions.
Also, when it has more then 2.2 hp(2.4, 2.6, ...4), there was strange behaviour: game sometimes showed it as unit with 2.2 hp. Sometimes not.

I have saves and can attach it later, if it is interesting.

 

[Aquila SPQR]

Ok, I uploaded recent save. I used WB to see how world looks like and... well, it's bad. In my world map games there are few AI civs that should be "empires" - China, USA, Japan, India and Russia. In my actual game only India managed to survive and prosper (that's a surprise because in other, previous games, they were usually defeated quite early). All others... It's 700th turn and Russia has only 2 cities (no barbs or wars, they simply didn't build them) and is already surrounded by Assyria, China is smaller and weaker than neighbours even when I showed mercy and gave them archers and settlers via worldbuiler (settlers just stood idle for many turns). USA had only one city for many turns, they were attacked by Aztecs and were on the verge of anihilation so I helped them via WB again... And Japan... At about 650th turn they still go only warriors and one city. I gave them archers and settlers so they built two more cities but... it's not "the Empire" it should be.

I always change a bit xml files to tweak all mods I play to my liking (so I have no idea whether this save will work on your PC), but it's mostly about global warming and lowering a bit build times for eternity speed. So I don't think my tinkering made AI so... dumb - I've been doing it for vanilla and many mods for years and I've never experienced any problems so far. Also GEM has good resources placement so almost every civ have means to develop properly.

Oh, and I also noticed on GEM AI cities (still in ancient or classical age) which have size 20. Is it intended to be like that? Such huge cities so early?

 

[Afforess]

Great, thank you!
Also nightly discovered two small things ( but have not saves for now, i'm at work ). Also not sure - is it bug or gameplay change.

1. I have 3 or 4 fights at one turn on one field, but my Field General received only 1 point of exp.
2. My archer(skirmisher) with 0.2 hp was healing on neutral territory ( near enemy borders). I pushed button "fortify while healing" ( don't remember exactly name). But every turn he was asking order. Workers usually doing so, when enemy is nearby. Yes, it was enemy units nearby, but combat units were less nervious in earlier versions.
Also, when it has more then 2.2 hp(2.4, 2.6, ...4), there was strange behaviour: game sometimes showed it as unit with 2.2 hp. Sometimes not.

I have saves and can attach it later, if it is interesting.

1.) The amount of XP your general can earn per turn is determined by the number of "control" points he has. At the lowest level he only has 5 control points, later promotions unlock more. Basically, this means the GG bonuses from commanding in the field only apply to the first 5 battles he is near a turn, and he only gains XP from those battles. The number of control points and how many are left each turn are somewhere in the unit hover description.

2.) I'll look into it.

 

[nionios]

1, they need different resources. They're meant to give you vulcanized rubber either if you have rubber or you don't.

2, theater will go obsolete so it will not produce culture. Isn't there something else giving some bonus to theater in your case?

3, UN Mission grants eligibility. Usually only 4 biggest civs can be elected as Secretary General. If you build UN Mission you can be elected even if you're the smallest civ.

Thanks for the reply.
Also i want to ask how exactly the "avoid growth" option works.Ok, i understand that it stops population growth but are there any other consequences ?

 

[val3]

1.) The amount of XP your general can earn per turn is determined by the number of "control" points he has. At the lowest level he only has 5 control points, later promotions unlock more. Basically, this means the GG bonuses from commanding in the field only apply to the first 5 battles he is near a turn, and he only gains XP from those battles. The number of control points and how many are left each turn are somewhere in the unit hover description.

Yes, I know it.
He had 1 xp point ( newbie general ) , i've won 3 battles and he earn only one xp point, make him only 2 xp. Units were on the same cells.
So, it seems a bug.

 

[Spirictum]

Thanks for the reply.
Also i want to ask how exactly the "avoid growth" option works.Ok, i understand that it stops population growth but are there any other consequences ?

If the mayor is activated he may change the tiles being worked, and that's all I guess

 

[Noyyau]

In BtS the "avoid growth" actually makes the city not gain a new population point when the food bar is filled, instead remaining there with the food bar filled even if there's surplus food.

Unless this has been changed, it should do the same (haven't used it in AND so I'm not sure).

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

the 1 point experience, is probably because of Fractional experience.

Start at zero, gain .7+.6+.5 and you have 1.8 or 1 experience.

 

[val3]

I am not sure. I don't like fractional experience, it was disabled.
And I supposed that field general has only natural xp.
But on revision 755 all looks fine ( except missing trade routs ), so I think may be that was fixed with those archers bug. If it will be one more time, I'll upload the save.

 

[gay_Aleks]

I just noticed we got moved to a separate forum. Yay.

 

[Spirictum]

I am not sure. I don't like fractional experience, it was disabled.
And I supposed that field general has only natural xp.
But on revision 755 all looks fine ( except missing trade routs ), so I think may be that was fixed with those archers bug. If it will be one more time, I'll upload the save.

BTW Afforess, what happens to iFractionalXP of Standing Army if you disable Fractional XP before beginning the game?

 

[Afforess]

BTW Afforess, what happens to iFractionalXP of Standing Army if you disable Fractional XP before beginning the game?

The game engine always uses fractional XP, even if it is disabled. So it should still work.

The fractional XP option actually toggles fractional XP rewards from combat (where you might get less than 1 XP, but a minimum of 0.25XP. In the code, it's actually called IMPROVED_XP, since that is actually what it does.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Started a new game under 756, MOnarch, Epic, PM map, Lincoln, No Rev, No Inquisitions, No Vassals, Usable Mntns, TD On, No FB, No City limits by Civics, No Realistic Culture Spread, MP and MR, Minimum City tiles, No Nukes, No Adv Econ. etc.

By 534AD I'm down to 3 cities as Boudica and her 13 city empire is flooding me with invaders. I had an isolated start position and had no available Trade partners until 884BC, Boudica of course. At that time I had 5 cities. And my research at 60% was a paltry 28RP/turn. TD kicked in and I started receiving 348RP from TD. By 300 AD I had caught up to Boudica in Tech and had just made contact with Asherpaininthepants. Who introduced me to Cweshstayo (SP) Zulu and Sitting Bull.

BUt shortly there after Boudics DoW'ed me. I held off the 1st invasion because I had Horse archers and 1st Horse cavalry units (a handful in fact) and had just started Catapults. I was still using reg archers because I had not researched Feudalism yet for longbow. I ended up using a Great Diplo to force peace. But 10 turns later she Dow'd again and this time with Sword, Mace, Crossbow and Siege rams. My capital was holding but my satellite cities were under siege and Boston was the 1st to fall. I countered but a new wave of invaders forced me back into my capital and then Philadelphia fell.

So this game is won by the AI as I would have to cheat Big time in WB to even stand a chance.

I did try to bee line Monotheism rright from the stat but still got beat to it by 20 turns, then I beelined Meditation and missed it by 24 turns. After that the gaps in the tech tree had caught up as evidenced by my 28RP when Boudica made 1st contact.

From my point of view there is still a problem with AI leaders being given advantages to getting religions earlier than the player. I also still think the early game has production problems as in taking 24 turns to get Carpentry at the start and the rest of the building with similar or worse build times. Elder Council, if you do not get Trade tech for the +1 RP, is made obsolete by School of Scribes and you Lose 2RP for every EC that goes obsolete from building a SoS. Maybe EC should not go obsolete so early?

Well onward and upward as they say. And as Freddy Mercury of Queen sang," Another one bites the dust and another ones gone..."

JosEPh

 

[os79]

Started a new game under 756, MOnarch, Epic, PM map, Lincoln, No Rev, No Inquisitions, No Vassals, Usable Mntns, TD On, No FB, No City limits by Civics, No Realistic Culture Spread, MP and MR, Minimum City tiles, No Nukes, No Adv Econ. etc.

By 534AD I'm down to 3 cities as Boudica and her 13 city empire is flooding me with invaders. I had an isolated start position and had no available Trade partners until 884BC, Boudica of course. At that time I had 5 cities. And my research at 60% was a paltry 28RP/turn. TD kicked in and I started receiving 348RP from TD. By 300 AD I had caught up to Boudica in Tech and had just made contact with Asherpaininthepants. Who introduced me to Cweshstayo (SP) Zulu and Sitting Bull.

BUt shortly there after Boudics DoW'ed me. I held off the 1st invasion because I had Horse archers and 1st Horse cavalry units (a handful in fact) and had just started Catapults. I was still using reg archers because I had not researched Feudalism yet for longbow. I ended up using a Great Diplo to force peace. But 10 turns later she Dow'd again and this time with Sword, Mace, Crossbow and Siege rams. My capital was holding but my satellite cities were under siege and Boston was the 1st to fall. I countered but a new wave of invaders forced me back into my capital and then Philadelphia fell.

So this game is won by the AI as I would have to cheat Big time in WB to even stand a chance.

I did try to bee line Monotheism rright from the stat but still got beat to it by 20 turns, then I beelined Meditation and missed it by 24 turns. After that the gaps in the tech tree had caught up as evidenced by my 28RP when Boudica made 1st contact.

From my point of view there is still a problem with AI leaders being given advantages to getting religions earlier than the player. I also still think the early game has production problems as in taking 24 turns to get Carpentry at the start and the rest of the building with similar or worse build times. Elder Council, if you do not get Trade tech for the +1 RP, is made obsolete by School of Scribes and you Lose 2RP for every EC that goes obsolete from building a SoS. Maybe EC should not go obsolete so early?

Well onward and upward as they say. And as Freddy Mercury of Queen sang," Another one bites the dust and another ones gone..."

JosEPh

But otherwise a great game! AI is no longer so easy to beat in wartime!

 

[JosEPh_II]

But otherwise a great game! AI is no longer so easy to beat in wartime!

Maybe. I'm not sure I would classify it as great. Great is when you are out numbered But still have a glimmer of hope and then you pull it out.

But...
1.I knew, when I had no neighbors for the 1st 4000 game years, that I was in serious trouble. And then it was compounded by not getting a Religion either on both attempts.

2.I had built 5 of the 1st 10 or so Wonders in the early game, but they All need Trade partners to give any boost to your Empire. But I had no contact with the AI for 4000 game years. That alone was the death sentence for this game.

3.An Isolated empire with a polar/tundra start really has No chance in H E dbl hockey sticks of surviving, whether player or AI. A full 1/3 of my landmass was ice or tundra.

So this game had 3 strikes against it from the get go. A learning experience yes, great game, meh...

JosEPh

 

[os79]

Ok

 

[Spirictum]

@Joseph

At least from defeat you may have learned some more then from a victory. I mean this because I learned a lot from defeat. At first it wasn't my favorite playstyle, but then I started MPing with up to four friends when we gathered at someone's home with all our pcs. They insisted in trying to beat the game at harder levels/settings and we learned a lot from defeat after defeat. I kind of started liking this, so I insisted on it in my SPs nowadays.

Resisting teaches a lot of AI behavior IMO.

And overall Simultaneous Turns are easier then the SP style.

And the last thing I faced on LoR before coming to AND was the Revolution giving me the weapons I needed to win in a situation a lot similar to your american empire now.

I had 10 cities or more already, and Tokugawa came with some 60-80 troops before AD to take my lands because they were too close and he already had conquered some 5-7 civs. He left me with 2 cities, and he took my capital. When I saw his army I simply left the cities for the taking (less IDW influence, more culture remaining for me) and concentrated at my Capital. I tried to trick the AI into going away by putting several troops stacked at the 2 tiles that connected my penninsula to the continent we shared. It wasn't enough, he had 2s in a bunch.

I retreated to a city that was behind some peaks with a 1-tile corridor of connection, with Hills. I took all my troops and put them in this single tile for defense. Then he took everything left and went away, scared by my trick of several troops disconnecting my only continental city left to their landmass (that's what we baptized Shield Glitch, but I'm not sure if someone else had already discovered that before). I kept a second city in a 3-tile island. Besides being OP, he couldn't prefer getting a boat to take my cities then take the rest of the continent just using his land army. And so he went the other way and left me.

This triggered 3 situations that simply turned the game upside down:

- The almost failure of surviving. Because of Revolutions, my cities were simply wanting to destroy my sovereignty. The rebel spirit just didn't stop growing, and I had to spend several bribes on my both cities to try to survive. The last tech I developed was Optics. After it the next tech I developed was something around Flight. What kept me was Tech Diffusion (in LoR you didn't need a research, it simply gave free points sometimes). There was also the firend playing with me - not the most kind and trustworthy friend, but he insisted in keeping me alive with some few tradings. Mostly cleaning the waters from the few boats Tokugawa had with his pirates.

-Revolution! Simply my cities rebelled. Now starts the good part. And you don't know how a rebellion is nice to trigger for you. Depending on the size of your enemy, and the size of the rebellion, you may get Settlers, Great Generals, the Top Troop your enemy can do, the Top Troop you can do, a fully stationed spy ready to do a mission with 50% discount, points against the player, a small amount of turns of that espionage mission that double the espionage costs of the enemy, a discount in Unit Maintenance Cost that is decreased 1/turn until the bonus vanishes and on techs the enemy have. And revolutions on Marathon (1500 turns) normally had a 7 turn period to trigger again. So Infinite army, as long as I could manage to not lose them.

-The OP espionage + revolution device. Pretty simple: When you convert back to a previous civic, worse in stability by far, you normally will have to pay some bribes. In LoR Despotism was simply unbearable. 3 Cities (at minimum range of 4 tiles of capital) on Huge Deity already needed at least 2 troops stationed to not rebel. But when you already have to bribe your cities, and you have only 2 miserable cities that only make wealth and nothing else, there is no additional loss in going back to Despotism. But you would ask why doing that? Despotism is useless in LoR, it's like Barter in AND. But there is a espionage mission called Change Civics. Change Civics change the civis of the other civ to a civic you are using. So that meaned for a small price in a worse stability for at least 5 turns (minimum to change back), which didn't mean any extra debt on my treasure, I could turn a 40 cities Monarchy (still a pain to deal with stability) before AD to Despotism. And I could be worse! I could wait for them to change back, and exactly when they do this I turn them back into Despotism! This means he would suffer the stability penalties of depotism during the anarchy he is facing because he changed civics!


So resuming the story, this with a good management of troops and Generals let me conquer the whole of Japan after 1900, and then conquered the rest of the continent to lose to my friend that had a far superior and shiny story in this game. But it was worthy! I had a SoD stopped for more then 1000 years in the same tile. It was Epic .

And the time when I was conquered seemed pretty similar to your situation with the US on your game.

 

[JosEPh_II]

New game with America again but this time Roosevelt. Again a PM map which seems bound and determined that All America and Native America leaders Must start on a tundra start and/or on a separate landmass than all other Civs. Even with the Map Option on PM's starting location set to Everywhere. That part needs attention on the PM map.

I normally play on a Huge map with 7-10 AI but these last 2 with the newer svn version are on Large setting and 10-12 AI. You would think I would have neighbors on a smaller map with more AI. But the opposite has happened. And this is not from these last 2 games either but seems to be a PM setting that all New World Civs Must get a tundra/isolated start. Blech! I don't have this problem with C2C's PM map in this regard only with AND's version of PM (Perfect Mongoose).

This 2nd game is slightly better in that after again missing Judaism by 24 turns Again! I stopped trying for an early religion and went back to getting a tech line that gives better production and tile usage. It's 127AD and still No foreign contact! But I have 8 cities on this landmass vs 5 on the last game. And I have Copper. Last game had neither copper or iron only obsidian. But this new game has no horse or elephant. Major lack there.

I expect that when I do meet an AI they will have twice the number of cities I have and twice the research lead in techs. Somebody out there is grabbing up those Religions! And it Ain't Me!

And one thing to Remember with All my games, I Never Ever use Rev or Slavery. (sidenote: if I ever get Krome back on it's feet it will be one of the few Mods on CFC that will not have either of those 2 in it.)

JosEPh

 

[os79]

I suggest National Building Brewery be revised because it's basically useless. Only give three Alcohol Beverages for each. And only one Alcoholic Beverage will give one Happiness for entire nation and one Unhealthiness if you build Meeting Hall. Of course you can trade Alcoholic Beverages away. But that's it. If you want to keep it, it's not important. Just wanted to see if anyone have ideas along these lines.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I never understood the +1 it gives Meeting Hall.

JosEPh