General A New Dawn discussion

[Arakhor]

I think Atheist civic should work in an entirely different way: We should have a new (and unique) religion, Atheism that would have no founding tech, no temples, nor missionaries. It would be available by switching to Atheist civic. Once you switch to Atheist civic, your state religion is set to Atheism (and you cannot change it to any other) spreading from your capital to other cities. Atheism could spread to foreign cities as well and when it is spread enough the AI could consider a change.

Atheism should not be a pseudo-religion. It's about the denial of religion, not a cult in itself.

 

[flitz]

Completely unrelated topic: what effect does the Free Trade Agreement have when you are playing without trade routes, i.e. when playing with the connectedness trade system ?

 

[<Nexus>]

Atheism should not be a pseudo-religion. It's about the denial of religion, not a cult in itself.

Monotheism: there's only one God.
Polytheism: there are many deities.
Atheism: there are no deities at all.

So atheism IS a pseudo-religion. It would especially make sense from a game perspective: You are either Hindu or Muslim or Atheist, but only one at the time.

Some mods use the Anti-Clerical name instead of Atheis, as it is more appropriate. After all your gogovernment's goal is not the denial of the existence of any supernatural beings, but to take away the power of the churches.

BTW try googling for Atheist Church. Surprising

 

[Arakhor]

Well, if an atheist civic removes the benefits of religious buildings, forbids setting a state faith and stops non-state faiths spreading, that entirely negates the power of religion without having the uncomfortable idea that you somehow need to spread atheism to all your cities before it takes effect.

 

[jackelgull]

Hey, first time player of your mod, I just want to say great job, I really enjoyed this game and share my first experience here.

So I started out with unrestricted leaders as the Hittites under Cyrus the Great. I played with revolutions on and the minor civ option. Boy was that fun.

Some thoughts:
Chariots- mounted units ruled the world in base BtS and I see that tradition has carried on to here. Especially for the Hittites whose chariot ignores terrain cost. Why? Well what is there to oppose them? The Hittites get them three techs in the tree and at that time there are only javelins or warriors, or other chariots. After a bit there may be slingers, but they are ineffective versus chariots, laughably so. The only stiff resistance the chariot meets is by bronze working, but spearmen can't compete with a shock 2 or 3 chariot (yes I have those by spearmen) in the open field, and in the city, city raider promotions make the spearman's bonus negligible. It is 700 BC right now. I have gotten 2 generals, one's a field commander, one's added to a stack, and have razed so many cities I can't even keep track anymore. I know I destroyed the French civilization, the English civilization, the Mongolian civilization, I might have destroyed the Japanese civilization or merely brought it down to one city. Of course I play noble difficulty, so it may be intended that half a dozen chariots backed by a field general can take down civilizations

Happiness: This was a huge problem for me. For a while, I don't think I ever had a time where my cities were happy. That got better after I built some happiness buildings and monarchy became available.

The Hittites- I have just started playing with these guys, but already I feel them shaping up to become one of my favorite civs. Half a dozen chariot units destroying civiliations is fun, and their UB is awesome.

Civics: To be honest, not really a big fan of these. They felt more like a case of pick your poison than being beneficial, but I'm probably spoiled.

AI: I didn't have any of the special AI options turned on, wanted to see what they were like without those. These AI seem to be either too passive or stupidly aggressive. I have had AI's sit back in their cities as I slaughter their units one by one, have their workers out for me to pick off, or suicide a lone unit in a gamble that will almost never work.

Revolutionary sentiment: Can someone explain to me the difference between local and national rebelliousness?



Finally,what happened to whipping?

 

[Rezca]

Hey, first time player of your mod, I just want to say great job, I really enjoyed this game and share my first experience here.

So I started out with unrestricted leaders as the Hittites under Cyrus the Great. I played with revolutions on and the minor civ option. Boy was that fun.

Some thoughts:
Chariots- mounted units ruled the world in base BtS and I see that tradition has carried on to here. Especially for the Hittites whose chariot ignores terrain cost. Why? Well what is there to oppose them? The Hittites get them three techs in the tree and at that time there are only javelins or warriors, or other chariots. After a bit there may be slingers, but they are ineffective versus chariots, laughably so. The only stiff resistance the chariot meets is by bronze working, but spearmen can't compete with a shock 2 or 3 chariot (yes I have those by spearmen) in the open field, and in the city, city raider promotions make the spearman's bonus negligible. It is 700 BC right now. I have gotten 2 generals, one's a field commander, one's added to a stack, and have razed so many cities I can't even keep track anymore. I know I destroyed the French civilization, the English civilization, the Mongolian civilization, I might have destroyed the Japanese civilization or merely brought it down to one city. Of course I play noble difficulty, so it may be intended that half a dozen chariots backed by a field general can take down civilizations

Happiness: This was a huge problem for me. For a while, I don't think I ever had a time where my cities were happy. That got better after I built some happiness buildings and monarchy became available.

The Hittites- I have just started playing with these guys, but already I feel them shaping up to become one of my favorite civs. Half a dozen chariot units destroying civiliations is fun, and their UB is awesome.

Civics: To be honest, not really a big fan of these. They felt more like a case of pick your poison than being beneficial, but I'm probably spoiled.

AI: I didn't have any of the special AI options turned on, wanted to see what they were like without those. These AI seem to be either too passive or stupidly aggressive. I have had AI's sit back in their cities as I slaughter their units one by one, have their workers out for me to pick off, or suicide a lone unit in a gamble that will almost never work.

Revolutionary sentiment: Can someone explain to me the difference between local and national rebelliousness?



Finally,what happened to whipping?

1. Field Commanders are supremely unbalanced and are borerline Multiplayer-only because switching this option on cripples the AI since they have absolutely no idea how to use these units - let alone the promotions the Commanders get. I've seen them with half a dozen of these commanders huddled up in a city with no promotions, use them as scouts, or just have them wander around aimlessly in their territory - meanwhile you just need one decently promoted Commander to become virtually untouchable on the field. Keep this in mind


2. Previously it was almost unheard of to see an unhappy city in your nation, especially once the game started progressing a bit. Recent revisions added a few new Unhappiness items into the game and those are still being balanced.


3. Not much more to say on this one


4. They've all got their uses, some more than others. Republic is mostly geared for small ( less than 10 cities) nations, but with some clever empire management I've been able to make use of it with 30 ~ 40 cities and still making a decent research and income rate
It takes some time to figure which ones you'll be using and in what cases, but there's not really any (other than possibly Chiefdom and Barter) that are completely useless, and few that could be considered the "one right civic to use" (Possible exception being Post-Scarcity) There's a time and a place for everything, so they say


5. AI's also in the works, and right now we're experiencing issues with the AI attacking with only one unit every turn when sieging cities or attacking in the field. I know they'll attack with lone siege units frequently, and the Workers just sitting there? Known issue for hundreds of revisions now. At least now they'll duck for cover if you wait another turn, if you feel generous enough to give them that long


6. I'm not fully sure of it myself, but Local seems to be on a per-city basis while Empire is a global modifier? Someone else would have to comment on this one, sorry!


7. Slavery whipping's been absent for like, ever. It was hidden because the AI was shooting itself in the foot with it to a terrifying amount.




On another note, I just had the earliest war declaration on me yet and had my 'Free Galley' for researching Sailing....... Pop up in a landlocked city



Also the ending to my last game. Only seven cities built - the rest were taken via conquest!

Near the end Russia declared war on me for some reason. A few units (Mech.Infantry, Marines...) spawned for me near a border city of his and it was undergoing constant revolutions, so I'm guessing he picked the 'Declare war on them' option finally. His loss, since after I got my forces over there I captured the city, and then proceeded to wipe him out, sometimes capturing a city or two PER TURN until the game ended. Stealth Bombers, ACV and SAM ACV's, Siege Droids... Against Modern Marines and Mechanized Infantry. Yeah. Some of the cities were empty when my troops got to them because of the aerial bombing
Even down to two cities he refused to make peace.
I relieved him of them on the following turn

 

[nionios]

How I can get rid of the city radius of 3?
I decided to start a new game without enabling the initial option "Larger cities".I missed the old days of Civilization and hoped to play a "traditional" 2 tile radius game .But once I built Metropolitan Administration in 25-population cities the 3 tiles appeared again.The popup window for this option says that allows for 3 radius when the city reaches the Influential culture level so I now realize that it's not an option to completely remove the 3 radius.

 

[Arakhor]

Wouldn't the obvious option be not to build the Metropolitan Admin building then?

 

[nionios]

Wouldn't the obvious option be not to build the Metropolitan Admin building then?

Of course but I initially thought that by building the MA and having disabled "Larger cities" the +3 radius wouldn't be in effect.
Also the building gives other benefits so you cannot ignore it, just for gameplay reasons.

 

[Rezca]

Of course but I initially thought that by building the MA and having disabled "Larger cities" the +3 radius wouldn't be in effect.
Also the building gives other benefits so you cannot ignore it, just for gameplay reasons.

Larger Cities just allows a city to increase to 3 tiles automatically once its cultural level is sufficient without needing to actually build the Administration first. I don't think there's a way to fully remove the 3 tile radius, but not many cities will end up working that anyway. Isn't the MA a national wonder, and thus only one city per nation will ever have such an influence?

 

[Vokarya]

Larger Cities just allows a city to increase to 3 tiles automatically once its cultural level is sufficient without needing to actually build the Administration first. I don't think there's a way to fully remove the 3 tile radius, but not many cities will end up working that anyway. Isn't the MA a national wonder, and thus only one city per nation will ever have such an influence?

Capital Administration is the National Wonder. Metropolitan Administration is just the top level of the Village Hall line.

I think the 3-tile radius can be removed from the XML (as long as Larger Cities is NOT on). At line 100680 of Civ4BuildingInfos.xml is:

<iWorkableRadius>3</iWorkableRadius>

Change the 3 to 2 and that should do it, but it has to be done for Capital Administration as well unless that is wanted (it's at line 100762). Those are the only two places in the entire file where <iWorkableRadius> is used.

 

[Rezca]

I've come to accept this pathfinding oddity as a part of AND and so it rarely comes off as seeming out of place anymore. Still, there are times...



(And no, there isn't anything blocking the Caravel's path in that one-tile wide strip of unrevealed map )



Also, this game has been PLAGUED with revolutions - every nation has had at least one, numerous new nations have been spawned, and there's been over a dozen Revolutions worldwide in the past four or five turns. I should have nabbed that screenshot of six revolutions popping up in one turn

Which has resulted in some colorful borders in some regions!




As for this... Well, Korea's capitol was nearly 20 tiles to the east, this city being completely cut off from their nation. Wonderful spot for a city by the way

 

[nionios]

Capital Administration is the National Wonder. Metropolitan Administration is just the top level of the Village Hall line.

I think the 3-tile radius can be removed from the XML (as long as Larger Cities is NOT on). At line 100680 of Civ4BuildingInfos.xml is:

<iWorkableRadius>3</iWorkableRadius>

Change the 3 to 2 and that should do it, but it has to be done for Capital Administration as well unless that is wanted (it's at line 100762). Those are the only two places in the entire file where <iWorkableRadius> is used.

I've just removed the whole line <iWorkableRadius>3</iWorkableRadius> and it's OK.Of course I don't play with "Larger cities".

 

[Rezca]

With the Blarney Castle, what was the average timeframe between event triggerings again? Something like 10 turns on Normal Speed?

Asking because Zulu just built the thing and the event has fired every single turn since then (on Normal speed).

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I've come to accept this pathfinding oddity as a part of AND and so it rarely comes off as seeming out of place anymore. Still, there are times...



(And no, there isn't anything blocking the Caravel's path in that one-tile wide strip of unrevealed map [emoji14] )



Also, this game has been PLAGUED with revolutions - every nation has had at least one, numerous new nations have been spawned, and there's been over a dozen Revolutions worldwide in the past four or five turns. I should have nabbed that screenshot of six revolutions popping up in one turn [emoji38]

Which has resulted in some colorful borders in some regions!




As for this... Well, Korea's capitol was nearly 20 tiles to the east, this city being completely cut off from their nation. Wonderful spot for a city by the way [emoji38]

How many revolutions have you experienced in the same time-frame? Have you changed any revolution parameter from default? I fear that despite current parameters, revolutions are either too strong for AI or too weak for humans.

By the way, I've discovered why voluntary vassals were never breaking free from humans and this will be fixed in next release.

 

[Arakhor]

By the way, I've discovered why voluntary vassals were never breaking free from humans and this will be fixed in next release.

Woo!

 

[Rezca]

How many revolutions have you experienced in the same time-frame? Have you changed any revolution parameter from default? I fear that despite current parameters, revolutions are either too strong for AI or too weak for humans.

By the way, I've discovered why voluntary vassals were never breaking free from humans and this will be fixed in next release.

*Edit, Forgot to add, no I haven't changed the Rev settings any.*

Earlier in the game, it was pretty much the same for me. Nation kept demanding that I cede control to another leader for a timeframe (And after the AI ruined my nation the last time, I realized just how much this option was a "Free Instability in Every City!" thing that you should never ever agree to ), after Flexible Difficulty lowered me down from Emperor to Warlord I managed to slowly slip out of that, and even after it raised me back up many turns later, I haven't had any revolutions - except for in Justinian's cities I took from him, but even those petered out after a while.


Looking at the landscape and the lovely choices for off-continent cities the AI have been picking, I'm guessing it's all the settling overseas that is causing the AI to have revolutions every turn. Though, Justinian and Suravarman had some rough goings in the early years too. England as well, but unlike the Byzatnine and Khemer they fought off their Revolutions just fine. Justinian ended up spawning TWO nations, and the Khemer had been warring almost endlessly with the nation they spawned. Things have mostly quieted down since then though.


Attaching a savegame though if you'd like to take a look for yoruself. Maybe you'll spot something I haven't. The Dutch just planted a city in the icy tundra southwest of England, and Khemer has two cities way to the southeast as well. These cities have been spawning barbarians frequently, but their core cities are fairly stable from what (little) I've seen.

*Edit 2 - for good measure, going to add in the Initial Save as well. Maybe the game might end up producing a less volatile world the second time around?
The only changes I made between the Initial Save and the game start were moving some AI out of tundra-locked regions (I didn't catch Alexander down in the tundra though until way into the game), putting a few extra tiles of land to a few spots, and adding some resources to some of the lesser-off AI's like England.

 

[Vokarya]

With the Blarney Castle, what was the average timeframe between event triggerings again? Something like 10 turns on Normal Speed?

Asking because Zulu just built the thing and the event has fired every single turn since then (on Normal speed).

It's supposed to trigger every 50 turns, scaled by game speed. There was a bug that caused it to go off every turn if Time Victory was disabled, but that was fixed in rev 817. I tried a game myself with the most recent revision and it worked properly (WB the Castle on turn 145, WB peace to one civ, event triggers at turn 150 with that one civ; it doesn't trigger every turn).

 

[Rezca]

It's supposed to trigger every 50 turns, scaled by game speed. There was a bug that caused it to go off every turn if Time Victory was disabled, but that was fixed in rev 817. I tried a game myself with the most recent revision and it worked properly (WB the Castle on turn 145, WB peace to one civ, event triggers at turn 150 with that one civ; it doesn't trigger every turn).

I've got Time Victory disabled, but it's going off every turn for me

 

[Slarki]

How about a developer here opens a thread and if anyone notices any change to the core gameplay compared to the vanilla which isn't explained by a button or text box, he could post it. The recommended settings in the other hand can be just put in with the next update to AND

Anything which speaks against this idea?