German flag

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Just German-Russians are disliked by both nations.

The understatement of the year.

 

[Communisto]

Really? I always thought that Germans and Russians didn't like each other, and they always saw Poland as the inferior people in the middle. After hearing this, I can't help but say that the other people should forget about it. I am part German and I'm not ashamed of my roots. As an American, I don't even think about what Japan did to Pearl Harbor, never. People need to forget about the war, and go on with their lives! Flag waving is cool, and the Germans have all the rights to do it. People need to think about all the good Germans and Japanese have done too.

we shouldn't forget about the war, we should just treat people for what they are, not what hapened. I think the reason so many people think about the bad because the second world war wasn't that long ago, do you treat French people bad 'cause Napoleon raped Europe? (Bad example ). In 100 years no one will think the way people do now.

 

[luiz]

Come for the soccer WM and you'll find out yourself...

I plan on going and watch my nation beating yours - again

As for your other comments, I agree. Germans are surprisingly nice. But then again my grandfather is german so I'm a bit biased here.

 

[wit>trope]

i dont see why germans shouldnt be proud of their country

also, german food is good, i think youre thinking about england

That's what I said. I said that german food was very good.

 

[wit>trope]

I really think the US should change their flag to a 50-star Confederate flag. The US flag is THE ugliest flag I have ever seen, whereas the Confederate one was among the best.

I agree the Confederate flag looks prettier. I don't think people would go for changing the design of the flag though because of tradition and also anti-Southern prejudice. I don't think the US flag is the ugliest ...

 

[YNCS]

At one time the Germans were warlike and mean
But that couldn't happen again.
We taught them a lesson in Nineteen-Eighteen
And they've hardly bothered us since then.

Tom Lehrer, MLF Lullaby​

 

[Sims2789]

I came across this article which quoted a German saying:

"I go abroad and feel uncomfortable to say I am German. We cannot wave our flags the way other countries do. Maybe today can be a step toward changing this."

It also quoted a German saying that there was still "prejudices" in the world, i.e. against Germans. Some may find it ironic that a German would complain about prejudice given German history. What do you think?

As for me I am pro-German. Even though the German language is not pretty as a German in the article ackwowledges: "His name sounds more beautiful in Italian"; it is also true that German food is very good

Seriously, don't you think it is wrong to shame Germans and prevent them from waving the German flag? I feel the same way about US Southernors and their historic Confederate flag.

Germans Reserved About Their Joy Over 'Benedikt'
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-scene25apr25,1,7334621.story

The German flag is different from the Nazi flag.

What's ironic is that the racism towards Germans due to their racism in the past is exactly what the author is complaining about. Everyone should listen to him.

 

[Mungaf]

I find that Germany is a great country, one of the richest, most productive, and most free in the world. Munich is perhaps the most livable city I have ever seen, with the exception of Vancouver. (My guess is that the east looks rather different.)

However, the self-hatred that they seem to facilitate has gone way overboard. Militarism and the Holocaust are far in the past, and loosening hate speech laws and lightening up on the Holocaust memorials won't sweep neo-nazis into power again. Even nuclear power bans seem to stem from this. Think of sauerbraten, Beethoven, and Kant when you think of Germany, not the goose stepping and the gas chambers. The former is ultimately what survived.

 

[Reno]

I find that Germany is a great country, one of the richest, most productive, and most free in the world.

More then correct.

My guess is that the east looks rather different.

It does, but now that both West-Germany and East-Germany are united. The economical situation in Germany is bound to get better.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

This tells a lot IMHO:

The blue-and-white checkered flag of Bavaria, the pope's home state, was far more in evidence than the red, yellow and black of Germany.

(from that article)

See, for decades the German flag was only waved by football hooligans, militarists, and the NPD/Republikaner. Not talking about the official use of the flag, but if someoen had a German flag on his roof, you could be sure he was member of one of those groups.
This did change radically with the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 - but 'elder' Germans are still reluctant to wave that flag. Not because they are ashamed of being German, but because that flag was occupied by the wrong groups for a long time...

The Bavarian history isn't that great - Hitler started his career in Munich after all, and the Kingdom of Bavaria was pretty aggressive as well, or run by completely rulers like Ludwig II, who may have be responsible for *cough* interesting castles and Wagner, but was also very disdainful about the common people.
Still, nobody sees anything wrong with waving the Bavarian flag (well, nobody except Franconians, but that's a topic for its own ).

 

[Reno]

rulers like Ludwig II, who may have be responsible for *cough* interesting castles

Wasn't he declared insane by his own government, for spending too much money on those very same castles?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Well, he was declared insane because they wanted to get rid of them. "They" = the other members of the house of Wittelsbach, the Bavarian government. NOT the people of Bavaria, who did see the "Kini" as a mythological king, and loved him...which is completely whacko, since hardly any monarch of that time did less for and cared less about his people. For example, he travelled one single time in its entire ruling time through Bavaria...

It needs to be mentioned that the costs for those castles were 'peanuts'. He was by no means paying them from the Bavarian etat, but by his own rent; and the final clash was about a guarntee for 6 million marks the Bavarian gov refused to give (while the surplus in that year was about 160 millions).

Now, was he really insane? Most likely not. He was always described as polite, contained, by no means in touch with reality - but that is rather typical for a monarch at that time. Maybe hmosexual, and highly romantic. Well, sounds more like Prince Charles (minus the gay part) than like Caligula to me .

But of course he also was completely incapable and uninterested of actively ruling a country. If he would have been lucky enough to assign an outstanding statesman as Bavarian Prime Minister, I'd guess he would be remembered as one of the most outstanding rulers, in a positive meaning.

Btw, Bismarck had a pretty high opinion of Ludwig (who managed to haggle for quite a number of privileges for Bavaria during the 1871 unification negotiations); this tells a lot IMHO.

 

[Reno]

It needs to be mentioned that the costs for those castles were 'peanuts'.

Yes, yes. But that was one of the "official" reasons, why they declared him insane.

 

[carlosMM]

Btw, Bismarck had a pretty high opinion of Ludwig (who managed to haggle for quite a number of privileges for Bavaria during the 1871 unification negotiations); this tells a lot IMHO.

Best ot all, and quite typical for him though: part of the payment for the secret treaty had to be made in...


sweets!

he had a sweet tooth (actually ALL his teeth had rotted away due to his eating habits) and he wanted sweets more than money

not so much insane as more likely just a bit childish and a dreamer. A smart one, though!

 

[Verbose]

A German Whacko-Jacko...

 

[kronic]

The Bavarian history isn't that great - Hitler started his career in Munich after all, and the Kingdom of Bavaria was pretty aggressive as well, or run by completely rulers like Ludwig II, who may have be responsible for *cough* interesting castles and Wagner, but was also very disdainful about the common people.
Still, nobody sees anything wrong with waving the Bavarian flag (well, nobody except Franconians, but that's a topic for its own ).

I do. I hate this nasty particularism. I also think that our extreme particularism is one of the reasons for our extreme nationalism in the 19th and 20th century. The Holy Roman Empire and thus the German particularism prevented us from forming a normal nation state.

 

[Hitro]

I do. I hate this nasty particularism. I also think that our extreme particularism is one of the reasons for our extreme nationalism in the 19th and 20th century. The Holy Roman Empire and thus the German particularism prevented us from forming a normal nation state.

What the hell is a "normal" nation state? France? The United States? Both certainly are nation states and both certainly are quite different, especially when it comes to their history and how they "evolved". So which of the two is "normal" and which isn't?

As already said by E-Raser flag waving is quite stupid in general, no matter who waves which flag.

But besides that there's also the aspect of association that Tsiolkovski mentioned. There's indeed been alot of change over the last 15 years but still I think there's alot of association between (national) flag waving and being a nationalist.
The generation younger than myself will probably never really see it that way.
Can't say I really like that, though...

When it comes to Bavarian and other state or local flags I agree that that is a bit different, specifically because those aren't that much associated with certain leanings than the national flag.

And btw, I love the German language.

Same for me. The language, not the state or the flag, is the integral part of our heritage I want to see preserved.

 

[Reno]

Same for me. The language, not the state or the flag, is the integral part of our heritage I want to see preserved.

Genau.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Germany has gone a long way since the days of the Nazi state. The flag of Germany looks nothing like the Nazi flag, so I fail to see how waving it could be looked upon badly. Wave away!

 

[Reno]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Germany has gone a long way since the days of the Nazi state. The flag of Germany looks nothing like the Nazi flag, so I fail to see how waving it could be looked upon badly. Wave away!

Sadly your point of wiev is not shared by many people in say France, UK or US.